(Topic ID: 34319)

LOTR: What's the purpose of these metal bars?

By Buckman

11 years ago


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  • 35 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by Patofnaud
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 11 years ago

LOTR has these metals bars underneath the flippers and I've wondered what the purpose of them is? Our Tron and Xmen don't have them. They don't connect to anything underneath the playfield. Were these designed to guide the ball down once it rolls past? Are they supposed to help me line up my flippers? Were they put there to look cool? I'm sure they must be there for a reason. Also curious why Stern stopped using them at some point? Just one of those vexing things I've wondered about.

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#2 11 years ago

Cannot remember the proper term (For some reason I am thinking Biff bars), but some games have them to prevent bangbacks/death saves.

#3 11 years ago

They stopped using them because they cost some teeny-tiny insignificant amount of money and aren't absolutely essential, which just makes it all the more likely that the plastic balloon apron will launch the ball back into play upon draining!

#4 11 years ago

I don't think the aprons were ever plastic on LOTR.

#5 11 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

Cannot remember the proper term (For some reason I am thinking Biff bars), but some games have them to prevent bangbacks/death saves.

That is right.

Older manuals referred to them as anti-biff bars.

They have been called biff bars as long as I can remember.

LTG : )

#6 11 years ago

Biff bars or anti-biff bars, now I know what they're called and what they were supposed to do and I'll definitely be able to sleep easier tonight! Thanks for the information.

As for the name, I could imagine that it was derived in one of two ways:

1) Pinball player named Biff, strolls into his local arcade back in 1955 and fires some quarters into his favourite machine. He death saves time and time again and is going crazy on the machine, and the local patrons are casting a rather evil eye Biff's way. The owner sees this and walks up to Biff and says "my goodness Biff, would you just take it easy on that machine?", to which Biff replies "not a chance". So the owner creates a metal bar and installs it, and names it the Biff bar (or anti Biff bar, whichever way we want to call it).

2) Pinball player strolls into his local arcade in 1955 and fires some quarters into his favourite machine. He death saves time and time again and is going crazy on the machine, and the local patrons are casting a rather evil eye his way. The owner, whose name is Biff, creates a metal bar and installs it to prevent the death save activity on the machine, and thus the "Biff bar" is born.

Quoted from DCFAN:

I don't think the aprons were ever plastic on LOTR.

You are correct, Stern was going all out back in the LOTR days with metal aprons and Biff bars, no expense was spared.

#7 11 years ago
Quoted from Buckman:

As for the name, I could imagine that it was derived in one of two ways:
1) Pinball player named Biff, strolls into his local arcade back in 1955 and fires some quarters into his favourite machine. He death saves time and time again and is going crazy on the machine, and the local patrons are casting a rather evil eye Biff's way. The owner sees this and walks up to Biff and says "my goodness Biff, would you just take it easy on that machine?", to which Biff replies "not a chance". So the owner creates a metal bar and installs it, and names it the Biff bar (or anti Biff bar, whichever way we want to call it).
2) Pinball player strolls into his local arcade in 1955 and fires some quarters into his favourite machine. He death saves time and time again and is going crazy on the machine, and the local patrons are casting a rather evil eye his way. The owner, whose name is Biff, creates a metal bar and installs it to prevent the death save activity on the machine, and thus the "Biff bar" is born.

.

I think answer 1) is correct Buckles except for the following bit of info :

- It wasn't the pinball owner who created and installed the "anti-biff bars" .... it was actually Marty McFly who had come back in time in his Delorean with them . .... lol .

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from Buckman:

You are correct, Stern was going all out back in the LOTR days with metal aprons and Biff bars, no expense was spared.

LOL! Now that's funny!

#9 11 years ago

Are these not one newer games? I honestly never noticed, but I am pretty sure they are on every machine I own (but I have only one Stern).

Chris

#10 11 years ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Are these not one newer games? I honestly never noticed, but I am pretty sure they are on every machine I own (but I have only one Stern).

