(Topic ID: 184820)

Lost World: Probably Minor Issues


By Jeremy8419

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 37 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Crimp - Good (resized).jpg
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#1 2 years ago

Hi, I just bought my first pin: a Lost World. Seller said the top right board has a top right connector issue that prevents it from playing correctly, and he said I should buy a connector kit and a tool to crimp it. Could someone please provide a link? Currently, after moving it, it boots and flippers and scoring work when I manually load the ball, but it doesn't auto-load the ball when I start a new game, and the bottom bouncy things by the flipper don't work nor the lockout hole and the bumpers don't seem like they're doing they're thing right. Thanks! I'm really excited about this pin. I don't do nice stuff for myself often, so it's really nice to have something cool to call my own and enjoy.

P.S. I own a multimeter, but I'm retarded lol

#2 2 years ago

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1476/Bally_1977_Lost_World_Manual.pdf Is a manual. This will be very important. You are having solenoid board issues or connection issues. This is the board at the top right.

Check the fuses on the rectifier board (on right side of cabinet) especially F4. Check this fuse! There is also a fuse under the playfield near the wiring for the flippers. Check this fuse as well.

Check voltages on rectifier board on the test points (Put black probe on the ground braid strap on bottom of backbox and red on the test points with meter on DC Volts, Test point 4 is AC, but most are DC).

I have attached pictures from the manual that show the connectors from the solenoid board that you are having problems with, and the test points and the voltages you are looking for at the rectifier board.

If you look at Connector J5 on the solenoid board pin #14 is the right slingshot (bouncy thing by the flipper). The numbers on the schematics should be right, but notice that they are not in order. They are numbered on the schematics as they are on the board. It looks like you are missing a bunch of these solenoids, as well as out hole which is on connector J1 so I would suspect a fuse or connection of some sort. This could be the connector the guy was talking about.

If you read the manual you will see how to enter the diagnostics by using the buttons on the inside of the coin door. See page 13 of the manual. Basically you push the button once and the lamps blink on and off. Press it again and the displays display numbers, press it a 3rd time and the solenoid coils should fire and the displays should count which coils are firing. This is the solenoid test.

Report back with your findings!

edited to change F1 fuse to F4. I was tired last night.

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#3 2 years ago
Quoted from QuietEarp:

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1476/Bally_1977_Lost_World_Manual.pdf Is a manual. This will be very important. You are having solenoid board issues or connection issues. This is the board at the top right.
Check the fuses on the rectifier board (on right side of cabinet) especially F4. Check this fuse! There is also a fuse under the playfield near the wiring for the flippers. Check this fuse as well.
Check voltages on rectifier board on the test points (Put black probe on the ground braid strap on bottom of backbox and red on the test points with meter on DC Volts, Test point 4 is AC, but most are DC).
I have attached pictures from the manual that show the connectors from the solenoid board that you are having problems with, and the test points and the voltages you are looking for at the rectifier board.
If you look at Connector J5 on the solenoid board pin #14 is the right slingshot (bouncy thing by the flipper). The numbers on the schematics should be right, but notice that they are not in order. They are numbered on the schematics as they are on the board. It looks like you are missing a bunch of these solenoids, as well as out hole which is on connector J1 so I would suspect a fuse or connection of some sort. This could be the connector the guy was talking about.
If you read the manual you will see how to enter the diagnostics by using the buttons on the inside of the coin door. See page 13 of the manual. Basically you push the button once and the lamps blink on and off. Press it again and the displays display numbers, press it a 3rd time and the solenoid coils should fire and the displays should count which coils are firing. This is the solenoid test.
Report back with your findings!
edited to change F1 fuse to F4. I was tired last night.

Previous owner had said it's J3 connector that's bad.

No fuses on rectifier appear bad. Didn't see one by flippers.

Only solenoids 2, 10, and 11 fire. (Only goes through 1 to 11 solenoid before recycling)

TP1 5.5
TP2 220
TP3 14
TP4 6.3
TP5 44

This sure is fun lol. Used to "fix" old radios and junk electronics as a kid, but really just hopelessly broke them cuz I was a kid lol

#4 2 years ago

Oh, also, after I manually reload ball and just kinda pseudo play for a few minutes, the flippers stop working and stuff clicks in the back. Previous owner had said this was a relay turning off as a safety component or something to keep from frying everything else because the J3 connector is bad. This is what it was doing when I bought it, though the rest of the solenoid appeared to work correctly up until that few/5 minute mark.

#7 2 years ago

Notice how you are missing all the solenoids on the playfield from the list below? There is a 1 amp slow blow fuse under the playfield near the flippers. Follow the wires from the right flipper and one should lead you to the fuse. Be careful as those fuse holders are pretty weak. According to the schematic it looks like this is your problem.

