LOTR POD Mod Help

Hey guys - trying to do the same mod that ATOMICBOY did for his POTD. Was going to just purchase the mod, but I really like the idea of the figures individually turning on and off with 4 game lights for the POTD instead of staying for the whole ball play.

That said, I don't have a great deal of electronics experience or dealing with LEDs so I was hoping you all could answer some questions for me and help me make this mod myself. Here are my questions:
1. IMG_3835.JPG These are the LED's I plan on using. They are 5mm green. Do I need to use a resistor in in line with them, or am I ok since I am tapping off of the 4 lights already?
2. The original 4 lights have one common ground lead. Should I hook these LEDs up the same way with one ground lead in series between them? I assume so.
3. I really don't want to splice the connections. I know I can probably shove real hard and push another wire into the connector, but I know it will be a PITA, a tight fit, and might mess up the connections there already. What I would like to do if they are available, is to get a connector that I can insert the wires from the LEDs into and then put in between the stock connector. Basically a connector with one female and one male side so I can put it in between the connector below and piggy back off of it. Hope that makes sense.
IMG_3834.jpg

Thanks in advance for any help.

#2 10 years ago

WJE

gorgar007

Pinhead Mods

Saginaw, MI

11y 64,800 456 4 12

Diodes will be needed not resistors. If a diode is not used it will light up lamps on the same matrix row/column.

#3 10 years ago

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toro1966

Pinside member

Quoted from gorgar007:
Diodes will be needed not resistors. If a diode is not used it will light up lamps on the same matrix row/column.

Not sure I understand. I want these LEDs to light at the same time their respective light in the the 4 light board. If these are connected inline, how would they light another light in the lamp matrix?

#4 10 years ago

WJE

gorgar007

Pinhead Mods

Saginaw, MI

11y 64,800 456 4 12

Guess it depends on where you wire the lamps into. If you somehow wire them into the lamp sockets you can leverage the existing diode (see the attached image, the diode is included inside the stern sockets). If you wire them in elsewhere, youll need your own diodes.

The connector you showed is back upstream of the lamp diodes so if you connect there without diodes, you will have lamp issues.

IMG_20131231_130211_095.jpg

#5 10 years ago

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toro1966

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Ok - I see the diode in the socket in the pic, and you are correct, my plan is to insert these BEFORE those sockets - actually, in the connector those sockets attach to - which is in my pic. I guess now the question would be which diode and how to wire them up - as well as, do they make the connector I need to tap into the connector in my pic?

#6 10 years ago

WJE

gorgar007

Pinhead Mods

Saginaw, MI

11y 64,800 456 4 12

Standard diode: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=173

Not sure on the connector if it's even possible but hopefully someone will chime in.

#7 10 years ago

???

Atomicboy

Inactive member

That's what I did, straight into the socket, pushed additional wires in, snug fit, and required a lot of work to make it fit. In retrospect, might be easier to remove the wires from there, crimp the new one with the original together with a single wire going into the sockets.

The LEDs are sort of like CT super type, but just the little square head, with leads out of them, so they lay almost flat, and I glued them under the figures, on the POTD.

#8 10 years ago

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toro1966

Pinside member

Quoted from gorgar007:
Standard diode: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=173
Not sure on the connector if it's even possible but hopefully someone will chime in.

Thanks. I'll be honest - still not sure what the diode will do. I know it needs a resistor in line because of the voltage but that was all I thought it needed.

Quoted from Atomicboy:
That's what I did, straight into the socket, pushed additional wires in, snug fit, and required a lot of work to make it fit. In retrospect, might be easier to remove the wires from there, crimp the new one with the original together with a single wire going into the sockets.
The LEDs are sort of like CT super type, but just the little square head, with leads out of them, so they lay almost flat, and I glued them under the figures, on the POTD.

Thanks AB. I definitely don't want to cut any wires. I know how to and I have the correct crimping tools, but I would like to keep the stock harness the same. That's why I am trying to find a connector that will work. I need to basically take the 5 wire input and split it into 10 wire output (5 for the original lights, and 5 for the leds).

Also - if I understand correctly, in this plug, the red wire is the hot (+5v) and the different yellows are the grounds - correct?

Thanks.

#9 10 years ago

???

Atomicboy

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from toro1966:
Thanks AB. I definitely don't want to cut any wires.

