(Topic ID: 282435)

Lucky Ace - reset & bonus issue??

By Colsond3

9 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 31 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by Colsond3
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

pasted_image (resized).png
6D65F0DE-2CA3-4616-B578-659FE2B394E3 (resized).jpeg
outhole relay circuit (resized).JPG
ball release circuit 2 (resized).JPG
Ball release circuit 1 (resized).JPG
C8756FD6-023E-4707-8370-2455E7B9E773 (resized).jpeg
Capture (resized).png
68DC687E-4C9B-4FCC-AEF3-E8E0D9691237 (resized).jpeg
Capture (resized).png
lucky ace score motor circuit (resized).PNG
E70B811E-860D-47F6-850D-655555642CC0 (resized).jpeg
682FB423-6F99-4F91-B019-1B87A07D6396 (resized).jpeg
A75CA121-E38D-4AB5-B75D-76C679995735 (resized).jpeg
Capture (resized).png
Capture1 (resized).PNG

#1 9 months ago

Working on a Williams Lucky Ace. I was able to get the game shopped, replaced the power cord and get most of the issues sorted out. One score reel and the game over relay coils were fried, so I replaced those.

But I have one issue remaining.

When you hit the start button, score reels reset to 0, stepper moves and the ball is about to kick out of the trough. But...the bonus will not reset properly and keeps advancing the score reel by 1,000. Ball then doesn’t kick out.

I can kick the ball out manually, which ends the bonus mech running. Plays normally.

Sometimes when it drains, everything resets properly and the game plays. Other times, the bonus mech just keeps running again after each ball.

I’ve checked every switch, nothing arcing. No loose wires, rechecked stepper and bonus mech. Don’t see any other issues. Driving me nuts now.

Video below. Any help would be appreciated.

#2 9 months ago

Actually a second issue. None of the chimes are working either.

#3 9 months ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

But...the bonus will not reset properly

Check this Reset relay sw. and the score motor sw. 4C.

Capture (resized).pngCapture1 (resized).PNG
#4 9 months ago

Opening it back up now. Thanks much! I’ll report back.

#5 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Check this Reset relay sw. and the score motor sw. 4C.

Which switch and where is it at in that circuit? My bonus relay is attached to a bracket on the backside of the PF.

A75CA121-E38D-4AB5-B75D-76C679995735 (resized).jpeg

And the outhole relay is on the transformer board in the bottom of the cab. They look more proximal to each other in the schematic you posted.

682FB423-6F99-4F91-B019-1B87A07D6396 (resized).jpeg

#6 9 months ago

Unscrew and remove the ball trough apron to watch the operation of the ball release coil and arm. Clean coil sleeve and plunger. Score motor cam 4 switch A closes to pulse this coil. Clean and adjust switch if needed.

#7 9 months ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

Unscrew and remove the ball trough apron to watch the operation of the ball release coil and arm. Clean coil sleeve and plunger.

All of that is done already on the trough and kicker arm. Disassembled it all, thoroughly cleaned with new sleeve. Works smoothly and properly. I’ll check out the switch on the score motor cam.

E70B811E-860D-47F6-850D-655555642CC0 (resized).jpeg

#8 9 months ago

Well I hit that whole stack with Flexstone and must’ve adjusted something wrong...no reset, score reel reset doesn't initialize and ball won’t kick out at all. The score motor cam just keeps running nonstop.

#9 9 months ago

If your score motor won't stop turning, one of the switches on the left side of the schematic shown here is probably not opening when it should. Hopefully you still have all the paper labels on the relays in your machine - that makes tracking down each relay and switch a lot easier. And you probably know this, but just in case - there's no relationship between where things are on the schematic and where the same things actually are on the machine...none at all - have to go by labels and wire colors.

