Magicscreen carnival queen

(Topic ID: 208765)

Magicscreen carnival queen


By Lambecka

4 months ago



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  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Lambecka
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#1 4 months ago

Magical screen only moves when before 5th ball lights up or red or yellow star are hit .
When the green light are on for before 4 th ball, screens cannot been moved and also the light for,press buttons now do not light up.
Please can someone assist

#2 4 months ago

the select now light is likely the "select before 5th" switch L3 (manual pages 54-55). The chart calls it "select before 5th trip coil". Clean adjust switch L3.

the screen not moving is probably "before 4th selector lock" trip relay switch 1 (same manual pages)

in both cases, it's the connection between the middle/moving blade and the upper blade when the trip relay is reset/untripped that isn't working.

#3 4 months ago

By checking the switches as being advised by you , found that the coil for before 4th ball relay missing bracket and spring.
So that complete stack did not tripped, see picktures
Thats for sure my problem, any way thanks for assistance

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5A55ACF6-0B2B-4A12-B966-A879B1B92043 (resized).jpeg

#4 4 months ago

it's part of your problem. None of the switches on the before 4th selector lock trip relay affect the press button now light (called "select now lite" on the upper-left corner of the schem), so you still need to fix that issue.

looks like you have the armature/plate. If you can't find the spring, steal one off one of the booster trip relays until you get one....I'm guess most anyone with a parts game would be happy to mail you the spring. Those relays not resetting are only bad for the people who have to pay the winners.

#5 4 months ago

In total two of these armature plates are missing. The one shown on the photo was from the upper and mounted without having spring.The second missing is from the red score booster and the third was from the before 4th.

#6 4 months ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

it's part of your problem. None of the switches on the before 4th selector lock trip relay affect the press button now light (called "select now lite" on the upper-left corner of the schem), so you still need to fix that issue.
looks like you have the armature/plate. If you can't find the spring, steal one off one of the booster trip relays until you get one....I'm guess most anyone with a parts game would be happy to mail you the spring. Those relays not resetting are only bad for the people who have to pay the winners.

Checked, cleaned also switches of before 5th selector especially L3 but no succes the lights still don,t flash if they need

#7 4 months ago

if "press buttons now" flashes when before 5th is enabled, but not when before 4th is enabled, then the only thing different between those two conditions is the L3 switch and a wiper/rivet on the timer unit - specifically wiper D on manual page 39.

when the unit has stepped four times so wiper D is connecting rivets 27-4 and 14-1, that's the flashing with before 4th enabled.

could be cruddy connection on the rivets, but since it sounds like someone hacked up the game to disable the screen unless before 5th was enabled (and they permanently enabled some other features be removing the trip armatures), I'd take a look and see if they disconnected the 27-4 wire from the timer unit or the L3 switch.

having the "press buttons now" light flashing when you couldn't move the screen due to the permanently tripped before 4th selector lock trip relay would make no sense.

#8 4 months ago

Thanks for your patience, checked the rivets of the timer unit, and when the four strokes were made, pushed with finger on the rivets, one of them was bend just a little causes the problem. Problem solved and sign flashes as never before.
Almost all problems solved exept just one big one. When machine reaches winning score , the machine starts to try to put the point on the counter, but counters does nothing, instead machine goes on tilt.
There is no signal given to counter.
Can you help here as well or do i need to open new topic

#9 4 months ago

there's two ways for the tilt light to come on"
1] the tilt trip relay trips
2] the anti-cheat relay loses power

usually you have this problem when a high-current coil needs to be powered (the ones with plungers), there's something wrong in the circuit that causes the 50V supply to droop down and the anti-cheat relay loses power.

first check is to see if there's a mechanical issue. Manually step-up/reset the replay register and make sure the number wheels turn easily.

the payout sequence is a little different for inline scoring vs. section scoring, but the first step is to figure out how far you get. Easiest when done from the back:

1] reset game and leave screen in home position.
2] shoot four balls and place in playfield holes so no winner is created, but placing a 5th ball will create one.
3] push the R-button and verify the search wipers release and the search relays chatter. With no win, nothing else should happen and the search wipers will eventually lock back in the home position
4] shoot and place the 5th ball to create a 3-in-line or more win
5] put paper/business card between the contacts of search index switch 19B. That will prevent the replay cams index coil from powering
6] from the back, manually push down the search wiper lock magnet armature to release the search wipers. Make sure paper stays in the switch.
7] when the wipers reach the right position for the win detect, the search index coil should power and stop the wipers
8] pull out the paper and see if the anti-cheat lets go when the replay cams index coil powers or shortly after when the replay register tries to step up.

if it seems the problem is when CU cam 13B closes to step up stuff (you can put paper in that too the verify it's not the replay cams index coil), first check to make sure wire 48-4 going to the ball trough area isn't shorting to something. It usually went to a replays meter which shouldn't be active when the coin/back doors are open, but operators often permanently closed those switches. If the meter is bad or mis-wired, you'd be in trouble.

if meter wire is ok or the door switches are open, i'd just bite the bullet and disconnect the 48-4 wire from the replay register step-up coil. Jumper wire 30 to the coil lug and see if the register steps ok. If it does, jumper wire 30 to wire 48-4 and see if the reflex unit step-up coil powers ok.

