I'm not sure why it would make any difference if CPR were added to the list of suspected victims. There's been enough instances brought to light that people have already made up their minds about their stance.

Customer service is a thing of the past.At my bank they just shut down the drive through banking.Now I have to drag three little kids into the bank everytime I want to do anything.

I was always under the impression that Mike IS the whole company.

Gotcha. I was not aware of their entire company structure. Which, is also part of the problem that he is the only guy there. Unfortunately, many people rely on these retailers for parts, but they still have the "small time" mentally and are not overly professional. Places like pinball life and marco have crossed into the land of large, professional dealers.

Rum-Z . . . loved your post, man!!!

Nonsense. I just typed "bony flippers" into the search and it's the first hit that comes up. Then I tried "boney flippers" (spelled right) and its still the first hit.

I dont like that Mike has issues with oversea customers. I order from Pinballcenter and Pinball-Dreams in Germany...I would feel horrible if they kept my money and didnt send my order.

Again, I have to mention..I have placed 5+ orders for specific parts and never had an issue......and yes he sends candy. Out of protest for our friends at CPR I decree NO ONE EAT THE CRAPPY CANDY MAD SENDS!!!!!

No really???? Does anyone ever eat that candy?

I like mad and bay area never had problems with them. Only notable problems are from Marco. Marco seems to screw me every time and they never answer emails or resolve anything with me so guess what? I never choose marco unless I absolutely need to (cant find elsewhere, must have part) then I just hope they actually send me the part I ordered and not A: Never put it in the box or B: Send a bag with the correct part number/correct picture on bag/ totally wrong unidentifiable part inside bag and never answer my emails. Dicks.

My kids seem to like it!

J
LOL!! Mine to...but they like Bay Areas jelly beans better

To be totally fair to Steve...

Steve has a crap-ton of parts. Not all are on the site. Steve continues to organize those parts the way that they were always done - via a physical system based on the numbers. I have no idea how much he has, but I visited Gene's when he was selling out, and if they are even similar I spent more than four hours there combing through parts when I knew the part numbers that I wanted. I still had some difficulty finding stuff. They were everywhere.

For Steve who has I'm sure a similar layout for the parts, if you call up asking for the thing-a-ma-jig that goes on that pin that you have... no, it's not quite that thing... is it this? Wait, it should be red, not blue... etc - it eats up a lot of his time. Ain't no one getting super rich off selling parts, so his spending time looking up parts that he's going to sell to you for $1.00 apiece is really a waste of his time.

You should learn how to look up the manual parts eventually anyway, so if you're going to order from PBR know in advance that you need to figure them out first... Steve doesn't need to hold anyone's hand for finding the part numbers.

Having said that, I also totally get why people like buying their parts from people online like PBL who have everything listed in an easy to manage way. It is daunting to look through all the parts and figure out what you want.

I have never had an issue when I've ordered from Steve, but I also totally get why it can be off-putting. If you get to see how his stuff is probably stored though, I think a lot of people would understand why really quickly.

Again, not trying to be offensive to anyone, but I can see Steve's side.

To get this back on track: As for Mad / CPR... ?

On the track of "being fair to Steve"...

He saved me a huge world of grief in trying to get the score motor fixed on my Space Odyssey, when it just kept spinning, and spinning, and spinning, and spinning.

I'd called him up to order a few parts and to find out how to ship my motor back for repair. He asked what was wrong with the motor, and after telling him what it was doing he said don't bother sending it... buy this repair kit instead and save yourself ~$60 plus (cross-border) shipping. If it still doesn't work after that, phone me back and we'll get it shipped.

When the kit arrived, it did exactly what I needed, and I didn't have to deal with shipping the motor down from Canada.

He may be gruff at times, but when a vendor is willing to turn a $100+ repair into a $20 item, they get an A+ in my books.

Reminds me... second time I phoned down I was looking for a spinner for my Space Odyssey. I'd already talked to John @ John's Jukes, who suggested I call Steve. When he answered the phone I introduced myself and said that John had suggested that I call him looking for a particular part and that I had the part number for it. Steve's first response was, "John? Oh s$#@^, you're really out of luck if he's telling you to phone me." Made me laugh, and put a smile in my day.

Uh, that's all great. WTF is Steve?

My boys and I eat the candy. I will buy from anywhere I want because it is my money. It is a transaction between myself and the seller. I feel for the guys that get screwed and I will avoid some sellers but in the end of the day it is my money to loose/use.

People still use Paypal and guys get screwed there everyday. I am not trying to argue with anybody but I think the point has been made here and everybody keeps saying the same thing while ganging up on certain sellers. Whether they deserve it or not, where does this stop? Is it our business? I don't think so and I question the motives of a business that uses forums this way.