When you say you hit "that whole stack", were you referring to the 4th motor cam that curriedog posted earlier? One nice thing about Williams machines is that all the switches, both on the motor stacks and on relays throughout the game, are pretty large, with relatively big armature movement, so you can easily see if the switches are opening and closing as you press the armature or rotate the motor slowly by hand.

lucky ace score motor circuit (resized).PNG
#10 9 months ago
Quoted from paulace:

When you say you hit "that whole stack", were you referring to the 4th motor cam that curriedog posted earlier? One nice thing about Williams machines is that all the switches, both on the motor stacks and on relays throughout the game, are pretty large, with relatively big armature movement, so you can easily see if the switches are opening and closing as you press the armature or rotate the motor slowly by hand.

Yes, you need to get this straightened out before proceeding with anything else. As paulace noted, it's pretty easy to see what is going on, so stick your head right in there and, making sure that the stack is in the same pos. as on the schematic (look next to the '4') go down: closed, open, open, open, closed, open. Then make sure that they all do the opposite when the bottom sw. piece drops into the divot.

Capture (resized).png
#11 9 months ago
Quoted from paulace:

When you say you hit "that whole stack", were you referring to the 4th motor cam that curriedog posted earlier?

Getting back to it in 15 min. Thanks fellas.

I was referring to the 4th switch stack on the motor cam.

#12 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Then make sure that they all do the opposite when the bottom sw. piece drops into the divot.

This is driving me crazy. No matter how I adjust the second switch up, it is not in the open position when the bottom switch tip is in the divot. It just stays closed due to the plastic spacer.

Either it is continuously closed even when in and out of the divot, or continuously open.

#13 9 months ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

This is driving me crazy. No matter how I adjust the second switch up, it is not in the open position when the bottom switch tip is in the divot. It just stays closed due to the plastic spacer.

Ya know, looking at it closely now, I see that the top 'switch line' is missing in the schematic and it likely should be open, then closed when in the divot. Sorry 'bout that.

#14 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Ya know, looking at it closely now, I see that the top 'switch line' is missing in the schematic and it likely should be open, then closed when in the divot. Sorry 'bout that.

I thought you were right the first time. Am I not correct that the yellow circle indicates closed, and the green circle open?

And that is with the switch cam in the normal position, meaning the switch not in the divot, correct?

68DC687E-4C9B-4FCC-AEF3-E8E0D9691237 (resized).jpeg
#15 9 months ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

I thought you were right the first time.

It can't be. There is no way B could be closed at that point with the lifter.

Quoted from Colsond3:

And that is with the switch cam in the normal position, meaning the switch not in the divot, correct?

Check the cam in the bottom right.

Capture (resized).png
#16 9 months ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

They look more proximal to each other in the schematic you posted.

paulace did answer this, but I wanted to add that a schematic is not a physical map, but a map of connections.

#17 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Check the cam in the bottom right.

So this means that the third cam would be in the divot, being it’s normal position for opened or closed designation on the schematic?

C8756FD6-023E-4707-8370-2455E7B9E773 (resized).jpeg
#18 9 months ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

So this means that the third cam would be in the divot, being it’s normal position for opened or closed designation on the schematic?

No, if you look at the #3 cam pic to the right of your fingers you'll see that it's 90 degrees from being in the divot. The lifters are set up differently.

#19 9 months ago

The score motor on your schematic is drawn with all the cams being in the "home" position - that is, where it comes to rest between being called into use. You can see on the schematic that the cams are rotated so that the lifter on the "Index" cam is in the notch - that stops the motor from turning, and thus that is called "home". Remember that all the cams turn together! While it's in that home position, all the other cams are in the rotational positions as drawn. The notches in adjacent cams are staggered so that as the whole motor turns, all the cams turn together, and each lifter gets a turn to fall into the notch, but one after the other as the notches are staggered. This happens until the index cam lifter falls into its notch again, half a rotation later.

All you have to check with motor switches (or any switches for that matter), is that when the lifter falls into the notch, that all the switches change state. On a relay, you just move the armature with your finger and see if the switches change states. You have to look closely to see the change, sometimes.

On the back side of the switches, always look for solder tabs or stripped wire creating a short.

