LOTR issue - PIN spotting me Frodo and mode start on new game??

Hey now, I have no idea how to begin troubleshooting this one. PIN has been working fine the last 3 months since installing the shaker motor and upgrading to 10.02 rom. Yesterday, when I boot up and start a game, Frodo is given to me automatically as part of the fellowship and a random mode starts before I even launch the ball!!!

This only happens at the beginning of the game, the "Ring Made" opto switch 47 works fine throughout the remainder of the game. I have tried unplugging\plugging and checking connections behind the rings etc. I have pushed in all the chips on the boards, issue still happens. This is a weird one boys, any suggestions?

By the way, I have no idea how to get inside the Ring to check out this opto, if anyone has done this before please share

#2 11 years ago

flashburn

Pinside member

Try spraying some canned air at the opto back there. If it's dirty it will act really flakey.

#3 11 years ago

DNO

Pinside member

Highlands Ranch, CO

11y 73,800 1,976 45

Probably flakey Balrog switch, test him while moving back like he does at the start of a game.

#4 11 years ago

flashburn

Pinside member

Quoted from DNO:
Probably flakey Balrog switch, test him while moving back like he does at the start of a game.

Balrog doesn't award those. It's definitely the opto he already mentioned.

#5 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member

Quoted from DNO:
Probably flakey Balrog switch, test him while moving back like he does at the start of a game.

Hey now, just noticed when playing today, that the Balrog is definitely acting goofy. Its hardly registering any hits etc. The awarding of Frodo happens when the Balrog swings out of the ring shoot lane at game start. Technically, these should not be related...Weird!

I am going to try spraying some air into the ring, its just a pain to get in there...

#6 11 years ago

JAR

jar155

Pinside member

North Salt Lake, UT

14y 114K 6,220 9 141

There's an option to award a Fellowship member at the beginning of each ball, but it shouldn't start a mode. And that character award should be random, not always Frodo. It definitely sounds like a bad opto, but it's weird that it only is firing at the beginning. You'd think that the magnet would be pulsing regularly throughout play and randomly starting more modes.

Still, I'd service that opto as a starting point.

#7 11 years ago

flashburn

Pinside member

Quoted from jar155:
There's an option to award a Fellowship member at the beginning of each ball, but it shouldn't start a mode. And that character award should be random, not always Frodo. It definitely sounds like a bad opto, but it's weird that it only is firing at the beginning. You'd think that the magnet would be pulsing regularly throughout play and randomly starting more modes.
Still, I'd service that opto as a starting point.

The magnet isn't activated by that opto, it's activated by the switch on the ramp.

That is interesting that the Balrog switch might be related to opto 47, no clue how they could be related to each other.

#8 11 years ago

JAR

jar155

Pinside member

North Salt Lake, UT

14y 114K 6,220 9 141

Ah, that's right, the magnet fires first and the opto signals a successful catch. Definitely sounds like just a screwed up opto, though shouldn't it still be starting other modes too?

#9 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member

Quoted from jar155:
Ah, that's right, the magnet fires first and the opto signals a successful catch. Definitely sounds like just a screwed up opto, though shouldn't it still be starting other modes too?

Agreed, if it was the opto on the ring it would be messing up all the time, not just at the beginning, this has to be something else. I am stumped at the moment. I have sprayed air into the ring on the opto, still happening. What's the best way to check the switch on the Balrog in the menu, its clicking fine when the Balrog moves etc with the power off.

#10 11 years ago

TAX

Whridlsoncestood

The Sanctum

Meriden, CT

12y 98,800 4,119 21 14 1

The one on location by me does the exact same thing. It happens about 65% of the time. Has been like that for some time. If it ever stops I will ask the operator what he did.

#11 11 years ago

JBK

rawbars

Pinside member

Myrtle Beach, SC

12y 48,800 371 5 1

Mine does the same thing. I get frodo and a random mode. It only happens on the first game I play after turning it on when the balrog swings out of the way of the ramp. If i immediately start another game and the balrog is already in place it doesnt happen. I have noticed at the end of fellowship multiball you can also start a mode by hitting the balrog before it swings out of the way of the ramp. I guess in that situation the balrog counts as a ring shot. The only thing i can guess is that when the balrog swings out to start the first game it is registering a hit. Not sure what to do to fix it.

#12 11 years ago

AMM

tonymiddendorf

Inactive member

Savage, MN

12y 56,400 1,905 1 141

I've experienced this issue a time or two as well. Probably only 3 times in 50 or so games ... I will be following this thread. Best of luck to all searching for an answer!

#13 11 years ago

KEN

fusion301

Inactive member

Somers Point, NJ

14y 53,900 2,119 13 7

I also have a friend whose LOTR does the same thing - at the beginning of the game when Balrog swings out it would register as if something hit him and award the mode etc. I never figured out what it was - all switches seemed to be functioning normally at the time.

#14 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member

For those of you where the same issue is happening, what CPU ROM version are you using? I am on CPU rom 10.02 and display version 10.00.

Do you have any mods installed that are hooked into the boards? I have the Pinball Life Backbox flasher Mod that activates every time the ball hits the spinner on the ring ramp etc.

I also have a shaker installed on this non LE that is working perfectly and is hooked up to the board.