That's what I was curious about, only our LOTR has them (they aren't on our MM either). So at some point in the last 5 years or so it looks like Stern stopped using them (and I don't know how many machines prior to LOTR had them). Maybe they were a lot more popular on older machines?

Quoted from MIL:

I think answer 1) is correct Buckles except for the following bit of info :

- It wasn't the pinball owner who created and installed the "anti-biff bars" .... it was actually Marty McFly who had come back in time in his Delorean with them . .... lol .

Now that's funny! Didn't think to get McFly in on the Biff bar story but it makes perfect sense!

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from Buckman:

Maybe they were a lot more popular on older machines?

They came on in the mid-90's and tailed off in the late 90's. Not sure when Stern brought them back? I never noticed them on LOTR before. Weird. Not sure when they were first invented either.

#12 11 years ago

They didn't start in the 90's. Gorgar has them.

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from flashburn:

They didn't start in the 90's.

I know...but they disappeared for a while and then came back on in the mid-90s.

Quoted from Pimp77:

Not sure when they were first invented either.

#14 11 years ago

Biff bars - you learn something every day on this site

#15 11 years ago
Quoted from bobbyconover:

They stopped using them because they cost some teeny-tiny insignificant amount of money and aren't absolutely essential, which just makes it all the more likely that the plastic balloon apron will launch the ball back into play upon draining!

Those plastic aprons completely eliminate bangbacks. Which renders the biff bars useless.

While both moves may have been primarily for cost cutting, they complimented each other nicely. Always hated cleaning around the biff bars anyway.

#16 11 years ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Are these not one newer games? I honestly never noticed, but I am pretty sure they are on every machine I own (but I have only one Stern).
Chris

Def. NOT on my Oct/Nov Tron..

I get plastic-apron-necro-bouncebacks a lot.

#17 11 years ago

They are on all my early ss pins.
My 1990 Rollergames doesn't have them, but has a small center post between the flippers.
Makes sense to me that they are not needed on machines w/ a bounce-back center post.

#18 11 years ago

Just took a look through "The Complete Pinball Book" which was published in 2000 and found a lot of machines from the 70's and 80's with the Biff bars (forgot that I had this book). Stern's Pinball (how simple is that name for a pinball machine) from 1977 had them, as did machines such as Gottlieb's Outer Space (1972) and Target Alpha (1976), Williams Time Warp (1979 - the machine with the Banana Flippers) and as mentioned Gorgar (1979), Zaccaria's Devil Riders (1983), Data East's Tommy (1994), Bally's Black Jack (1978) and Eight Ball (1977). These are just a few examples.

So they were definitely popular in the 70's, 80's and also into the 90's. Looks like LOTR might have been near the end of the line for good ol' Biff and his legendary bars though.

#19 11 years ago

I hate how they look and am glad they no longer use them. They can actually cause damage if hammered in too tight and some of my Sterns have had chipping in those areas from the wood splintering where it gets pounded in. One of the nice things about LOTR LE is they did not use them.

#20 11 years ago
Quoted from Buckman:

That's what I was curious about, only our LOTR has them (they aren't on our MM either). So at some point in the last 5 years or so it looks like Stern stopped using them (and I don't know how many machines prior to LOTR had them). Maybe they were a lot more popular on older machines?

Now that's funny! Didn't think to get McFly in on the Biff bar story but it makes perfect sense!

did someone call me

#21 11 years ago
Quoted from Buckman:

Looks like LOTR might have been near the end of the line for good ol' Biff and his legendary bars though.

Nope. WPT has them. Other Stern games are hit and miss. Even within the same title. I believe some T3's got bars while others didn't.

#22 11 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Nope. WPT has them. Other Stern games are hit and miss. Even within the same title. I believe some T3's got bars while others didn't.