When I read the original msg posted in this thread, I see a person (or people) that is/are frustrated with the situation that has been apparently festering for months, and are trying to get Mike @ Mad motivated to resolve the issues. This doesn't look like a pleasant business situation to me. jmho

I think I recall reading other thread(s) in past where some Pinsiders outside the USA were able to get some of their orders filled and/or issues resolved w/ Mad with the help of other USA based Pinsiders helping out. Pinside Forum was utilized to help w/ communications.

So someone could f'ck your friend over but you'd still attempt to do business with them?

I don't see how a logical person would feel comftorable doing business with someone that has a history of screwing over people in the pinball community. I also appreciate the warnings people give when they have an issue with a seller, knowledge is power and their is too much money floating around this hobby to not warn friends about a possible issue.

Your optimism is obviously different but I appreciate the transparency when someone shares both good and bad experience alike.

Steve Young... The Pinball Resource

This thread is the first discussion I have seen of there being serious problems with MAD. As mentioned above, I have not personally had an issue buying from there. But, if what some of the things said here about how they do business are true, then I certainly will consider that when choosing where to buy. I was just hoping for a concrete example to avoid the appearance of the whole "band-wagon" effect.

I have no will to continue doing business with dishonest people in neither the micro or macro sense. Let them all go under, for all I care.

Perhaps everyone could post more links to vendors not mentioned in the sticky thread in order to increase the available options.

This is a recent thread that you may want to read.
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/problems-with-mad-amusement

Thats not what my point was. The point is that I do with my money is my business. What you all do with yours is your business. I think the OP has made his point and I was trying to difuse the thread a little. We do not need to keep bashing the guy over and over.

I know drugs are not legal buy everybody seems to be OK dealing with guys that smoke. What is the difference there? Basically everybody is free to spend their money as they wish.

Your point as I read it, and as you reinforced, is that you don't care how a vendor treats their customers as long as you get yours. Your anology has no relevance to the situation.

This whole hobby is chock-full of eccentric people, not just Steve Young, but Bob Roberts and many others. It never ceases to amaze me how many people who have never mastered basic socialization, business 101, modern technology, hygiene, etc., have gravitated towards pinball. Or maybe it's not surprising?

People that are saying he is breaking the law and we should not deal with him is what I am talking about. That is the real question from the beginning. That is what triggers the chain of events and what I was talking about.

I have found that just because a person has a problem with somebody, that does not mean that I will have the same problem. Many times I find the complete opposite. In this case I do not know either way, does not seem good. Just trying to keep the thread on a path so we do not have to close it. If it gets really bad it has to go and this one has the potential to turn bad fast.

marco may cost a bit more, however I do love the way that they go above and beyond to package everything nice and neatly in it's own individual parts bag (where they can) with the little informational tag.

I've never had any issues with receiving the wrong part (in fact, I've actually ordered the wrong part, phoned them with my order no. and had them correct my issue and give me the correct part at no additional cost when the correct part was more expensive

sure, there are going to be times when a company will fail in the customer's eyes. the big question from an individual's point of view is does that company fail multiple times in row, or is it a one-off? it's not like this stuff is picked by a machine, it's picked by people (and if you've seen the people that pick the product where I work, they are not the sharpest tools in the shed, but you get what you pay for and menial labor doesn't pay well to begin with)

in my eyes, marco's attention to packaging detail is a huge step over some of the companies that I deal with (and will continue to deal with because they are the only ones that carry particular items), but it's pretty sad when you receive an expensive parts order with metal, plastic, and paper (sticker) items all crammed into the same "previously used" plastic bag and then stuffed into a box (or worse yet, a bubble mailer)

given the crap that I've seen, it's amazing that stores receive goods in saleable condition, let alone the proper items (even with automation to help out [that's what I do for a living]).

wow!

this thread has taught me so much, about so many, quickly...

i am proud of my hobby, and this is def not one of the reasons why.

-jon - reciprocal nyc

Add a mad scientist like me and you basically covered most possibilities... and I can perhaps qualify for some - hopefully not all - of the qualifiers above

You apparently don't own any Gottliebs if you don't know who Steve is

Take this for what it is worth. I, like a multitude of you, have ordered and received product from MAD on numerous occasions without a hitch. I have stated this in defense of harsh criticism directed at MAD in a previous thread titled 'Problems with Mad Amusement'.

"MAD Amusements has always fulfilled my orders without a glitch..... MAD is obviously a SMALL business... This is a niche hobby, your not buying from Apple... Harping on a business for months can not be beneficial to anyones business, let alone a SMALL one... For some strange reason, criticism is cheaper than praise.
Lets get crazy!!!! Try appreciating the businesses that cary the parts that keep your beloved pinball machines running...."