Also, schematics do occasionally have mistakes on them. Like @curriedog said, that B switch on cam 4 must be open in the position drawn. As he noted, it looks like they just missed a line on one of the switch contacts....it happens.

#20 9 months ago

Not to confuse things, but going back, your initial problem involved the ball not kicking out occasionally, so you might want to check Motor switch 4A as well. I'm not as familiar with Williams nomenclature as I could be, but I'm assuming the "Ball Release" relay is what kicks the ball out. It looks like it's fired by the 4A motor switch in series with the "Outhole" relay make/break switch shown in these snippets.

Ball release circuit 1 (resized).JPGball release circuit 2 (resized).JPG

However, there are 2 switches that have to close to energize the "Outhole" relay - one is on Motor 6B that says "Pulses Outhole Relay". The other switch is on the bonus unit and must close when the bonus unit reaches zero. If that switch wasn't closing, that would explain your original problem, as the "Outhole" relay would never energize, and so the "Ball Release" relay wouldn't activate either - the ball would just sit there and not be kicked out. A few switches for you to check. And possibly check the bonus stepper to make sure it's moving cleanly.
outhole relay circuit (resized).JPG

2 weeks later
#21 9 months ago

I came across this site and this thread while researching how the "Match Unit" on my Lucky Ace machine works. My machine starts and is playable. If it would help you, I could take some pictures of any switch. Just let me know.

#22 9 months ago
Quoted from crazycunuck:

I came across this site and this thread while researching how the "Match Unit" on my Lucky Ace machine works. My machine starts and is playable. If it would help you, I could take some pictures of any switch. Just let me know.

Awesome. Thanks.

The game started having other issues, so I jumped off it for a little bit to take care of other things. I’ll be jumping back on it tomorrow.

#23 9 months ago

some of my relays names are missing, and there are no numbers for my score motor cams so you might need to be a little creative in your descriptions i.e third cam starting from the off /on service jack, 4th relay from the back on the left hand side

#24 9 months ago

Colsond3 its Joe Miller I have a fully working Lucky Ace up here in the mountains with me if you need any help let me know. We will be up here for the next week then coming home for the holidays. You could also just have my game for 500.00 and your game in trade and I will get it working LOL! Love you man!! Talk to you later. You also have my cell number if you need to call.
Joe

#25 9 months ago
Quoted from cyroute:

You could also just have my game for 500.00 and your game in trade and I will get it working LOL!

500+ the game I have? Good to see you are still you. LOL. Hope Gerry is well too.

This isn't my game, I’m repairing it for a friend’s dad. Already did a ton of work to it, shopped it, etc. Was weeding through the last few issues after adjusting a ton, replacing burnt coils...and then it started having functional issues. All switch and relay related now.

Good to hear from you though man. Take care and stay safe. I’ll reach out to you once I dive back into this thing tomorrow night.

#26 9 months ago
Quoted from crazycunuck:

some of my relays names are missing, and there are no numbers for my score motor cams so you might need to be a little creative in your descriptions i.e third cam starting from the off /on service jack, 4th relay from the back on the left hand side

Awesome. Thank you. I’ll check back in when I crack it open tomorrow.

#27 9 months ago

OK. Done playing games. Ripped it open. Hate adjusting the switches on the scoring motor with the transformer board still in the game.

I wish Williams did the hinged transformer board lift like old Bally games.

6D65F0DE-2CA3-4616-B578-659FE2B394E3 (resized).jpeg
#28 9 months ago

And I think I solved the chime issue. Two of the coil sleeves were all gummed up and the pin wasn’t even striking the chimes. Switched out the sleeves.

#29 9 months ago

Start button won’t do anything now. Seems dead. Game will only start by manually rotating the wheel on the coin chute to engage the leaf switch. Then it plays one ball, but won’t advance or do anything else once the ball drains.

#30 9 months ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Start button won’t do anything now

If the Credit Button switch doesn't activate the Coin relay, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

pasted_image (resized).png
#31 9 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the Credit Button switch doesn't activate the Coin relay, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

Great. I’ll read through it and give it a whack. Thanks Howard.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside