(Topic ID: 117946)

LOTR RIng Shot from Cradle

By steigerpijp

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 46 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Olddragon
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

9d0be7eeae5bead9aeb0562ee992446b.jpg
image-85.jpg
image.jpg
#1 9 years ago

Hi , giving this another try, maybe I'm epxecting too much from my machine..

I bought myself an LE a few months back, after having an original for loan a few weeks. I never cared for it, until then, and after I got to grips with it, had to have one too, and now its a fact.

But,even though I was told by afew friends that an LE would play much better, no flipper fade, etc, its just not what I expected.. in fact, so fed up now I'm thinking of just getting rid of it, its frustration game #1.

I loved making the backhand shot to the sword ramp, loved pretty much being able to nail every shot on the loaner, when you wanted and aimed it right , just made it enjoyable, but now, no backhands on the LE, sometimes, it just feels like luck if it happens, and it makes the game being able to do this one. I purposely avoid it to mis it on the drain after the reject.. , other ramps are now also much more common rejects, the center one now really is a pain. I dont feel I suck at pinball, im not a super player, but something feels not quite right ..

Machine is in as good as new condition, leveled up good, adjustments to factory, its now got just under 300 games on it, i cleaned out flipper button switches, adjusted the spinner, cleaned the flipper mechs, adjusted them, all good.. I can't beleive new high power coils are the fix.

biggest issue, and maybe its me, playing technique but, why wont a cradled ball, left or right, barely make it into the ring?

9 out of ten it just makes it to the top, rolls back down the middle, or dribbles of the end, last attempt at DTR had about 20 of these in a row , man.. grr.

I want to be able again to just catch , hold it, aim and destroy that ring.

#2 9 years ago

i can hit the ring from either flipper ball cradled. i also have my back legs jacked all the way up.
i have the updated coils and i installed williams cabinet flipper switches.
all of the le's i played play terrible compared to the normal versions for some reason.
get those cross hatch style cabinet switches out of there and put in some full circle contact switches.

#3 9 years ago

That sounds very good to me, and an experienced point of view/advice, thanks! if that solves my issue I'll be a happy man!

#4 9 years ago

If you upgrade your coils, make sure you get one specific for the LE. I believe they may be different than the regular game. Upgraded coils make a huge difference, but at times can feel over powered.

#5 9 years ago

I see you say you cleaned and adjusted your flippers. I would highly recommend rebuilding them. The first LOTR I had, the flippers were kind of weak. It was tough to make the ring shot sometimes. After a rebuild, holy smokes, they were lighting fast. It actually took about 50 games for them to not be over powered. I was scared I was going to break everything under the glass for a little while! After they broke in, they were awesome.

#6 9 years ago

This is very surprising hearing your flipper issues on an LE, as they came from the factory with upgraded coils. Mine certainly has more than adequate coils. I don't know if there was a difference in LE's that shipped to Europe???

I have no issues with hitting the sword backhand, even after epic 30-minute long games with a trip to Valinor in between. If you're not making the sword backhand from a cradle, then it must be impossible to make the ring shot -- which is just as frustrating, if not more so.

Did you try adjusting the flipper strength settings in the menu? You shouldn't have to do so with LE coils, but it might be worth trying.

#7 9 years ago

Well with everything I have seen lately, on LOTR I'd be looking at the EOS switches. If they are not clean and closing properly you lose all kinds of power in that game. And before anyone says Stern's don't use them and it is a pulsed time switch, LOTR does use them. So toss your game into switch test and have a look. Then clean and adjust. Is everything else is good you should be able to make those shots.

#8 9 years ago

My LE has crazy-strong flippers. Sounds like it should be a fixable problem.

#9 9 years ago

Whoever told you "an LE would play much better than a standard LOTR" doesn't sound well informed. I have a standard LOTR from the first or second run (2004) and it plays incredibly strong after all these years (with 0 mods, original coils). In general, Stern LE's offer extra artwork/bling/features that have nothing to do with how the pin plays. The biggest factor that effects a pins performance is how well it's been maintained over the years.