I have been an entrepreneur my entire adult life. There is nothing that I respect more than an individual that sticks his or her neck on the line to open a small business. That being said, a couple of months ago, I had a small customer service issue with a board that I needed help with. Ultimately, I ended up having to place a call to Mad. Within twenty seconds I was treated to the most bizarre, aggressively belligerent conversation I have experienced in the last decade. Furthermore, I am not the least bit prude, and I found myself offended by the guy.

Please retract my post from the previous MAD thread. Apparently, the theme of piss-poor business practices is standard for this guy. Also, I can accept responsibility for my contribution to a correspondence going south. Believe me, if I felt even the slightest bit of culpability in this matter I would never post a disparaging comment. Financially, I can not say a negative thing about MAD, as neither he or I have a fiscal discrepancy. The time I have taken to spew this post is purely to acknowledge cause for a red flag to the Pinside community. The preposterous conversation I had with MAD leads me to conclude that somethings totally not right....

Good luck.....

It seems that lost in this "good v. bad customer service" debate, is the OP's original point.

Oh, yeah... right. They never told us what it was.

Never mind....

I have had the same experience with this idiot on the phone. He is right and the customer is wrong. I wanted to reach through the phone and slap his face. What a prick! I never did receive my exchange items I sent back to him that I bought at Allentown.

It sounds like if you deal with this guy its akin to playing "russian roulette".

right on right on

"russian" roulette? uhoh, you just bought yourself a 6-month shipping delay.

If I lived anywhere outside the USA I think theres a automatic 6 month shipping delay.

So did you get the big stereo the next week?

Hmmm. I guess I've just been duly warned

I've been saying this for about a decade. It relates to video arcade games as well.

I'm just going to throw this out there... just in case (giving the guy a little benefit of the doubt).

A) we all know he's tough to work with - but that is no reason to not purchase from him unless you need hand holding

B) his prices and shipping times (in the US anyway) are fantastic

C) he does have some items that others do not carry

D) he is a small company (1 person likely).

I've worked with many contractors (and I've even run into this problem before too). If he is using his business to make money to live, and things come up, sometimes you have to take a loan out on the money you owe other people - and expect to make it up with future orders. This happens ALL THE TIME with most building contractors and general contractors nationwide.

So, there's a darn good chance that if CPR wants to get paid, they may not want to try to close his business down by effectively telling everyone to shop somewhere else.

0.02

I wasn't talking about you cliffy!!!! a bubble mailer for your product has been sufficient. I'm talking a $200+ parts order from outside of the u s of a

I actually reuse your bubble mailers so where the hell is my CARGPB number?

My story appears to be the same as many others.

I was originally referred to MAD Amusements by his notorious 'friend' Barry White. I wasn't aware of their reputation at the time.

I regularly used MAD for parts that I could not source in my own country (Australia). On pretty much every occasion I had to chase up my order after it had not been sent and heard all about the bad weather causing delays with shipping and postal site being down to name a few. It didn't worry me too much, in the end I received my parts in the end albeit a month or two late.

I had spent a substantial amount of money with MAD over the years but when I questioned a 20% re-stocking fee for an item I cancelled within an order, mind you he hadn't even processed or packed the order, I received a very 'abrupt' email to say that he didn't need customers who thought they could make up their own rules and my account was deleted. Needless to say, I don't recommend him to anyone else anymore and I don't spend a cent with him anymore.

It is a shame because despite his apparent flaws, he does stock some items that are hard to find elsewhere and his prices are good. I can only say that every job, business, hobby, sport always seems to have someone that makes others look very very good.....there is always one!

I've chatted with Mike directly on previous orders and found him just fine to work with. Other than the limitation of shipping only to paypal registered addresses, I have never had a delay or an issue with Mad-amusements. I continue to use him based on the prices, stock and my previous experience. I'm always surprised to see the reports of the contrary here on pinside.

Your number was 36. But Cliffy got drunk one night and said he'd give that number to the first moron willing to shave his head for it.

Kim
CARGPB #36

The OP got exactly what he wanted....

He makes a threatening, foreboding statement about MAD amusements and doesn't fill in the details. He now has an enormous thread with negative comments about MAD and their business practices. This is the old trick in law - implications are often more damning than facts. Frankly, I am more turned off buying from CPR now than I would ever be from MAD Amusements.

Simply make your case rather than use innuendo and get the villagers with their torches all in a tizzy! We must burn something!!

Do you think this is the first thread about MAD?

Do you think all those who are complaining are making stuff up?

I thought you were #42? Isn't that what you've been using?