High Speed
Williams, 1986Looking good so far. There are so many counterfeit 6821 PIA parts out there now that is hard to find ones that work for long periods of time. Some even come DOA.
I suggest the CMOS replacement W65C21N parts now. They have been used on Alltek boards for several years already.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Looking good so far. There are so many counterfeit 6821 PIA parts out there now that is hard to find ones that work for long periods of time. Some even come DOA.
I suggest the CMOS replacement W65C21N parts now. They have been used on Alltek boards for several years already.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Western-Design-Center-WDC/W65C21N6TPG-14?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsYdxaYtmOicSRUuPiX8JOOK7wq7kYBX3Y%3D
That's exactly what I ordered after doing some research on the Mouser site. I ordered two and replaced the one nearest the battery pack. I'm waiting for a Test ROM before replacing anymore.
So far I replaced 80 parts on this board and I hope the end is near as far as replacement goes. Getting itchy to put it back in the machine. Today I'll do the test on U11 and U13 since I have replacements on hand. Is it accurate to test them in the board?
Are there any other chips that can be tested like that (in the board with a DMM diode tester)?
Here's a picture of the completed cleanup of the battery alkaline problem.
IMG_4760 (resized).JPGQuoted from Dennis33:I'll do the test on U11 and U13 since I have replacements on hand. Is it accurate to test them in the board?
I think testing them on the board is the best accurate test. If they are already soldered in the board, I would not risk damaging the parts removing them. How else do you plan on testing them off the board?
Quoted from Dennis33:I'm working my way over to the RESET circuit. I ran out of Superwick, otherwise I would have finished with the cleaning process.
At what time should I put a protective coating (clear nail polish) on the board? I assume before putting the components back, but do I stay away from the "thru-holes"?
[quoted image]
Looking good!
The nail polish over the through holes won't matter. Solder will melt it when you solder in New parts!
Quoted from PinballManiac40:I think testing them on the board is the best accurate test. If they are already soldered in the board, I would not risk damaging the parts removing them. How else do you plan on testing them off the board?
Same way. With a diode tester. I have just tested (on the board) U11, U13 and U40 (all 74LS244) and all pins are within the .4 to .6v range except Pin 1 and Pin 19 which show .001v. A brand new off the board has .4 to .6v on every pin.
Then I tested the PAI's. A brand new off the board one has .6+- on every pin. A brand new W65C21N(same as the off the board one)just installed at U41 has pin 20 at .25v and pin 39 at .25v. The following anomalies (compared to the off the board chip) were found also...
U9 pin [email protected]
U10 [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] [email protected]
U38 [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] [email protected]
U42 18@,.725v, [email protected], [email protected] [email protected]
U51 [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
U52 [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Is it possible that most of these are bad?
Quoted from Dennis33:Same way. With a diode tester. I have just tested (on the board) U11, U13 and U40 (all 74LS244) and all pins are within the .4 to .6v range except Pin 1 and Pin 19 which show .001v. A brand new off the board has .4 to .6v on every pin.
Then I tested the PAI's. A brand new off the board one has .6+- on every pin. A brand new W65C21N(same as the off the board one)just installed at U41 has pin 20 at .25v and pin 39 at .25v. The following anomalies (compared to the off the board chip) were found also...
U9 pin [email protected]
U10 [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] [email protected]
U38 [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] [email protected]
U42 18@,.725v, [email protected], [email protected] [email protected]
U51 [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
U52 [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Is it possible that most of these are bad?
Check the schematic for the U11, U13 and U40 as the pins you question likely are tied to ground.
Thanks PinballManiac40
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Check the schematic for the U11, U13 and U40 as the pins you question likely are tied to ground.
They do, so they are probably good. I do have replacements and sockets for 11 and 13 but I'll keep them in my spare parts pile for now!
I'll start looking at the PAI's on the schematic for the same situation if my eyes can take it!
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Get a magnifying glass or take a picture and zoom in on it.
