(Topic ID: 244592)

LOTR Left VUK weak during play

By narflex

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by OzyPinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

I have an LOTR LE machine that I maintain at work and have been having a weird problem with the left VUK. During play, it'll have problems kicking the ball up far enough quite often....so I cleaned the assembly, that didn't help. I then got a new coil...and that unfortunately made it even worse so that it never kicks it far enough now. HOWEVER, it DOES work when it does the lost ball find. So if you hit it in there, then it'll try to fire the VUK a few times weakly...then it gives up...goes into lost ball mode and easily smacks the ball up to where it should be.

I tried changing the #33 setting for coil strength...and that didn't help at all. Clearly the machine has a way to fire this coil strong enough, it just doesn't want to do it during normal play.

Any ideas on how to resolve this?

1 month later
#2 4 years ago

I played my LOTR toady and noticed weaker performance with my VUK too...all 3 actually. I wonder if its a board problem...any pros out there that can help with understanding if the boards have any effect on VUK performance or will the problem with weak VUK always be with the VUK itself? Thanks in advance!

2 years later
#3 2 years ago

I am having a similar issue with my LOTR as well. The is only the shire VUK. Seems to be weak ~75% of the time, especially once it fails once, it will continue to kick up fairly weak. I am going to try adjusting the coil and sleeve, but is there any known/common cause for this?

1 week later
#4 2 years ago

Have we all checked the machines diagnostics ? No tech messages, no switch alerts ?

Pulling up the wiring matrix, is everything wired correctly ? Did a bunch of random stuff get Daisey chained to your vuk ?

Using a multimeter, are you able to find any strange high resistance readings ? Especially check the vuk wires, make sure your wires aren't crispy and not full of resistance.

In the backboard look for any crispy or melty connectors. Black stuff, etc.

I haven't been inside of a lotr for a long time, cant remember how the vuk is set up, if yall wanna snap a pic we could look at it and see if we notice something

5 months later
#5 2 years ago

Did anyone get any resolution on this? My left VUK does the same but usually only during multiballs when other power is in use on the playfield.

6 months later
#6 1 year ago

I had a client call me with this same issue.
Has anyone ever found the root cause?
Has anyone tried a "factory reset"?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

1 week later
#7 1 year ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

I had a client call me with this same issue.
Has anyone ever found the root cause?
Has anyone tried a "factory reset"?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I’ve just run into the exact same issue here Chris. Factory reset didn’t make a difference Game is running a new Rotten Dog Board. I’m going to reinstall original board and see if there’s a difference

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from swampy:

I’ve just run into the exact same issue here Chris. Factory reset didn’t make a difference Game is running a new Rotten Dog Board. I’m going to reinstall original board and see if there’s a difference

Well that’s interesting. Original board put back in the machine and the left VUK works perfectly. Take out of that what you will.

Anybody else with the issue running an aftermarket board?

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from swampy:

Well that’s interesting. Original board put back in the machine and the left VUK works perfectly. Take out of that what you will.
Anybody else with the issue running an aftermarket board?

That is interesting.
You were using a RottenDog MPU, right?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

That is interesting.
You were using a RottenDog MPU, right?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

It’s a new Rotten Dog driver board. This one:

http://www.rottendog.us/?product=sdb004

Original CPU board still installed, and now also the original (repaired) driver board.