Well that's good to hear that Biff is still making appearances here and there. I wonder if certain designers just like them and want them on the playfield? It's interesting that the standard LOTRs had them but the LE didn't.

#23 11 years ago

Okay, I was wrong (not the first time, LOL).

My Capcom machines do not have the bars on them, but those have the center post between the flippers, so I don't know if that is why. That is on Breakshot and Airborne.

The really odd thing to me is that my Black Knight has them on both the lower AND upper playfield flippers.

Chris

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#24 11 years ago

Yup...got em on wpt

#25 11 years ago
Quoted from flashburn:

They didn't start in the 90's. Gorgar has them.

My 1971 Gottlieb ROLLER COASTER and 1979 Gottlieb GENIE both have those bars. My 1985 Williams COMET does not have them. 1991 Data East HOOK Has them. And LOTR has already been covered.

#26 11 years ago

Just checked my pins, NASCAR doesn't have them.

Gottlieb Victory does, and Yukon Special EM doesn't.

#27 11 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Always hated cleaning around the biff bars anyway.

I use some dental floss to pull them out when doing a full cleaning. Lots of accumulated crud / wax / dried novus underneath.

#28 11 years ago

Lots of older EMs have these and it seems like some designers like JPOP in the 90s started using them again.

#29 11 years ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

My Capcom machines do not have the bars on them, but those have the center post between the flippers, so I don't know if that is why. That is on Breakshot and Airborne.

I think PM is the only Capcom machine that had them. They seemed to abandon the use of them after that, even on games with no center post.

#30 11 years ago
Quoted from Buckman:

LOTR has these metals bars underneath the flippers and I've wondered what the purpose of them is? Our Tron and Xmen don't have them. They don't connect to anything underneath the playfield. Were these designed to guide the ball down once it rolls past? Are they supposed to help me line up my flippers? Were they put there to look cool? I'm sure they must be there for a reason. Also curious why Stern stopped using them at some point? Just one of those vexing things I've wondered about

Just about every manufacturer out there used them at some point or another. Alvin G used them on darn near every game, and they even used them for other purposes sometimes....like mounting them vertically in the Dinosaur Eggs cabinets to protect the cabinet from wear when the playfield was tilted left and right (for those that are unfamiliar with this game, it has two levers on the front that allow you to move/tilt the playfield).

Most Spanish manufacturers used them as well, but in the case of Spinball, they only used them on the right side (the exception being Mach 2, but that's not a true Spinball anyway...)

Anyway, for whatever reason, sometimes they were used and sometimes not. Maybe it was just up to the designer of the game....

Post edited by MattElder : fixed a typo

#31 11 years ago

My Stargate has them, but Lights, Camera, Action does not. I knew what they were for, but not what they were called. I love this site, haha.

2 months later
#32 11 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

Cannot remember the proper term (For some reason I am thinking Biff bars), but some games have them to prevent bangbacks/death saves.

I am revisiting this thread because I had a thought on this today - and it aligns with what dsuperbee said up above.

These appear to be "guides" to prevent balls that drain LEGITIMATELY via the outlanes from coming into any contact with the flippers. Some balls that drain via outlane CAN get into the area where these bars are with some speed and bouncing around a bit. An innovative player MIGHT choose to figure out a way to bounce the ball using the bottom/back side of the flipper AGAINST the apron and bring it back into play ("Straight UP The Middle" so to speak). These bars prevent that from being possible by guiding an exiting ball against the apron.

A "standard" bangback is still quite possible with a speedy SDTM drain - a ball with the right spin on it will richochet off the apron at the sides of the ball trough and re-enter play UP between the flippers without coming into contact with these bars - something that most of us have seen a million times.

That's my "new thought" on these bars.

#33 11 years ago

Discourages abuse. Nice to have in my view.

#34 11 years ago
Quoted from PennSkier:

something that most of us have seen a million times

Not a million times, but I did see it when my son was playing yesterday. It definitely happens.

#35 11 years ago

McFly!!!!!

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