(Topic ID: 17249)

LOTR destroy ring problem

By bigdaddy07

9 years ago


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  • 64 posts
  • 35 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Kingoftron
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 64 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 years ago

OK, so I haven't had too many problems with my LOTR since I've owned it but, now I'm up against a strange one. When I go to DTR and the ring holds the first ball sending out a second one to knock it out with, the second ball fails to knock the first out. Instead, it gets stuck right behind the first ball in the ring. This has now happened to me twice during gameplay and once now after I took the glass off to test. Even with the glass off and I sailed the ball up the ramp at furious speed, the ball gets stuck again behind the first. I eventually pushed them both through and it kept them both in play. I kept sending balls up the ring ramp and it finally registered a DTR but, without knowing a locked ball out.

So, my questing (besides WTF) is has anyone else ran into this problem and if so, what was the resolve? is there some sort of opto back there that is failing to register? Thanks in advance for any input that my fellow Pinsider's can offer here.

#2 9 years ago

i have had the exact same problem. hoping to hear about solutions too!!!

#3 9 years ago

Change it to one ball in the settings. It is easier on the transistor also.

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

OK, so I haven't had too many problems with my LOTR since I've owned it but, now I'm up against a strange one. When I go to DTR and the ring holds the first ball sending out a second one to knock it out with, the second ball fails to knock the first out. Instead, it gets stuck right behind the first ball in the ring. This has now happened to me twice during gameplay and once now after I took the glass off to test. Even with the glass off and I sailed the ball up the ramp at furious speed, the ball gets stuck again behind the first. I eventually pushed them both through and it kept them both in play. I kept sending balls up the ring ramp and it finally registered a DTR but, without knowing a locked ball out.
So, my questing (besides WTF) is has anyone else ran into this problem and if so, what was the resolve? is there some sort of opto back there that is failing to register? Thanks in advance for any input that my fellow Pinsider's can offer here.

You can always run a switch test to see if all of the switches are working.

The code was updated to provide an option of factory default 2 ball DTR or 1 ball DTR. This way a ball would not have to be knocked out of the ring by another ball, but a ball would need to pass through the ring. So still all the switches would need to work.

Good luck.

#5 9 years ago

This does not sound like a switch error to me. It sounds like the ball just isn't being hit hard enough. I'd suggest also just changing the ball count in DTR to one ball instead of two. It's not quite as cool but it does solve the problem. On the latest firmwares, the default is now one ball due to this exact problem.

#6 9 years ago

Well, worst case I can set it to one ball. Is that what most LOTR owners are doing?

I have not had this issue until recently so, I wonder what changed. I thought it was flipper strength as well the first time this occurred so, I rebuilt them but the problem is still there. If fact on my test (with glass off) I flung the ball as hard as I could get away with and it still stuck there. It was sort of cool knocking the first ball out. Seems like there should be a way to fix it so, it works like before.

#8 9 years ago

I most certainly am NOT doing one ball DTR. That's what makes the mode so cool, is having one sit there while you try to knock it out with the other. I have the stronger coils, so maybe that's why I like it this way.

#9 9 years ago

I upgaded my flipper coils, never had a problem with the 2 ball mode... upgaded roms to 10.0x and switched it to the single ball to save my board... I wonder if your magnet voltage has gone up some how? more voltage to the coil may be making it stronger? does it hum now when the ball is locked? does the ball go back and forth in the ring or is it "solid"

#10 9 years ago

I purchased a NIB LOTR L.E. Factory setting was one ball DTR. I could never get it to work.It turns out that swith# 48 behind backboard did not work. Brand New Game 6,080.00. I ordered New switch #48 and installed.Now I can DTR. Make sure Spinner switch & # 47 & 48 all work. All must work to DTR. It sounds like the magnet is grabbing both balls.I am not much help. Just check allTHREE swithes.

0426122138a.jpg

#11 9 years ago

I have the same problem, it seems like it used to work better but lately the magnet is so strong it just catches both balls.

#12 9 years ago

I may be way off base, but it could be the balls are too magnitized after they have been in the game for a while. I had an issue with the balls sticking together on the right sword ramp, put in new balls and no more issues. Maybe that would be an easy fix ?

Bill

#13 9 years ago

One ball DTR is way better, I have same issues with 2 and it's just not worth ruining a good game cause of a technicality that often fails.