5 months later
#11 1 year ago

I thought I would add my two cents to this post.
I am the customer Chris is talking about. I fought with this exact issue on a customers LOTR for a solid week and began to feel pretty helpless even though I am what would be considered a pretty competent tech. I changed the coil, rebuilt the mech, rebuilt the connector at the board, replaced the mosfet and the 74HCT273 on the power driver, swaped out the CPU, burned a new CPU ROM, swaped the PAL, replaced the RAM, swaped the driver board and painstakingly checked continuity on all chip circuits as well as check for correct activity on all chips with a logic probe. Not all necessarily in that exact order, but that is the list non the less. My tech friend (with 50 years experience) and I swaped the CPU board into an Elvis that I had and it did the exact same thing with the coil that was associated with that driver on the Elvis (Q3 operates the left VUK on the LOTR and the left Drop Target bank reset on Elvis) in both machines it wouldn't fire at full power in game mode but worked great in test (the activation pulse is longer in test, which results in a stronger coil pulse). The only caveat to that test though, is that the coil on the Elvis drop targets is significantly larger than that on the LOTR VUK, so it is not overly surprising that it wouldn't activate it correctly. We gave the CPU a full prostate exam and decided to call Chris as a lifeline because if he hasn't seen it, it probably doesn't exist. Unfortunately, however, he had not seen it before and we had already touched on every possible solution Chris could think of. As a result, I finally decided to put a little more powerful coil in, so I replaced the 26-1200 coil specified in the manual with a 25-1000 and it works like a charm. I do not like solving this problem this way, but up sizing the coil should not cause a problem since the same Mosfets are used to drive much larger coils in the game without issue. I tried a few different coil sizes, testing to find the balance between the VUK being able to consistently kick the ball up into
the wireform and not beating it to death and breaking the mounting tab welds, before I landed on the 25-1000. The best idea any of us have come up with at this point is that a combination of slightly worn mechanical parts, combined with a little higher resistance from aging wire in the harness, has resulted in enough of a difference for the coded activation pulse for the VUK coil to no longer be sufficient to fire it in game play. I hope this helps someone out there. Thank you to Al Williams and Chris Hibler for all the effort they put in in this with me.

1 week later
2 months later
#13 11 months ago
Quoted from Dusty_Driftwood:

I thought I would add my two cents to this post.
I am the customer Chris is talking about. I fought with this exact issue on a customers LOTR for a solid week and began to feel pretty helpless even though I am what would be considered a pretty competent tech. I changed the coil, rebuilt the mech, rebuilt the connector at the board, replaced the mosfet and the 74HCT273 on the power driver, swaped out the CPU, burned a new CPU ROM, swaped the PAL, replaced the RAM, swaped the driver board and painstakingly checked continuity on all chip circuits as well as check for correct activity on all chips with a logic probe. Not all necessarily in that exact order, but that is the list non the less. My tech friend (with 50 years experience) and I swaped the CPU board into an Elvis that I had and it did the exact same thing with the coil that was associated with that driver on the Elvis (Q3 operates the left VUK on the LOTR and the left Drop Target bank reset on Elvis) in both machines it wouldn't fire at full power in game mode but worked great in test (the activation pulse is longer in test, which results in a stronger coil pulse). The only caveat to that test though, is that the coil on the Elvis drop targets is significantly larger than that on the LOTR VUK, so it is not overly surprising that it wouldn't activate it correctly. We gave the CPU a full prostate exam and decided to call Chris as a lifeline because if he hasn't seen it, it probably doesn't exist. Unfortunately, however, he had not seen it before and we had already touched on every possible solution Chris could think of. As a result, I finally decided to put a little more powerful coil in, so I replaced the 26-1200 coil specified in the manual with a 25-1000 and it works like a charm. I do not like solving this problem this way, but up sizing the coil should not cause a problem since the same Mosfets are used to drive much larger coils in the game without issue. I tried a few different coil sizes, testing to find the balance between the VUK being able to consistently kick the ball up into
the wireform and not beating it to death and breaking the mounting tab welds, before I landed on the 25-1000. The best idea any of us have come up with at this point is that a combination of slightly worn mechanical parts, combined with a little higher resistance from aging wire in the harness, has resulted in enough of a difference for the coded activation pulse for the VUK coil to no longer be sufficient to fire it in game play. I hope this helps someone out there. Thank you to Al Williams and Chris Hibler for all the effort they put in in this with me.

Having this exact problem on two LOTR using Rottendog boards. Trying your solution -- Thanks for taking the time to write this up!

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