I always have a magnifier next to me when I solder to check my work. I also stack glasses...like my everyday progressive pair that I always have on , I'll put a pair of 2.50x readers right in front of them on my nose and I can get 5-6 inches from the board and see like I was 25 again!
Zooming in a grainy picture makes it grainer (the pictures I found online are grainy).
I checked the PAI's with my DDM to see which ones go to ground and it looks like U51 with pin 9 going to 0v could mean a replacement is needed, I think.
Thanks again for the help!
If that is the original MPU, then you also can use the Road Kings schematic.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/1970/Williams_1986_Road_Kings_Manual.pdf
U51 pin 9 is grounded via W7 jumper that is installed. So there is no issue there. If you just put the meter on ohms, it would show shorted to ground, which is right.
I would go ahead and try the board in the game. You only need to plug in 1J17 if you want to test to see if the board boots up. Left 5v LED should be on solid and the diagnostic LED should be flashing at a fast rate. If it blinks once a second, then that would be an error code.
Thanks PinballManiac40
My board has the numeric display not the LED's. Maybe I should put it back in the game to see if there is any difference from before the battery cleanup and IC replacements. I think you convinced me to do it as soon as I finish putting in the LED lamps under the playfield. Probably tomorrow!
U51 pin 9 is grounded on all MPU versions.
Yes. Put it in and test it. Just as I mentioned apply power only first just to see if the boots up. No need to go through and connect everything up if it doesn't even boot
OK, @pinballmaniac40,
So, I put the board in the High Speed and connected 1J17, flipped on the power and the diagnostic display immediately displayed "0". Now I want to connect everything, but not sure if there's a better plan. Is there a certain order that I can connect things, one or two at a time, apply power, check the diagnostic code, then do more and so on?
I made so many changes on the board that I'm being paranoid.
Am I being too cautious or just go for it all?
Just because we know you worked on the coil section that burned, I would connect everything except the bottom 2 left connectors, IJ11 and IJ12, which drive the coils. Boot it up now. Hopefully all the segments on the displays, switches, and sound/music all work.
If everything seems to work, then plug in IJ11 and IJ12 and listen carefully, with the playfield in the up position, for any locked on coils.
Good luck.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Just because we know you worked on the coil section that burned, I would connect everything except the bottom 2 left connectors, IJ11 and IJ12, which drive the coils. Boot it up now. Hopefully all the segments on the displays, switches, and sound/music all work.
If everything seems to work, then plug in IJ11 and IJ12 and listen carefully, with the playfield in the up position, for any locked on coils.
Good luck.
I did follow what you suggested, everything looked good and when I eventually plugged in 1J11 and 1J12, the right flippers stopped after several flips. The 1.25A SB fuse SS6 on my Solenoid Saver (thanks Andrew) blew. Not having any spares I put in a 1A FB and it immediately blew when I pushed the right button.
The sound is great and the display works just like it used to. However the match and ball display is not working. Otherwise, it is exciting to see some life in this great machine.
Thanks for your time helping me!
It probably needs the 1.25A fuse to keep from blowing right away.
On top of that, usually a bad flipper EOS switch causes the flipper fuse to blow after a while because the high voltage to the flipper is staying on.
Use your ohm meter to be sure the EOS is measuring less than one ohm when it is closed. Some reason, new EOS switches have a clear coating on some contacts so you would need to wear it down a bit
While waiting for my 1.25A SB fuses to arrive tomorrow, I checked out the EOS switches as PinballManiac40 suggested, checked the coils, and diodes. Everything looked good. Then I saw a light bulb that I forgot to replace with a LED behind that capacitor. When I reached behind it, the exposed lead may have been touching the light socket! I repositioned the CAP and will have to wait until tomorrow to see if it was actually touching, which would have caused the problem.
Thanks again.
After moving the CAP away from the lamp socket
IMG_4887 (resized).JPG
This picture reminds me to put in the new diodes on the right flipper coils now!
