(Topic ID: 332320)

LW3 No Sound.

By sidetrackedbrew

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 8 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinRetail
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

#1 1 year ago

While I was in the middle of chasing down an issue with Bride of Pinbot, a regular walked over and told me the sound on LW3 quit.
So I got Bride fixed this morning, and here's where I'm at with LW3:

There's no sound at all, not even "back in action" when its turned on.
I've checked the voltages coming in to the sound board:
Pin 1: 5 volts
Pin 2: Ground (although a continuity test doesn't beep to the ground cable, but if I use a DMM and use it as one leg of the voltage it works)
Pin 3: -15 volts
Pin 4:
Pin 5:
Pin 6: 11.5 volts

I've also checked C49 for -5v, and C47 for 5v.
I've disconnected the Potentiometer and power cycled, still nothing.
A kind of thumping sound comes from the speakers when the pot is turned all the way up.
According to Pinrepair the only other step would be to replace the PAL chips at U19 and U20.

I've checked to make sure sound is on in settings, too. Anything else to look at while I wait for the PAL chips to come in?

#2 1 year ago

Ribbon cable problems are common, but I'm sure you re-seated them, plus, I'm pretty sure it'll boot up with a 'everybody dance now' sound even if the ribbon cable is disconnected.

Obviously, you've checked your voltages, and the only thing suspicious is the 11.5 Volts on the 12V line. Because I'm curious, I'd measure AC on that voltage, and make sure that there isn't a couple of AC volts riding on the DC... You won't find anything here, but it's something to test. I'm pretty sure that the +12v won't make the CPU of the sound board give up.

I double check the volume pot and it's wires, because an open there can be a problem, but I've never had an open volume pot on a data east, just a scratchy one!

The 6809 CPU is a failure point, but I usually get lucky when they fail and they get noticeably hot to the touch.

After that, you start getting into actual board repair territory. Reset line, clock, r/w etc. Address and data lines.

There is one test to check if the ram chip has failed on the Wiki:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#No_Sound_-_5077_Sound_Board_and_Others

Sound board problems always make me frown. The board repair here is frequently not simple.

Let us know what you find!

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from PinRetail:

Ribbon cable problems are common, but I'm sure you re-seated them, plus, I'm pretty sure it'll boot up with a 'everybody dance now' sound even if the ribbon cable is disconnected.
Obviously, you've checked your voltages, and the only thing suspicious is the 11.5 Volts on the 12V line. Because I'm curious, I'd measure AC on that voltage, and make sure that there isn't a couple of AC volts riding on the DC... You won't find anything here, but it's something to test. I'm pretty sure that the +12v won't make the CPU of the sound board give up.
I double check the volume pot and it's wires, because an open there can be a problem, but I've never had an open volume pot on a data east, just a scratchy one!
The 6809 CPU is a failure point, but I usually get lucky when they fail and they get noticeably hot to the touch.
After that, you start getting into actual board repair territory. Reset line, clock, r/w etc. Address and data lines.
There is one test to check if the ram chip has failed on the Wiki:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#No_Sound_-_5077_Sound_Board_and_Others
Sound board problems always make me frown. The board repair here is frequently not simple.
Let us know what you find!

“The 6809 is a failure point”
I checked and it is warm to the touch, however I swapped in a known good 6809 from another machine, no change.

I don’t have a logic probe to test the BSMT2000 chip, so I may just order another.

Forgive my ignorance, but where is the RAM? I don’t see “6116” on any chips. Thanks for your further direction.

#4 1 year ago

Ok, did a little more digging when I got to work this morning.

Quoted from PinRetail:

Ribbon cable problems are common, but I'm sure you re-seated them, plus, I'm pretty sure it'll boot up with a 'everybody dance now' sound even if the ribbon cable is disconnected.
Obviously, you've checked your voltages, and the only thing suspicious is the 11.5 Volts on the 12V line. Because I'm curious, I'd measure AC on that voltage, and make sure that there isn't a couple of AC volts riding on the DC... You won't find anything here, but it's something to test. I'm pretty sure that the +12v won't make the CPU of the sound board give up.

AC measured voltage on the +12v pin shows .18v AC, not sure if that's relevant.

Finally found the 6116 at u4, the reason I couldn't find it before was it's a 6264. Unfortunately it's not socketed, so that won't be an easy thing to fix. Guess I'll order a socket and a 6264 and hope for the best, unless anyone has any more suggestions...

#5 1 year ago

Also, the DE/Sega repair guide mentions the PAL chips being custom programmed; does anyone know who still programs PAL16L8 chips for LW3? After replacing the RAM, this will be my only resort left.

