(Topic ID: 310092)

Lucky Hand subtracting too many balls

By Peruman

4 months ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Peruman
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Lucky Hand Add Ball Count (resized).jpg
7A9C90A7-5C08-4261-9BDD-541F795C7FF7 (resized).jpeg
4C5CDB59-BF53-483C-8F36-2F9335386B49 (resized).jpeg
Lucky Hand Target Reset relay (resized).jpg

#1 4 months ago

I have two issues with the Lucky Hand I’m working on bringing back:

1) when I complete the drop target sequence for the Royal straight flush, the drop targets do not reset and the game does not advance to the WOW stage of the card progression

2) if I complete all of the rollovers, the game goes right to the WOW stage of the card progression, no matter where I’m at in that process. I thought the game was only supposed to jump to the next step

I’ve looked at the schematic to try and figure out how to debug these two steps but am coming up blank

Alberto

#2 4 months ago
Quoted from Peruman:

1) when I complete the drop target sequence for the Royal straight flush, the drop targets do not reset and the game does not advance to the WOW stage of the card progression

When you complete the next sequence (determined by the Sequence Unit stepper) the P/Target Bank Reset relay should fire:
Lucky Hand Target Reset relay (resized).jpg
When the Sequence Unit is in positions 3 and 4 you need to hit the royal flush which closes the 10, J, K, A, and Q switches. One of those switches is probably the issue. Before you check all five switches recognize that you've used most of them already to get through the previous sequences so only the 10 and A (in red) are being used for the first time. I'd start by checking those two.

Quoted from Peruman:

2) if I complete all of the rollovers, the game goes right to the WOW stage of the card progression, no matter where I’m at in that process.

I think that's the expected behavior. The rollovers trip the 1B-4B trip relays in the sequence bank. Once all four relays are tripped the 5B switch stack (listed in the Sequence Bank table as having No Coil) trips the U/Sequence Bank Reset and EX/Wow Rollover Control relays. The U relay then trips the V/Wow relay immediately if the game is in Novelty mode and the EX relay enables the Wows on the rollovers.

/Mark

#3 4 months ago
Quoted from Peruman:

2) if I complete all of the rollovers, the game goes right to the WOW stage of the card progression, no matter where I’m at in that process. I thought the game was only supposed to jump to the next step

Completing the top rollover sequence should only earn you one advance on the card-hand sequence in both AAB and novelty modes.

Each of the trip relays in the top sequence bank have make-break switches that help complete the circuit to the 1110-point relay. If these switches are make-making instead of make-breaking, you can run into a situation where both the P (1110 points) and F (sequence completed) relay are engaged at the same time, which will step the drop target sequence all the way up to WOW.

#4 4 months ago

MarkG - thanks! Both the Ace and the Ten switches were not making contact. Now the game recognizes when the Royal Flush is completed. Next, I need to adjust the tension on the drop target switches as a couple of them are slow to drop. I cleaned the whole unit already.

leckmeck - the reset switches are next, thanks!

#5 4 months ago

leckmeck

It was the Reset Bar, one switch was misaligned, once this was corrected the rollovers are now operating correctly

Thanks!

#6 4 months ago

As I started playing more, I noticed another issue, both the outhole switch and the trough switch are making the Subtract Ball coil fire. The issue is intermittent though. Sometimes it subtracts two balls, sometimes the correct one.

Looking at the schematic, only one open AX switch controls the Subtract Ball coil. How is it possible that the outhole switch and trough switch are both decreasing the ball count?

4C5CDB59-BF53-483C-8F36-2F9335386B49 (resized).jpeg
#7 4 months ago

If you block the AX relay switch with a piece of paper once reset has completed, does the problem continue? That would indicate that the pulse is not coming through that switch.

#8 4 months ago

MarkG, checked the NO AX switch and found that both wires, SL-YEL and BLK+RED are soldered to the same lug. This schematic has several pen marks of changes made by the previous owner. They dismantled the coin door and shorted out wires that went to the Coin Door so the game is always in Free Play, among other hacks.

If anyone can send me a photo of their Ax relay connections I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Alberto

7A9C90A7-5C08-4261-9BDD-541F795C7FF7 (resized).jpeg
#9 4 months ago

Is there an unoccupied solder lug on the other switch leaf? You could try to move one of the wires over if there is.

#10 4 months ago

Nothing unoccupied, I’m going to map out all the Ax switches and wire colors to figure out what is going on.

#11 4 months ago

MarkG

I dug into this issue more and I need to backtrack on the issue. The Ball Count unit is controlled by the Add Ball and Subtract Ball coils, but I was incorrect on the operation. The Subtract Ball count unit coil is used during the Reset process, which is why it’s connected to a switch on AX. This makes sense now.

The Add Ball count unit coil decreases the stepper from 5 to Game Over. This is supposed to decrease by 1 when the ball goes over the trough switch. The problem is that it’s also decreasing the stepper by one or two when the Ball Return Switch in the outhole closes.

This is what I need to debug next

Alberto

#12 4 months ago
Quoted from Peruman:

The Add Ball count unit coil decreases the stepper from 5 to Game Over. This is supposed to decrease by 1 when the ball goes over the trough switch. The problem is that it’s also decreasing the stepper by one or two when the Ball Return Switch in the outhole closes.

There are two paths into the Add Ball Count solenoid that don't involve the Trough switch:
Lucky Hand Add Ball Count (resized).jpg
One is through the Motor 2C and TX relay switches, the other is through the Motor 4B switch and through the Play Adjust jones plug (twice!). Both paths rely on an O/Ball Return relay switch which would close with the ball return switch fires the O relay. I'm not clear on how these two are used but if you start blocking switches or removing the jones plug you might be able to sort out which path is firing the solenoid when it shouldn't.

#13 4 months ago

MarkG, I cleaned the “play adj” Jones plug and also checked all the switches on the relay board. That TX switch was always closed, I think that was it and now the ball count feature works!

Thanks you

Just a couple minor things left before this game is all done

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