If you pulled the wires, and crimped them each with a lead of the LED, and a lead to go into the socket that you removed each from, that would work, and not require cutting, and could be reversible. There are all kinds of electrical options for crimping a couple wires, but I do not know what they are called.

OP
Quoted from toro1966:
Also - if I understand correctly, in this plug, the red wire is the hot (+5v) and the different yellows are the grounds - correct?

No, they are row and column wires in the lamp matrix. Do you know how the matrix works? (insert blue and red pill joke here).

I believe the LED's I used were non-polarized, and thus it didn't matter which of the two I tapped into, as coming out of the socket, you are already behind the diode in there, and these are just and extension of the light already connected in the light board.

#10 10 years ago

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toro1966

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Quoted from Atomicboy:
If you pulled the wires, and crimped them each with a lead of the LED, and a lead to go into the socket that you removed each from, that would work, and not require cutting, and could be reversible. There are all kinds of electrical options for crimping a couple wires, but I do not know what they are called.

Thanks. I actually have that part figured out. A buddy made an adapter harness for me. This will split the signal from the incoming 5 pin harness to both the 5 pin harness for the original lights as well as the 5 pin harness that will be coming off of the figures/leds. It looks like this:
photo(1).JPG

Quoted from Atomicboy:
No, they are row and column wires in the lamp matrix. Do you know how the matrix works? (insert blue and red pill joke here).

I believe the LED's I used were non-polarized, and thus it didn't matter which of the two I tapped into, as coming out of the socket, you are already behind the diode in there, and these are just and extension of the light already connected in the light board.

Ok - this confuses me a little. There are 5 wires coming off of the light harness - a red and four yellows. Looking at the back of the 4 light board, it appears as if the red wire is common to all of the sockets and then there is a yellow to each. When I wire the led's up, there should be 5 wires as well. One that is common to each led (and that i may wire in series) and one from each individual led. I just am trying to figure out if the common wire/lead (which appears to be the red one) is positive (+5) or ground. That way I know how to connect to the anode/cathode of the leds. Hope that makes sense.

#11 10 years ago

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toro1966

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Ok - just looked up the lamp matrix in the manual. It appears that the red/gray wire is indeed the ground and is common to all of the four POTD lamps. So now the only thing I am not completely sure of is whether or not I need to wire in a diode or just the resistor. I plan on wiring the cathode s of the LEDs in series and then one from each anode. I'll wire those into a 5 pin .156 housing and then hook it into the adapter above. With respect to the size of resistor to wire in, I know how to calculate it knowing the input voltage. According to the manual that is 18v. See every high to me.

Can anyone confirm whether a diode or just a resistor is required?

#12 10 years ago

MIL

Inactive member

Cessnock

11y 38,400 563 8 32

Hi toro ,
I have my LOTR wired up exactly how you want yours to be with 4 characters and each is wired to a separate corresponding green globe from the plastic at the back of the PoTD .

I can't remember how I exactly done it , but I do know that I had to solder an in-line resistor for each character led and there was a connector joined in somewhere .

I'll see if I can get some pics / info from mine and report back .

#13 10 years ago

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toro1966

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Thanks Mil! Would be great to see your pics. Also, how you ran your wires around the mini-pf.

#14 10 years ago

???

Atomicboy

Inactive member

the wires are from the lamp matrix. If there is one common, that means that they are all either in the same row or column. I don't have the manual in front of me, but look through that and you will see what I mean.

If you tap into the wires prior to the diode in the socket for the light board, you will need to install diodes in the same fashion for the new LED. I'm not sure why resisters where used by anyone, the blocking diode stops the rest of the column/row of that particular light from being powered in he process, and thus lit/turned on.

If you tap into the sockets where the wires go in, you do not have to worry about the diode.

#15 10 years ago

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toro1966

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I promise I'm not trying to be dense, but I still am not sure how a diode attached to each figure's LED is going to prevent them from all lighting at the same time. I know they are all in the same row in the matrix. Are you saying that a signal is sent to all of the four lamps on the light board at the same time? And even if so, the diode on each wouldn't know when to let the signal through to the others.

And the reason for the resistors is to prevent the LED From blowing since it has a forward voltage of about 2.2 and the input is about 7v (6.3). You need to step that voltage down.

#16 10 years ago

???

Atomicboy

Inactive member

I see what you are talking about for the voltages and the resister. Mione I think where 12v, and worked (surprisingly).