#6 1 year ago

This is a tough problem to give you advice on.

From your 'Sidetracked Brewery' line in your profile, I think you might be trying to keep a machine made in 1994 working in front of the public. I've always thought that this is a little like trying to run a taxi service with twenty nine year old cars. (Cargument...)

If this machine is in front of the public, it's important to get it running quickly, and getting unreliable parts replaced with reliable parts might be a very good idea.

Yes, $400 for a pinsound board is enough to make me choke... but it would get your machine working and you wouldn't look back. You could also sell your old board working or non-working to get back some of your repair cost.

If you've got weeks/months to fuss with this, you have a couple of options.

I'm not afraid to pick my battles. If a board can be fixed easily, I'll do the simple stuff, maybe dig a little deeper. But fairly quickly in the board repair cycle I come to a choice...

I can send this for professional repair. They have the parts, they've done this before.

I can attempt to repair this myself, but at my level of skill, it would be extremely helpful to have a known good, working board on my bench to set right beside the non working board. Testing things becomes easier, and I can swap suspect parts into a known good system. (This solves your PAL question...)

So, do you have access to another working machine with the same sound board? Can you purchase a working sound board that you can use as an example for this repair and then sell the working soundboard you just purchased back?

The hardest path is to not have a working example of the board to test with/against, and to attempt the board repair without access to all the parts. That's likely going to be a... memorable... repair. Hehe.

I'm in Charlotte, and I'm sorry to say that I don't currently have inventory of the sound board you need... otherwise, I'd have been glad to help you by either providing you a known good machine to test your board in, or by sending you my (working) board to give you something to test with. Are there any other pinball guys near you that might provide some help?

If you proceed with your board repair, keep posting what you find, and we'll hopefully get the attention of some of the better board repair guys on Pinside involved.

Good luck!

2 weeks later
#7 1 year ago
Quoted from PinRetail:

This is a tough problem to give you advice on.
From your 'Sidetracked Brewery' line in your profile, I think you might be trying to keep a machine made in 1994 working in front of the public. I've always thought that this is a little like trying to run a taxi service with twenty nine year old cars. (Cargument...)
If this machine is in front of the public, it's important to get it running quickly, and getting unreliable parts replaced with reliable parts might be a very good idea.
Yes, $400 for a pinsound board is enough to make me choke... but it would get your machine working and you wouldn't look back. You could also sell your old board working or non-working to get back some of your repair cost.
If you've got weeks/months to fuss with this, you have a couple of options.
I'm not afraid to pick my battles. If a board can be fixed easily, I'll do the simple stuff, maybe dig a little deeper. But fairly quickly in the board repair cycle I come to a choice...
I can send this for professional repair. They have the parts, they've done this before.
I can attempt to repair this myself, but at my level of skill, it would be extremely helpful to have a known good, working board on my bench to set right beside the non working board. Testing things becomes easier, and I can swap suspect parts into a known good system. (This solves your PAL question...)
So, do you have access to another working machine with the same sound board? Can you purchase a working sound board that you can use as an example for this repair and then sell the working soundboard you just purchased back?
The hardest path is to not have a working example of the board to test with/against, and to attempt the board repair without access to all the parts. That's likely going to be a... memorable... repair. Hehe.
I'm in Charlotte, and I'm sorry to say that I don't currently have inventory of the sound board you need... otherwise, I'd have been glad to help you by either providing you a known good machine to test your board in, or by sending you my (working) board to give you something to test with. Are there any other pinball guys near you that might provide some help?
If you proceed with your board repair, keep posting what you find, and we'll hopefully get the attention of some of the better board repair guys on Pinside involved.
Good luck!

Thanks for your advice. I bit the bullet and bought a pinsound board/voltage stabilizer and installed. Of course everything is perfect now and I loaded a new sound package that's awesome. The $500 hurt, but it should last forever. I'll send the old sound board off for diagnosis and repair, and update when the problem is actually diagnosed in case it helps anyone.

#8 1 year ago

This is what I would have done.

It's why I have a certain number of sound boards on a shelf near my bench waiting on me to look at them when I have time.

If you do find out what was going on I'm certain that many people would be interested.

Thanks for posting this problem!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 18.95
3,800 (OBO)
$ 17.50
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
4,995 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Plantsville, CT
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
 
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 64.95
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinSound
 
2,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Milwaukee, WI
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
3,995 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Rochester, MN
$ 17.50
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
$ 28.50
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
$ 85.00
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
From: $ 40.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
From: $ 209.00
$ 32.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 5.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lw3-no-sound and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.