#10 9 years ago

The LE flipper coils can still be upgraded. I'd personally recommend it. The coils also have a problem heating up during long games. Here's a thread discussing this issue.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-limited-edition-coil-up-grade-yn

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1112

#11 9 years ago

I had the same issue with my LOTR standard. Had about 600 plays on it when I got it. I couldn't make any of the ramps or ring shot unless the ball already had momentum (no cradling). What I did to fix this is adjust the flipper coil strength in the menu. So far I adjusted the first setting from 20 (default) to 30 and I can backhand just about every shot now. It doesn't make it everytime of course but before I was about 1 in 5 it felt like and I was getting tired of watching my shots stall and drain on me...

Found this in the release notes for version 10.0 (its actually released in v8.0+):
- Flipper code rewritten. The game now uses the EOS switch where available
to turn off power to the flippers earlier. This should generally result in
the flippers staying MUCH cooler over a longer period of time and reduce
player dissatisfaction on a heavily-played game.
- 3 adjustments were added to control the flippers. YOU SHOULD NOT CHANGE
THESE WITHOUT CONSULTING TECH SUPPORT.
- Standard Adj 53: Specifies the minimum flipper fire time in ms.
- Standard Adj 54: Specifies the maximum flipper fire time in ms.
- Standard Adj 55: Specifies extra fire time after reaching EOS in ms.

--Kevin

Post edited by Cappi: Checked LOTR Manual for details

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Well with everything I have seen lately, on LOTR I'd be looking at the EOS switches. If they are not clean and closing properly you lose all kinds of power in that game. And before anyone says Stern's don't use them and it is a pulsed time switch, LOTR does use them. So toss your game into switch test and have a look. Then clean and adjust. Is everything else is good you should be able to make those shots.

Okay, I just checked this, in dedicated swith test these are the only 2 that are on screen, I move the flippers by hand, the switches are activated/deactivated. (admit electronic is not my strongest point) mechanical is more self explanatory ..

so these are being worked at least, do I need to adjust them early, or late?

about rebuilding the flippers, ok, is that neccessary after 310 ( not long) games? I had a look for anything possibly scraping the sleeves, but the stops, plungers etc are just new looking. So a clean is all it took admit maybe I can really tighten up the linkage to just any play, but that might cause binding when things heat up?

I also played with the 53-55 adjustments, a while back, no avail, just returned to standard settings this weekend. maybe after adjusting eos this could help? flat out max , or small increments?

Terry at PBL emailed back, before replacing the coils , the original cab switches could be causing bad power , so thats probably the next fix as soon as i get a set in house.

And yes, I knew the LE had more bling, thats not the main reason , more important, it was my best shot at an almost new mechine, I really want to master this thing so figure keeping it for a while, the difference v standard was said to be a more regular power on the flippers , over long ball times , with a revised power board in the head. could be wrong but this was from experienced guys having owned all versions.

we're talking about a canadian import machine here btw,

thanks so far for all the suggestions. Going to check all options

#13 9 years ago

I have a standard from 2003 with original coils. No issues with ring shot from either flipper or backhanding right flipper to right ramp.

#14 9 years ago

Is there any up-down slack of the flipper shaft through the bushing? The last couple new Sterns I bought were built with zero slack in that area, which causes the flipper to bind/rub on the bushing, losing a little power. You should be able to wedge a credit card between the bat & bushing while lifting the bat.

#15 9 years ago

Have you checked the spinner? The bottom can get smashed and really slow the ball down.

#16 9 years ago

One thing of note, if you are using Superbands it will be harder to backhand the sword ramp.

For the center ramp. make sure the spinner is not bent up on the edges. Also, the upgraded coil really helps for the left flipper.

#17 9 years ago

Spinner -check# it wasn't smashed, seeing the machine is still very new, but it was" sagging" a little , so after bending straight, balls got caught and slowed by it.. so pitch is up now at the back, spinner hangs at the right angle now, not delaying it much anymore

nope, just regular black rubber.

backhanding.. well just isn't snappy enough for the tight shot.

later tonight ill have tried some suggestions, fingers crossed, it has to work, my old loaner did, a 2004 version, so the new one has to really.

#18 9 years ago

Okay , I got a result, and a pleasing one to say the least.

I looked at cab switches, Eos, checked play on bushings again, nothing Out of the ordinary.

Then the rubber return stops caught my eye. turns Out they take away about 3mm of plunger travel inside the coil, but that's got to be more multiplied through the shift/bat. So Out they came

And boy, is it!!! Full motion, full power, backhand shots up both ramps, even the loops with luck, and decicive consecutieve hits through the ring , as if its going through the backboard.