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Change it to one ball in the settings. It is easier on the transistor also.

meh, 50 cent part every two years, I wouldn't let that stop me if I wanted the feature.

My LE won't allow it. I tried to change it, but it won't do it, was this a revision change for LE's?

#15 9 years ago
Quoted from bbozzy:

it could be the balls are too magnitized after they have been in the game for a while

I second this. Throw in new balls and see what happens.

#16 9 years ago

Mine started to do this also and I did a few things; and I'm not sure which one fixed it lol:
1. Replaced the balls
2. Used a compressed air can to blow out the ring (I believe there's an opto sensor up there.
And
3. Tightened the screw behind the ring for the metal ramp - one screw, it was loose and seemed to keep the ball off balance when it lied in the ring.

I really think #2 fixed the problem. I'll have a closer look tonight when I play my LoTR.

#17 9 years ago

I have seen this on one of the Lords I had. It ended up that the spinner switch needed to be adjusted to be more sensitive. I believe that when the machine has a game "locked" in the ring, it releases the ball through longer pulses when the spinner switch is activated.

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

meh, 50 cent part every two years, I wouldn't let that stop me if I wanted the feature.

+1 i wouldn't be happy paying for a top machine where you can't use a such a feature it's made for

#19 9 years ago

. . . the machine has a game "locked" in the ring . . . Should read "the machine has a BALL "locked" in the ring"

#20 9 years ago

had the same problem, it's now on one ball for DTR, also i believe that balls are too magnetized i can tell when the 3 balls are in the Sword Ramp Ball Lock Guide they all stick together, i have to shake the machine to make them move.

i'm gonna have to change those.

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from dangermouse007:

Atomicboy said:meh, 50 cent part every two years, I wouldn't let that stop me if I wanted the feature.
+1 i wouldn't be happy paying for a top machine where you can't use a such a feature it's made for

Actually, it's not "made for" that feature anymore. The default settings have it disabled. The fact that you're enabling it means that the design teams know there are issues with the feature and you're taking your own risk to enable it.

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Actually, it's not "made for" that feature anymore. The default settings have it disabled. The fact that you're enabling it means that the design teams know there are issues with the feature and you're taking your own risk to enable it.

Does this mean the design team didnt get it right first time? Its a far more impressive feature if it was to work more reliably as obviously first intended.

The one ball seems 'well cant get the 2 ball to work so well just make it single ball" instead of a real fix.

#23 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Actually, it's not "made for" that feature anymore. The default settings have it disabled. The fact that you're enabling it means that the design teams know there are issues with the feature and you're taking your own risk to enable it.

That's a little... hyperbolic I guess I would say.

The reason it was put in is the number of games that went to operators was so high and it didn't quite live up to the level of reliability we liked to see. For a home setting, there should be no major issue at all with putting it on 2-ball play (and, in fact, is why the Director's Cut sets it to that - since I didn't agree with the new default setting). It most definitely was not "made" to be 1-ball, but it'll work that way in a pinch.

#24 9 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

The reason it was put in is the number of games that went to operators was so high and it didn't quite live up to the level of reliability we liked to see. For a home setting, there should be no major issue at all with putting it on 2-ball play (and, in fact, is why the Director's Cut sets it to that - since I didn't agree with the new default setting). It most definitely was not "made" to be 1-ball, but it'll work that way in a pinch.

Awesome. Thanks, Keefer for chiming in. Straight from the horse's mouth!

Regarding the reliability issue of 2-ball DTR, is there anything you recommend we should adjust (as owners of home-based LOTR) to improve the reliability?

And other than replacing the pinballs, is there a recommended solution for preventing the balls from getting magnetized over time?

Thanks again.

#25 9 years ago

I've never heard of a solution for magnetized balls. As for adjustments, probably the biggest thing is just to make sure that the ramp is aimed at a little above the ring hole (just a little) to account for gravity. When the magnet doesn't energize (such as for Ring Multiball) the ball should sail right through the ring no problem.

#26 9 years ago

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who really appreciates you coming to chime in from time to time Keefer.

I think it is absolutely the bomb having one of the team responsible for a game I just picked up on pinside.

And, might I add, what a stellar game it is!

Quick question, sorry if it's been answered before. Cave Troll option in software. Was the fellowship supposed to start with this? Why was it disabled? I think it's an awesome start to the mode.

Thanks!

#27 9 years ago

The cave troll is cool but extends the mb where I can't complete fellowship.