Have you tried anything to fix it? Replaced the optos on the Ring, replaced the switch on the Balrog etc.

My Balrog has lost all responsiveness to hit so I most likely will be swaping out the switch here->
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2792

Thanks, we need to figure this out!

#15 11 years ago

MSY

Dr_Gonzo

Pinside member

Loveland, CO

13y 54,050 962 7

OP
Quoted from paulohotline:
Thanks, we need to figure this out!

See post #3.

#16 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member

Anyone have some insight on how to take apart the Balrog? Any tips they can share?

#17 11 years ago

JBK

rawbars

Pinside member

Myrtle Beach, SC

12y 48,800 371 5 1

I do not have a shaker installed but I do have the back box eye of mordor flasher kit in mine. Not sure what roms etc are being ran. Ive only had mine for about 6 months. This just started happening the last couple of months. It doesnt do it every game and after the start of the game everything works fine. It does take a nice solid middle shot on the balrog to register a hit. A soft hit or a hit to the side doesnt seem to always register. I assumed this was normal.

#18 11 years ago

flashburn

Pinside member

http://www.sternpinball.com/downloads/sb148.pdf

OP
Quoted from paulohotline:
Anyone have some insight on how to take apart the Balrog? Any tips they can share?

There are two screws, one on each side on the middle sides of his body.

#19 11 years ago

CAT

DCFAN

Pinside+ Frequent

Chantilly, VA

12y 148K 12,776 34

Page 87 of the manual shows a cover (20) having two screws and under that is the switch (9B).

#20 11 years ago

CAT

DCFAN

Pinside+ Frequent

Chantilly, VA

12y 148K 12,776 34

Here is a diagram:

#21 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2792

Hey guys, the issue with a Frodo spot and mode start is no longer happening on my LTOR... It also happens that Switch 28 - Balrog Hit is no longer working at all in the switch test Switch 31 - Balrog Open and Switch 32 - Balrog Closed, tested fine.

Guess what, I think this problem was related to a flakey Balrog Hit switch that finally died. I am going to try to replace it and will report back if the issue comes back but I think we may have a winner here. Congratulations DNO for the right call!

FYI: The manual says the SW part number is 180-5119-00, yet Pinball life is saying the part number is 180-5190-28. These are essentially the same switch right?

#22 11 years ago

CAT

DCFAN

Pinside+ Frequent

Chantilly, VA

12y 148K 12,776 34

Here is the part:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1548

#23 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member

Doh! Thanks dude for the verification, thought I searched on the part number with no hits, guess it was there after all!

#24 11 years ago

KEF

pinball_keefer

Jersey Jack Pinball

South Elgin, IL

12y 80,800 1,253 12

Quoted from flashburn:
Balrog doesn't award those. It's definitely the opto he already mentioned.

I know this has been figured out, but I want to reiterate you are wrong, the Balrog absolutely awards ring hits.

#25 11 years ago

flashburn

Pinside member

Quoted from pinball_keefer:
I know this has been figured out, but I want to reiterate you are wrong, the Balrog absolutely awards ring hits.

Hell yeah, Keefer corrected me. Made my day.

2 weeks later

#26 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member

http://i75.servimg.com/u/f75/17/79/34/56/balrog10.jpg

Hey Now, I have swapped out the Balrog switch with a new one from Pinball life received today and I am still getting zero detection in the switch test in diag mode. I am not sure if its the diode that is fubared now. I am definately stuck now. I am escalating to Tier 2 support here in Winnipeg

I think I did a pretty good job of soldering this tricky switch into place! Too bad it did not solve the problem:

http://i75.servimg.com/u/f75/17/79/34/56/balrog11.jpg

#27 11 years ago

WSS

starbase

Pinside member

Novato, CA

11y 64,550 2,405 1

This happened to me yesterday(just installed shaker and 10.02 +10.0 + pal chip). Started game, Frodo acquired and Return of the King multiball starts. This is the first time this happened to me with 20-30 games since installing and no issue. Thought I was done messing with this game for a few days but I can see I am not alone and maybe bad chips?

#28 11 years ago

DNO

Pinside member

Highlands Ranch, CO

11y 73,800 1,976 45

Probably a break inside the shrink tubing where it bends back and forth.
check the wires for continuity between the connector and the switch.
Sometimes its easier just to take balrog off the game to work on this stuff.

#29 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member

http://i75.servimg.com/u/f75/17/79/34/56/broken10.jpg

Yep, you are right DNO, Found the break... how the hee haw does a wire break inside the shrink wrap? Next time I am breaking out the meter early instead of assuming its a flakey switch. Waited 2 weeks to get the switch and it was a damn wire!!!!!!

#30 11 years ago

JMG

Pintucky

Pinside member

Bowling Green, KY

13y 85,300 2,306 18

Quoted from rawbars:
Mine does the same thing. I get frodo and a random mode. It only happens on the first game I play after turning it on when the balrog swings out of the way of the ramp. If i immediately start another game and the balrog is already in place it doesnt happen.

Mine does the exact same thing!

Quoted from DNO:
a break inside the shrink tubing where it bends back and forth.

Guess I'll be checking this out this weekend . . .

#31 11 years ago

PSC

paulohotline

Inactive member