#10 4 months ago

Ok will check and takes me some time. As told during payout machine goes on tilt ans also some times fuse 50v blown up
Forgot to,tell you,that when manual put some points on the counter ans closing frontdoor, pushing red button nothing happens. Only can start when inserting coin

#11 4 months ago

see schem below. The green circuit works, the red doesn't.

I'd shoot five balls so the before 5th selector lock trip relay trips, make sure there's credits on the replay register and try the yellow button. If that works, check the middle switch behind the red button and plug connections.

if yellow button is dead too, most likely is the anti-cheat relay switch...but the replay register zero switch is easy to see, so check that first.

note the anti-cheat replay needs to be powered for the switch to complete the circuit on the red path. The replay register just needs to be 001+

redbut (resized).png

#12 4 months ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

see schem below. The green circuit works, the red doesn't.
I'd shoot five balls so the before 5th selector lock trip relay trips, make sure there's credits on the replay register and try the yellow button. If that works, check the middle switch behind the red button and plug connections.
if yellow button is dead too, most likely is the anti-cheat relay switch...but the replay register zero switch is easy to see, so check that first.
note the anti-cheat replay needs to be powered for the switch to complete the circuit on the red path. The replay register just needs to be 001+

This problem solved it was indeed the zero,switch of the replay register.
Some times loosing total,picture in search to,bigger problem overlooked the small ones , anyway thanks
My findings of your post 9 will follow

#13 4 months ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

there's two ways for the tilt light to come on"
1] the tilt trip relay trips
2] the anti-cheat relay loses power
usually you have this problem when a high-current coil needs to be powered (the ones with plungers), there's something wrong in the circuit that causes the 50V supply to droop down and the anti-cheat relay loses power.
first check is to see if there's a mechanical issue. Manually step-up/reset the replay register and make sure the number wheels turn easily.
the payout sequence is a little different for inline scoring vs. section scoring, but the first step is to figure out how far you get. Easiest when done from the back:
1] reset game and leave screen in home position.
2] shoot four balls and place in playfield holes so no winner is created, but placing a 5th ball will create one.
3] push the R-button and verify the search wipers release and the search relays chatter. With no win, nothing else
happen and the search wipers will eventually lock back in the home position
4] shoot and place the 5th ball to create a 3-in-line or more win
5] put paper/business card between the contacts of search index switch 19B. That will prevent the replay cams index coil from powering
6] from the back, manually push down the search wiper lock magnet armature to release the search wipers. Make sure paper stays in the switch.
7] when the wipers reach the right position for the win detect, the search index coil should power and stop the wipers
8] pull out the paper and see if the anti-cheat lets go when the replay cams index coil powers or shortly after when the replay register tries to step up.
if it seems the problem is when CU cam 13B closes to step up stuff (you can put paper in that too the verify it's not the replay cams index coil), first check to make sure wire 48-4 going to the ball trough area isn't shorting to something. It usually went to a replays meter which shouldn't be active when the coin/back doors are open, but operators often permanently closed those switches. If the meter is bad or mis-wired, you'd be in trouble.
if meter wire is ok or the door switches are open, i'd just bite the bullet and disconnect the 48-4 wire from the replay register step-up coil. Jumper wire 30 to the coil lug and see if the register steps ok. If it does, jumper wire 30 to wire 48-4 and see if the reflex unit step-up coil powers ok.

Here my findings of,your point 1trhough 8
With paper between switch 19B created inline score.
Search wipers in the right winning position.
Removed paper and machine tried to activated the replay counter, see small movement of the stepup coil from register, but them powers going some where and anti cheat drops in tilt.
Then disconnected wire 48-4 and jumper the coil lug with wire 30, register started to step up with no problem.
After that jumper wire 30with the loose 48-4 and a lot of fire noted on switches from CU, power was taken away, clearly visble on the light.
In addition disconnected all wires from the reflex unit and did the same again wire 30 witj wire 48-4 and same happen again fire on the swithes from CU and machine in tilt.
As soon i connected wire 30 with 48-4 the power is gone and machin tilt
?????