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from 6S3NC3:

The cave troll is cool but extends the mb where I can't complete fellowship.

It's doesn't extend anything. The ball saver remains active again after balrog part starts.

#29 9 years ago

Smokedog, Keefer answered the Cave Troll questions recently in another thread.

Found it: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-was-cave-troll-multiball-disabled-on-most-lotrs

#30 9 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Smokedog, Keefer answered the Cave Troll questions recently in another thread.

Awesome, thanks! Keefers' the man!

#31 9 years ago

I checked all my switches in the ring and they are all working. So, what I ended up discovering is that my spinner was bent outward some (not very noticeable) so that the balls going up the ramp were contacting the underside of it and slowing their ascent into the ring. I never realized it before as it made it up their when I needed but, not enough to dislodge the locked ball from the ring on DTR. I bent it back to where their is a slight inward tilt and now the ball zips right up there and the spinner really spins fast. I believe this has resolved my original issue. If funny how you get used to a problem and fail to notice it until it starts to effect something major.

Also, during my probing I discovered there is a flasher behind the ring! It was burnt of course so, I replaced it with a red one. I don't think this had worked since I owned the game so a little bonus.

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I checked all my switches in the ring and they are all working. So, what I ended up discovering is that my spinner was bent outward some (not very noticeable) so that the balls going up the ramp were contacting the underside of it and slowing their ascent into the ring. I never realized it before as it made it up their when I needed but, not enough to dislodge the locked ball from the ring on DTR. I bent it back to where their is a slight inward tilt and now the ball zips right up there and the spinner really spins fast. I believe this has resolved my original issue. If funny how you get used to a problem and fail to notice it until it starts to effect something major.
Also, during my probing I discovered there is a flasher behind the ring! It was burnt of course so, I replaced it with a red one. I don't think this had worked since I owned the game so a little bonus.

The flasher bulb behind the ring will likely fail often from the vibrations. An LED flasher will solve that problem.

#33 9 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

So, what I ended up discovering is that my spinner was bent outward some (not very noticeable) so that the balls going up the ramp were contacting the underside of it and slowing their ascent into the ring.

I encountered this same issue -- but to an even greater extent -- on the LOTR I used to play on route in the St. Louis area. The lower side of the spinner was bent so far outward that it would actually reject shots to the ring ramp on a frequent basis, making mode starts, collecting gifts, ring multiball, and DTR very frustrating.

When I brought to the attention of the operator, I was told this was part of the design. I disagreed... and quit talking with the op, and quit playing their LOTR.

#34 9 years ago

Just got done rebending the spinner. Mine was sticking out at a bad angle causing lose of momentum up the ring ramp and some rejections. Now it is angled in a bit, but all balls fly up the ramp. In fact, sometimes the magnet doesn't turn on in time to grab the ball and it goes right through. Thanks for the advice!

#35 9 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Awesome, thanks! Keefers' the man!

Agreed, awesome to have Keefer on here!

#36 9 years ago

I put a fresh set of balls in my LOTR last weekend. The original ones were magnetised and had been jamming on the sword ramp and in the trough. I too have noticed that during a 2 ball DTR I can now knock out that first ball from the ring a lot easier than before.

The Ring flasher lamp had blown on my game too, I wouldn't have noticed it if it hadn't been for this thread. Flasher lamp now replaced with a red incandescent one and is working fine now. Thanks guys!

Again, thanks to Pinball_Keefer for taking the time to occasionally chip in with your advice and comments, it's very much appreciated as we all know you must be very busy at the moment.

#37 9 years ago

Wow I never knew there was a ring flasher lamp back there too. I replaced it with a red super LED but don't think I like red. What colors have you guys been using and find best? Plain ol white perhaps?

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Wow I never knew there was a ring flasher lamp back there too. I replaced it with a red super LED but don't think I like red. What colors have you guys been using and find best? Plain ol white perhaps?

A yellow incandescent flasher seems the brightest. I have all LEDs in the machine otherwise. But this particular Yellow flasher seems brighter as an incandescent.

#39 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Eskaybee said:Wow I never knew there was a ring flasher lamp back there too. I replaced it with a red super LED but don't think I like red. What colors have you guys been using and find best? Plain ol white perhaps?
A yellow incandescent flasher seems the brightest. I have all LEDs in the machine otherwise. But this particular Yellow flasher seems brighter as an incandescent.

