OMG...another inane LOTR VE thread. AHHHHH

My OMG has nothing to do with losing money. I'm not into pinball for money. My entire collection could go to 0 and it wouldn't effect my lifestyle one bit.

My OMG is because it's misguided and folks that focus so much attention on it are misguided. I'd much rather see Stern innovate rather than regurgitate.

Occasionally, I think doing another run is a good thing. For example, I think IM was totally justified because the supply was really too small. It bummed me out that I couldn't move my modded out IM, however I just decided to keep it (which was a good thing in retrospect since I play it often).

LOTR doesn't need another run. Period.

No doubt it was a software tweak. When I upgraded, my machine immediately felt like it was on steroids Not just flipper power, but VUK's, etc. The Gimli VUK was so strong that it would bounce back 50% of the time (really annoying). Tried fiddling with the machine settings with no luck. Finally had to tie the wire form down to eliminate any flex/bounce. Now it never bounces back.

As far as power goes, my machine has been played at shows nonstop and the flippers don't lose power. Just say no to fans...it's a hack.

Sounds like you are an expert on the hobby. I'm curious...

- How long have you been in the hobby?
- How many games do you own?
- How many have you restored?

snaroff

mrclean had a long, pedantic post trying to correlate what many of us own and our view on this topic. Since his profile doesn't disclose what he owns, I was trying to understand his background a bit.

In any event, I disagree that "more is better"...pinball is certainly experiencing a revival, however flooding the market with pins isn't smart. The number of people willing to fork over 5-10k on a 200-400lb toy are limited.

Stern did many runs of LOTR over the years and the supply seems just right. Unless they are going to improve it in some way, producing more doesn't make sense. As many of us have pointed out, obtaining a LOTR for a sensible price isn't that difficult. This wasn't true for IM...the demand for IM far outstripped supply. Tweaking it and doing a VE rerun made a lot of sense. I own both LOTR and IM.

snaroff

I agree that 5k+ for a routed beat-up game is silly. Sounds like we are on the same page in terms of what's sensible.

Here is my anecdotal evidence that LOTR demand isn't that great. I tried to sell mine on both coasts (as the result of an east->west coast move). It's single-owner, HUO in exceptional condition. I was asking 5.5k on the east coast 1 year ago. 2 months ago I was asking 5.7k with a ColorDMD installed.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-lotr-single-owner-great-condition
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-cq-lotr-low-plays-single-owner-5500

Both SoCal and Florida have very healthy pinball communities. Very recently, I've had some queries about my LOTR (I believe as a result of the skepticism surrounding the likelihood of Stern doing a VE). Unfortunately, for them, I've taken it off the market because I decided to sell something else. For many of us, selling pinball machines is more about emotion and less about money!

Bottom line: If LOTR demand was at IM demand levels (prior to IMVE), my pin would have sold very quickly.

snaroff

Man, when I was building my collection, if I wanted a pin, I never sat back and said, "Hmm, should I wait for the stars to align so I can save $500 or so". I said, "do I trust the seller?...do I want the pin?...is it a fair price?". If I answered "yes" to those 3 questions, I bought it and moved on...

I just don't understand the "deer in the headlights" VE waiting game. I'm more about living today and having fun. Different strokes I guess, and I hope you eventually get your sub 5k HUO original!

snaroff

You are correct...I purchased mine in 2004, so it's roughly 12 years young

To answer your question...the age of a machine NEVER enters into my thinking. Only condition. My LOTR is just as beautiful and plays as strong as my AC/DC and MET (both NIB purchases). From my perspective, the PF's and parts only get cheaper over time (since Stern is trying to make more $$).

And your comment on "losing 1k" is also misguided (i.e. not unique to the VE phenomenon). I bought a NIB STLE and decided to sell it after 4-6 months. I lost money (which is pretty common if you sell ANY NIB in under 1 year). If you don't want to "lose money", don't sell. If space is more precious than money (and you don't like the pin), then you take your lumps and move on...

snaroff

I hope your crystal ball is right.

The hypocrisy in this discussion is some VE-enthusiasts say the ONLY reason the VE-opponents are against them is fear of losing $$. Here you are (a VE-enthusiast) saying you'll sit on the sideline for fear of losing money

I agree with Rarehero...this is more likely about the "recent pinhead phenomenon" of simply wanting NIB (which is no doubt a simpler transaction). Some collectors (like me) like the "hunt" of finding great examples that great collectors/restorers are selling. I actually PREFER buying from a great/anal collector than buying directly from Stern. I've owned many barely used Sterns (Sopranos, IM, Tron, AP, etc.) that were just as nice as NIB. In fact, nicer in many instances. I've had more tech issues with NIB Sterns than with a pin that was babied/tuned by a collector. No joke, but maybe I've just been lucky...

I can't imagine how boring the hobby of collecting would be if my only transactions were NIB purchases through Stern.

snaroff

I bought one NIB in 2004 and still have it...most reliable pin in the herd.

I've tried to sell it on 2 separate occasions and had very little interest (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-cq-lotr-low-plays-single-owner-5500).

IIRC, Stern has made several runs of LOTR. It's awesome and I'm glad mine never sold!

In any event, my gut says the supply is spot-on and Stern has no reason to build any more (especially since it would require R&D to accommodate the new SPIKE platform).

snaroff