#14 4 months ago

Bingo!!!! Found the problem forgot to check the the wire 48-4 that goes to,the ball through area and was connected to a replay meter. The solder of this wire was bad that it came in contact with the metal housing of the meter. Difficult to see from the outside, but just removed the wire and problem was solved. Machine runs ok and payout are going on the register. Of course many thanks for your help and just two,questions left

What is the effect not having the armature plates on the blue and red scoring booster from the trip relaybank??

When pushing button R to,place replays on the register some times it won,t stop and keeps on counting. Where to look at??

#15 4 months ago
Quoted from Lambecka:

What is the effect not having the armature plates on the blue and red scoring booster from the trip relaybank??

the armature plates hold the trip relays up in the reset position. No armature means those relays will always be tripped - except the brief moment when the trip bank reset coil is powered.

put another way, the red and blue score booster will always be enabled. While this kinda makes the game more liberal, having those relays tripped makes it less likely for other stuff like score advance and other features to enable.

Quoted from Lambecka:

When pushing button R to,place replays on the register some times it won,t stop and keeps on counting. Where to look at??

try and note the score level that doesn't work, then you can use the chart on manual page 47 to see which of the replay cams switches 10A-13A is used for that payout....or you can just check all of them. You have to remove the backglass and flip down the panel to see.

what's going on is the replay register is getting pulsed by CU cam 13B. A replay counter unit can step a maximum of 96 times, so during some payouts the replay counter may/must step at a lesser rate (the replay counter unit stops the payout when the wipers step off the end of the "hot" circuit trace or the open-at-96 switch opens).

For example, a 600 payout uses switch 10A to step the replay counter, and the replay counter unit will step 50 times. Therefore, the replay counter must be stepping once for every 12 credits added to the replay register. If you look at cam 10, it'll have one lobe. Cam 13 will have 12 lobes.

since the game has to handle a 3 level payout turning into a 5 level payout after all balls are shot, any 5-in-line/section payout higher than 96 has to use one of the 10A-12A switches that cause the replay counter to step less frequently than the replay register.

#16 4 months ago

Again problem while the payouts all the point going to the register, no problem
But when i turn the machine of and on again the register does not reset and machine goes on tilt.
Machine can only be started from the backside by pushing the start relais but pints stay in the register

#17 4 months ago

I'm not sure from your last post if the payout problem is solved. It it isn't make sure you check the outside wipers (outermost row) on the search disk for good contact. One of these feeds the pulse to the replay counters and one feeds the replay register step up. The register keeps counting forever if the counters aren't stepping.

#18 4 months ago
Quoted from okorange:

I'm not sure from your last post if the payout problem is solved. It it isn't make sure you check the outside wipers (outermost row) on the search disk for good contact. One of these feeds the pulse to the replay counters and one feeds the replay register step up. The register keeps counting forever if the counters aren't stepping.

Almost ready this machine, still have payout problem. Everything works,fine, score,goes,to,the register and also the counter resets perfect after power of and on.
Just one problem remains the payout for,the different line,score are much to,high, for,example 3 inline pays normally 4 but in this case 12, and also other options for,payout are too,high.

#19 4 months ago

the info above is for runaway payout ... i.e. payout never stops.

for payout rounding up to a fixed multiple ... like 12 .... your problem is the adjustment of the replay cams index switches. See:

https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/commonproblems/payout/overpay.html#replayindex

on carnival queen, the replay cams index switches are stack 18 instead of 16 and there's another switch, so 18B is the problem switch instead of 16A.

the manual on page 51 says all the switches should be open when the replay cams index coil is unpowered, but 18B is the one causing the round-up. Adjust the others the same way to avoid odd issues that could rarely happen.

#20 4 months ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

the info above is for runaway payout ... i.e. payout never stops.
for payout rounding up to a fixed multiple ... like 12 .... your problem is the adjustment of the replay cams index switches. See:
https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/commonproblems/payout/overpay.html#replayindex
on carnival queen, the replay cams index switches are stack 18 instead of 16 and there's another switch, so 18B is the problem switch instead of 16A.
the manual on page 51 says all the switches should be open when the replay cams index coil is unpowered, but 18B is the one causing the round-up. Adjust the others the same way to avoid odd issues that could rarely happen.

You,r right it was switch 18B causes the problem the switch already closed when reached the OD of the cam instead of open.
Matter of,adjusting to only close when coil is energized.
Payouts are just in line what theu need to be.
Finally machine runs as ik like him to run.
Many thanks especialy for your patience and knowledge of this type of old bingo,s
Albert

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