Well, I'm also working on a United Shuffle Bowler and I just finished replacing every part on the power supply board (except for four parts). As I was putting it back into the machine I realized I had put in the Solenoid Saver in that one too. So, I took out a 1.25A fuse from it and put it in the HS. I flipped for about 5 to 10 flips and it blew again. Back to square one.
One other problem is the pop bumpers and the slingshots don't work for a while, like less than a minute, then everything works great (except for the right flippers, of course). I played with only one flipper for a few games and it plays great. The LED's look fantastic, and the sound is awesome. Just like I remember it.
Another thing is I can't get into test mode with the buttons on the door. One time I was able to get to the music test but couldn't get to anything else.
Time to test the ohms on the EOS switch on the right flippers to make sure they do close shorted (less than one ohm).
Quoted from Dennis33:Another thing is I can't get into test mode with the buttons on the door. One time I was able to get to the music test but couldn't get to anything else.
I think you may have your 1J13 and 1J14 mixed up on your MPU board. The connector with all (3 or 4 I forget) black wires should be at 1J13, which I believe the board has labeled as GND.
I do have the black wire connector into J13. I even labeled both of those two connectors as "upper" and "lower" before removing them.
I also did check the EOS on all the flippers and was getting around 0.1 - 0.2 Ohms when the switch is closed.
Thanks PinballManiac40 for all your time and help. I'm quite happy that I'v gotten this far following the major rebuild on the MPU and replacing parts on all of the other boards. Before that the machine was dead. I couldn't have gotten to this point without the help and encouragement of this community. I'm sure there is an answer to these final few nagging problems.
Sure. I can try. I usually bench test boards until they pass my bench 100% before trying anything in a machine but I understand that's not always possible for most people.
The diagnostic switch circuit is documented on page 46 of the manual. Focus on the section at the right with the WHT/GRN/BLU wires for "advance" and "auto/manual". If you short pins 2 and 3 of 1J14 on the CPU board you should enter one of the diagnostic modes. The mode you enter depends on the state of the "auto/manual" latching switch.
For the switched (special) solenoids you should check the switch that triggers the solenoid works by grounding the appropriate pin on 1J19. The order isn't a straight 1-1 so you need to consult the manual to ensure the correct pin(s) to ground. The switch may also be shorted that would cause the switched solenoid to fire.
I would first try to get into diagnostic mode because you really need to use the software to help troubleshoot. It's much easier.
Quoted from Dennis33:I flipped for about 5 to 10 flips and it blew again. Back to square one.
Something not adding up correctly. The flipper power should not go thru the Solenoid saver fuse board. Should come from the flipper power supply. Also a 1.25 amp fuse will not be large enough for the 2 right flipper coils.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:dennis33 can you post a picture of the Solenoid saver board
He may have not wired the connector correctly and has the two flipper returns running thru the fuses instead of two of 2 of the special solenoids.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:What Grumpy brought up, I did not consider.
This is why I get the BIG bucks! 
Quoted from GRUMPY:He may have not wired the connector correctly and has the two flipper returns running thru the fuses instead of two of 2 of the special solenoids.
I can see that is possible.
The only Solenoid Saver board I know is available is for system 3 to 7, which would only be wired up for that board set so it would not be universal wiring for a system 11 game.
Definately some miss wiring since the 2 orange wires should.be side by side.
Can you post a link to the kit you bought?
Quoted from Dennis33:OH, Ignore the missing fuse since I'm waiting for today's delivery of new ones. Could I use a 4A SB in that instead of the 1.25A for those flippers. Is it as simple as that?
No, there is only 6 fuses holders for 6 SS coils.
Sure, it's Pinball Electronics... https://nvram.weebly.com/repair--conversion-kits.html
And there's some explanation of using it on System 11's here... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-system-11-bullet-proofing-thread/page/2#post-4557364
I just put it in without any changes to the wiring. I figured it's just extra fuse protection and wouldn't hurt anything. Maybe I figured wrong.