First game straight on to the high score board, can't wait to fully enjoy it again from now on!

Thanks all for the helping suggestions etc, appreciated

image-85.jpgimage-85.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

My LE has crazy-strong flippers. Sounds like it should be a fixable problem.

Ditto for me. My LOTR LE has strong flippers too. No problems with any shot. I love the BH shot to the right ramp. Very satisfying.

#20 9 years ago

Does any one know if taking out these rubber stops runs any risk? My experience is similar to Steiger's and I'd love to add a bit of a boost to my flippers.

#21 9 years ago

Are these stops standard issue on every lotr version? Cant see a major drawback, I mean the plunger is pulled back by spring Only , a flat stick on replacement piece of rubber would stop metal/metal contact.

In any case, feels like a new machine, yes!!

#22 9 years ago

The stops are standard on Stern pins IIRC and I would think most others. They are there to keep the link from mashing into the bracket. I wouldn't take them out.

#23 9 years ago

Congrats on fixing the problem. Now go enjoy your game

#24 9 years ago

I might try your fix for my tspp, the flippers feel weak on that game for me.

#25 9 years ago
Quoted from bflagg:

The stops are standard on Stern pins IIRC and I would think most others. They are there to keep the link from mashing into the bracket. I wouldn't take them out.

Totally agree. Taking them out is a hack...definitely not the correct fix. Sounds like the flipper mechs are not adjusted properly...

#26 9 years ago

Agreed, they are there with function, luckily the return spring force wont mash things up that badly, there's nothing else on the mech to adjust, its as should be . A hack might be harsh and keep others from making this "adjustment" to make things enjoyable . Maybe the LE batch had a shorter base plate?

In any case I am planning to fit a standard return b/w plug instead, checked my others, they are nice and flat compared to sterns, and Will keep my plunger travelling full length.

Once removed the bats will drop so you'll have to re-adjust them. Im happy with the result actieved, I think others Will too

#27 9 years ago

My cars brakes aren't working that well ... Should I take out the brake pads so the calipers squeeze on the brake rotors directly? That'll fix the problem. For a day....

The rubber stops are not your problem. Put them back in, and start again.

Terry's upgraded coils should provide more than enough oomph. Something else is wrong. Re-read all the suggestions in this thread and work through them all.

rd

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

My cars brakes aren't working that well ... Should I take out the brake pads so the calipers squeeze on the brake rotors directly? That'll fix the problem. For a day....
The rubber stops are not your problem. Put them back in, and start again.
Terry's upgraded coils should provide more than enough oomph. Something else is wrong. Re-read all the suggestions in this thread and work through them all.
rd

I agree with RD... BUT... this did provide a very interesting data point. When you took them out (the rubber stops), you saw that the flippers were working awesome! So even though the game is "good as new" and only has 300 games on it, I would highly suspect that something isn't original in the flipper mechs. For instance the plungers were from something else and were slightly longer than stock. Maybe the pawls are the wrong ones shifting things. Maybe both. You are closer to the correct solution, and your debugging has provided you a lot of information. Now it is time to figure out why it is wrong and get it fully corrected. That way you can have years of trouble free gaming.

#29 9 years ago

You shouldn't do anything else until you measure the resistance across the two factory coils. If they read over 4 ohms, get the PL coils and put the rubber stops back in place. No need for all the other stuff. Check your coils.

#30 9 years ago

I wouldn't take out the rubber stops.

Also, I don't think it's typical to be able to backhand the L ramp (Legolas) from a cradle. I have played only one other LOTR that allowed you to do this of the more than dozen I've played around the world.

#31 9 years ago

On a comical note, I failed one shot away from a return trip to Valinor the other night -- couldn't get my second ring shot in DTR to go through (with all the other Valinor qualifications complete). Wanted to show off for my kids who hadn't been around for other visits to Valinor -- instead, I was showing them how to best show your frustration at your LOTR pin.

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Also, I don't think it's typical to be able to backhand the L ramp (Legolas) from a cradle.

Agreed on this, I believe they're speaking of backhanding Aragorn, which is a freaking must!

#33 9 years ago

Same here, Left (Legolas) get pretty far up and makes the whoosh noise, but comes back. Right Aragorn / sword ramp if a clean shot goes up pretty solid.