I was kind of thinking yellow in the back of my mind. I think I have a spare ultra I'll try tonight. Thx

Btw, how do you like LEDs in LoTR? I'm a fan of LEDs but for this particular title I liked the musty feel of incadescents.

#40 9 years ago

I like LEDs in my pins but don't think LOTR needs them.

3 weeks later
#41 9 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

I've never heard of a solution for magnetized balls. As for adjustments, probably the biggest thing is just to make sure that the ramp is aimed at a little above the ring hole (just a little) to account for gravity. When the magnet doesn't energize (such as for Ring Multiball) the ball should sail right through the ring no problem.

Brand new to pinball. Bought my first machine, LOTR. I believe it is an early release. I've upgraded the ROM adn got new pinballs. cleaned and waxed the field. I too have a bit of trouble making the ring shot, especially after playing for a bit. My spinner seems to be leaning with the bottom side forward and sometimes the ball just smacks it and doesn't even go up the ramp. other times it just slows it down. What is the best way to adjust the spinner? Can it be removed and adjusted, or best to adjust with it installed?

Also, when you say to make sure the ramp is aimed a little above the hole, how do you adjust the ramp? It seems to be attached fairly sturdy to the playfield. Thanks a lot for any help.

#42 9 years ago
Quoted from scasey:

I have seen this on one of the Lords I had. It ended up that the spinner switch needed to be adjusted to be more sensitive. I believe that when the machine has a game "locked" in the ring, it releases the ball through longer pulses when the spinner switch is activated.

How do you adjust the spinner switch?

#43 9 years ago

Bend it like Beckham... (The arm of the switch that contacts the spinner.)

Get this little baby if you don't have one already, it makes life MUCH easier.

ulat.jpg
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518&parent=96

Lightly lubing the spinner arms will also yield surprising results.

#44 9 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

I was kind of thinking yellow in the back of my mind. I think I have a spare ultra I'll try tonight. Thx
Btw, how do you like LEDs in LoTR? I'm a fan of LEDs but for this particular title I liked the musty feel of incadescents.

I think every game is improved by proper installation of LEDs. I hate the full warm look of incandescents. For lotr you must use cointaker premiums. It has the worst ghosting of any machine otherwise and ruins the game because you won't know what you're supposed to be shooting at. Premiums or ghost busters solve this.

#45 9 years ago
Quoted from NimblePin:

Bend it like Beckham... (The arm of the switch that contacts the spinner.)
Get this little baby if you don't have one already, it makes life MUCH easier.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518&parent=96
Lightly lubing the spinner arms will also yield surprising results.

What should be used to lubricate the spinner arms?

#46 9 years ago
Quoted from judremy:

What should be used to lubricate the spinner arms?

Never lube these type of parts. Ever

#47 9 years ago

I have shopped out pins before only to have the spinners end up slower afterward. I swear that metal turns into a powder paste & makes the game better as time goes on.

#48 9 years ago

Never lube these type of parts. Ever

Huh?
Why is that? It's metal on metal.
Friction is the enemy when it comes to spinners.
I'm not telling him to use 3-In-One oil all over the place... Just some lightweight bicycle chain lube that doesn't attract dirt- such as my personal favorite, Dumonde Tech Lite.
Dumonde.jpg
I've used this product for years on my bicycle chains and there is nothing better for the specific application of soft metal on metal. Just lube these ---> p1000358.jpg two holes (with a drop of DTL onto a Q-Tip) where the spinner rests and marvel at how much more the spinner rotates. There is no gumming up the part, period. (Unless you put the lube on a filthy surface to begin with- as seen in this picture... )

You can get it at most bike shops Judremy or on Amazon if you don't feel like driving.
Just clean the spinner really well first, before applying.

#49 9 years ago

A pinball machine isn't a bicycle chain. These machine parts were made not to be lubed. Lube, any type of lube, only serves to attract dirt and will gum up over (short periods of) time.

If the parts were intended to be lubed, they would come lubed from the factory - much like a bicycle chain which comes greased.

#50 9 years ago
Quoted from SealClubber:

I like LEDs in my pins but don't think LOTR needs them.

Yup. LEDs kill the cool attract-mode fades. OTOH, I think it looks nice with some colored bulbs (green around POTD and slings, yellow near center/right ramps, *no* blue anywhere!).

There are 64 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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