I'll be on the road for a few hours, be back after 2pm.
Thanks again for all your help. I hope you guys are around when I try to power up my United Supreme Bowler in the near future.
Its tough to see your wire colors with the shadows and the fact you reused colors, but Grumpys on the right track. Your sss board is installed incorrectly and the bottom wiring is reversed.
Looks like you need to unplug the top connector and desolder your wires on the bottom. Rotate the board 180 degrees, then reconnect the bottom wires in the same order you had them in (which will end up being reversed since the board was flipped). The wires will look the same as your pic but the board will be flipped.
The orange flipper wires should pass through the board 'unfused'.
Sounds like an easy fix but let me get this straight. I should do the following...
Wire # Goes Into
1----------9
2----------8
3----------7
4----------6
5 N/A
6----------4
7----------3
8----------2
9----------1
If so, I'll heat up the soldering iron and get to work ASAP.
I didn't notice while looking at the board, but F2 looks a little toasted in the picture, when the original problem was F6 (which I just replaced). I haven't turned on the machine since yesterday.
IMG_4898 (resized).JPG
Quoted from Dennis33:Wait! If the top orange wires need to pass thru unfused, shouldn't the top plug be reversed too? Changing just the bottom doesn't change the path from the top into the solenoid board (thru the fuses).
you have your 1 and only header on the wrong end of the board, eg currently the header is on the output not the input. That's why your wiring is out.
How stupid of me to not realize that! So move the header down so that the orange wires are going into 8 & 9. Then move the wires up so that orange wire lines up with the #9 pin and everything else falls in place. Correct? Now I think I understand what everyone else is saying.
I'm heating up the iron with solder wick in hand. Then dinner, a few beers (which is when I stop playing with tools and electricity) and watch some TV. I'll install it in the morning.
Thanks again for all your patience and help.
I suggest disconnecting that board for now and see how the game works. That way you can test out your work that you did on the mpu board and then you can enjoy some games before tackling this last problem.
I always tell people to make sure you get the game working 100% before adding any mods. It makes it easier to know when you introduce a problem when you add something new into the game
Thank-you everybody for their help!
Everything works great now except 2 minor problems. The lowest pop bumper(lower left SOL-4) blows the 1.25A fuse on the Solenoid Saver board. I'm glad I have it in my machine. It's the fuse that is tied to the blue/yellow wire which I traced to the pop bumper. I checked the diode on the coil and the switch which were both fine. I also checked the resistance of the coil and compared it to the other and they are all the same range 3.8-4.0 ohms. I'm fine playing without that working bumper, for now.
The other thing is the test/diagnostic buttons not working. If I put it in Auto and push the Advance I get the Music Test but can't get to anything else just music until I turn off the machine. I'm not getting my money's worth with 3-ball games! Five ball play would be nice.
I very happy to have gotten to this point and am very satisfied to have a playable High Speed once again! But, of course, everyone wants a perfectly playable pinball game. So close!
Quoted from Dennis33:The other thing is the test/diagnostic buttons not working. If I put it in Auto and push the Advance I get the Music Test but can't get to anything else just music
That is a bit different than the diagnostic buttons not working at all. That menu is designed different than you would expect it to be done. This is from the manual and pretty much all system 11 games similar.
You press the MANUAL button down to enter the diagnostic menu. Press MANUAL again (up position) in order to continue through the menu past the music test.
Quoted from GRUMPY:Does the pop fuse burn when you turn on the power switch or when you start a game?
@grumpy, it pops when the ball hits it a few times.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:You press the MANUAL button down to enter the diagnostic menu. Press MANUAL again (up position) in order to continue through the menu past the music test.
PinballManiac40 I did exactly that and I can't get past the Music Test and I can get to the Music Test with the Center Button either up or down. Now I'm also getting Adjust Failure Right Outlane 32, but everything works fine.
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