#34 9 years ago

Upgraded to the pinballlife coils in my LOTR, it's a must imho.
LOTR is one of the few pinball machines that become ''marathon'' like, and those crazy multiballs just can't handle the stock coils, way too many times on many different machines they just go soft.

Sure, there are times that these extra powered coils give too much oomph for a shot, but the power is always on tap and there when you need it most

#35 9 years ago

I never had an issue making it up the ring ramp from a cradle with the old coils until way into a marathon game.
What are your flipper power settings set to in the menu?

The new coils are overpowered at first but quickly settle down as they heat up. Negatives are the ball might jump too high and not into the ring hole for a bit. And the gimli hole is a bit harder to make as the ball bounces past it. But the game is much more fun now IMO.

#36 9 years ago

I used to get those mushy flippers after a long game as well. The PBL coils gave a permanent fix to that. I can also make the Aragorn shot from the right flipper and every once in a while I can get the Legolas from the left. They certainly have plenty of snap to them. There's nothing worse than squandering a chance at Valinor because your flippers became weak.

#37 9 years ago

First game after installing the pbl coils, I got taba. It's now a regular occurrence. The new coils opened up the game for me...although still far from Valinor.

#38 9 years ago

Zip tie some fans on the original coils. Plug them into the 12 volt line at the coin door. Works perfectly for very long games.

9d0be7eeae5bead9aeb0562ee992446b.jpg9d0be7eeae5bead9aeb0562ee992446b.jpg
#39 9 years ago

Kinda surprised at this--my stock LOTR LE has nice strong flippers that don't fade after long stretches of continuous play. One issue with the upgraded coils is (IMO) that they make many shots too easy. It should NOT be easy to make backhand ramps, and the center ring should be makeable from either filpper, but ONLY for an accurate/clean shot up the middle. Check the center ramp alignment and make sure the spinner is loose so that nothing up top is slowing the shots down.

#40 9 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

One thing of note, if you are using Superbands it will be harder to backhand the sword ramp.

My LOTR has Superbands installed, and I hit the sword ramp with backhand shots pretty regularly.

#41 9 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

My LOTR has Superbands installed, and I hit the sword ramp with backhand shots pretty regularly.

Same here. In general I find backhanding slightly easier with SBs, they have that little bit of extra snap.

#42 9 years ago

Backhanding the sword ramp is an easier shot for me than from left flipper. Ring shot no problem from either. Left ramp cannot be backhanded on my pin, nor the other 2 LOTRs I've owned.

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

Left ramp cannot be backhanded on my pin, nor the other 2 LOTRs I've owned.

I've done backhands to the left ramp, but very rarely, and usually off of rebound coming down the right orbit, where the ball had prior momentum.

#44 9 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

I've done backhands to the left ramp, but very rarely, and usually off of rebound coming down the right orbit, where the ball had prior momentum.

Yep, exactly the same here on the backhand situation, i was talking about the aragorn ramp, not legolas, not expecting that shot.

I've replaced the rubbers with slightly thinner versions, gives me a little extra stroke for now, which gives enough power but makes the loop orbits harder to aim for.

Coils have been ordered, seeing that everything has been checked, tweaked and inspected to function normally, because after long play, the power fades and the extra stroke wont cover it anymore.

need al the help you can get on this game to get anywhere

#45 9 years ago

I have two fans installed to cool the flipper coils and eliminate the previously inevitable power fade. That made the game much more playable, and along with the SuperBands, made the shots more accurate all around.

#46 9 years ago

OP, I agree: it would be VERY frustrating not to be able to backhand the Aragorn ramp (let alone the ring). I'm not a big fan of shooting the Aragorn ramp from the left flipper... just too many odd bounces when I don't hit it cleanly.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 30.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RamMods
 
From: $ 109.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinWorlds
 
$ 50.00
Playfield - Protection
Duke Pinball
 
$ 25.00
From: $ 93.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinWorlds
 
$ 41.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
 
$ 18.95
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 9.99
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 12.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 130.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Dijohn
 
From: $ 99.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RGP Models
 
$ 30.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 130.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Dijohn
 
€ 7.50
Playfield - Decals
Pin-Decals
 
€ 7.50
$ 120.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
 
From: $ 40.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RamMods
 
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 182.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinWorlds
 
$ 12.99
Lighting - Led
Mitchell Lighting
 
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
 
14,500
Machine - For Sale
Red Oak, TX
$ 45.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 200.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
Lenticular Designs
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.