The matrix closes a circuit on a row and a column at the same time. This will always intersect with one particular "cell" in the matrix, (ie, row 5, and column 7 lights whatever single light in the light matrix). If the diodes were not present, this would light all the remaining lights in the row and column, or at least back to the last light without a diode. The diode allows the current to flow to only that particular one cell, and stops it from lighting anything else in the row/column.

If you tap into the matrix before the diode in the socket, there is nothing for each of those lights to prevent voltage from backtracking to the next light behind it. If you tap into the light circuit ahead of the diode (as in directly from the wires in the socket, protected by the diode), the diode then stops voltage from travelling backwards for both the original light, and the new LED.

#17 10 years ago

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toro1966

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I guess what's confusing me is that an LED is a diode. So why do I need to wire a separate diode into the circuit. I understand the light matrix, and why the original 4 light board sockets need the diodes. But again, an LED is a diode and should function as one.

#18 10 years ago

???

Atomicboy

Inactive member

Ok, well, I don't know about that. There are polarized and no-polarized LED's, I'm not sure if a polarized one will also not allow current in the other direction, but something tells me a diode will still be needed. Just try it, the worst that will happen is you will see multiple controlled lamps on at the same time, and you will have to alter it after, it won't screw anything up.

#19 10 years ago

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toro1966

Pinside member

Cool. Thanks. Last question - can't seem to get a good reading on my multimeter for that connector to check the input voltage (so I know what size resistor to solder in). The matrix shows 18v - but it can't be supplying 18v because the 555 wedge bulbs would be blown. Any idea what the voltage that is supplied to the original 4 light board is?

#20 10 years ago

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toro1966

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FSLL1WViACg

OK, I built a test harness to check and see if it works. These are LEDs with a 330ohm resistor. I did not install any diodes. Check out the video below. This is in attract mode. Though I didn't put it into game mode - it appears to operate as it should.

Only issue I have now is that I don't think the LEDs are bright enough. They have the proper resistance (I believe) but the LEDs themselves are not bright enough. I think I am going to order some brighter ones, I just am not sure which ones to get. Any ideas? They have to fit inside the figures.

#21 10 years ago

MIL

Inactive member

Cessnock

11y 38,400 563 8 32

Hi toro . Finally got around to looking at my PoTD Army of the Dead set-up today .

OK . Here's how I did mine :

I have the set of 3 figures plus one extra to make 4 :

You can see the figure at the back right and front left are the same but one is holding a spear and the other a sword . The King of the Dead is at the back left and the 4th character ( with axe and shield ) is front right . To mount the led's in them I glued them in using Ultra Clear Araldite . The wires I ran directly from each figure to under the PoTD and then ran them along with the rollover switch wires to the back of the PoTD .

Army of the Dead figures.JPG

I wanted the PoTD to still be easily removable in case I had to get under it to clean etc. so I wanted to put a connector in-line with the wires from the AoTD characters . I found the easiest way to achieve this was to take the original IDC connector running to the PoTD , remove the wires and refit them but have 1" or so of wire hanging through the connector . I then attached a 6-position connector to these original wires .

Pics:

This one shows the original IDC connector with the wires extended through it and the other connector attached :

Army of the Dead Connector 1.JPG

The led's I used ( look similar to yours , but hard to tell from a photo ) needed to have a resistor installed in-line for the simple reason that if they didn't have one the led's would blow straight away . The size of the resistor you need depends on what type of led you use and what voltage you have coming from the original globes .

Here's a photo which shows one of the resistors ( covered in heat shrink ) in the harness coming from the AoTD characters . There is a resistor in each wire for each character .

Army of the Dead Harness.JPG

This next photo shows how the wires coming from the characters connect into the connector .

You are correct in saying that there is a common + line to each light and separate signal line .

Here on the connector you can see there are 4 wires ( 1 from each character led ) going into a single position on my new connector ( + ) . The other 4 wires coming out of the new connector run to each individual character .

Army of the Dead Connector 2.JPG

#22 10 years ago

JDS

judremy

Pinside member

Farmington Hills, MI

13y 67,800 2,213 5 8

OP
Quoted from toro1966:
Cool. Thanks. Last question - can't seem to get a good reading on my multimeter for that connector to check the input voltage (so I know what size resistor to solder in). The matrix shows 18v - but it can't be supplying 18v because the 555 wedge bulbs would be blown. Any idea what the voltage that is supplied to the original 4 light board is?

Most 555 bulbs are 6.3V, so you would think that would be the voltage, but I am not sure.

#23 10 years ago

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toro1966

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