Hopefully the fuse blew for no reason or a temporary problem and a quick replacement will get you up and running. If it blows again you have more fun ahead of you.

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#8 2 years ago
Quoted from QuietEarp:

Notice how you are missing all the solenoids on the playfield from the list below? There is a 1 amp slow blow fuse under the playfield near the flippers. Follow the wires from the right flipper and one should lead you to the fuse. Be careful as those fuse holders are pretty weak. According to the schematic it looks like this is your problem.
Hopefully the fuse blew for no reason or a temporary problem and a quick replacement will get you up and running. If it blows again you have more fun ahead of you.

I wish I knew how to read schematics like that lol

I found it. Was looking at the flipper buttons instead of the actual flippers.

This is blown right?

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#9 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeremy8419:

This is blown right?

YUP, it's a goner.
To confirm, get your DMM and set it to continuity and ohm it out. This tip works for fuses that visibly appear in tact but in fact may not be.
Always check fuse ratings in your machine against the manual and check them with your DMM for continuity.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beginner%27s_Notes

Quoted from Jeremy8419:

I wish I knew how to read schematics

Keep working on machines like this and you will be able to!

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

YUP, it's a goner.
To confirm, get your DMM and set it to continuity and ohm it out. This tip works for fuses that visibly appear in tact but in fact may not be.
Always check fuse ratings in your machine against the manual and check them with your DMM for continuity.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beginner%27s_Notes

Crap, I already left for Radio Shack lol

Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Keep working on machines like this and you will be able to!

If only I had got my Electronics merit badge... lol

#11 2 years ago

Okay, new 1 amp slow blow is replaced and the machine loads up and plays right. Now it's doing the original problem of when I bought it and the flippers stop working after a couple of minutes. Original Owner said it is the bad J3 connector which is causing the relay at 36/37 on solenoid board to disengage. Told me it was a common problem on bally of that era.

#12 2 years ago

OK, assuming the owner diagnosed correctly, J3 on the SDB does supply the ground side of K1 flipper enable relay. Intermittent K1 relay would cause both of the flippers to stop working simultaneously (not just one). Even thought there are other possibilities, now it the time to learn recrimping connectors - repin J3 and see if that solves the problem.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

OK, assuming the owner diagnosed correctly, J3 on the SDB does supply the ground side of K1 flipper enable relay. Intermittent K1 relay would cause both of the flippers to stop working simultaneously (not just one). Even thought there are other possibilities, now it the time to learn recrimping connectors - repin J3 and see if that solves the problem.

I don't think I am ready to solder new pins on yet. That's super advanced for me. My uncle can help me learn that when i get ready. If a new connector fixes it for now, then i know it should be repinned when i am ready. I am going to order a connector kit I was linked to on Friday (payday). Could someone recommend a crimping tool? Thanks. Yall are super helpful.

#14 2 years ago

Just for fun you should take some pictures of the connector and pins it plugs into. Honestly if you got the game from a guy and this fuse was blown I would question everything he said.

Sometimes the pins have cracks in the solder on the backside of the board. This can cause some similar behavior. You can redo the connector all day and if this solder is bad you will still have problems.

I would unplug all connectors and take the board out and look at and take pics of the backs of all the pins especially those in question.

If there is a crack reflowing the solder is not too hard.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from QuietEarp:

Just for fun you should take some pictures of the connector and pins it plugs into. Honestly if you got the game from a guy and this fuse was blown I would question everything he said.
Sometimes the pins have cracks in the solder on the backside of the board. This can cause some similar behavior. You can redo the connector all day and if this solder is bad you will still have problems.
I would unplug all connectors and take the board out and look at and take pics of the backs of all the pins especially those in question.
If there is a crack reflowing the solder is not too hard.

Fuse wasn't blown when I bought it. When I bought it, it was doing what it is doing now, with the relay disabling both flippers after a few minutes. Wasn't until I manhandled it into my house on blankets and plugged it in that it started having the issues that the fuse replacement fixed.

I'm going to do those fuse continuity checks you recommended tomorrow, and I will take some pics as well. I took a few of the connector earlier, but the lighting is bad in that room so I couldn't really see anything from the pics.

#16 2 years ago

If you can't tell the difference between a good fuse and a blown fuse, I recommend you hire a local tech to repair your pinball machine. You may do more harm than good.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from QuietEarp:

Just for fun you should take some pictures of the connector and pins it plugs into. Honestly if you got the game from a guy and this fuse was blown I would question everything he said.
Sometimes the pins have cracks in the solder on the backside of the board. This can cause some similar behavior. You can redo the connector all day and if this solder is bad you will still have problems.
I would unplug all connectors and take the board out and look at and take pics of the backs of all the pins especially those in question.
If there is a crack reflowing the solder is not too hard.

Yeah, this is a good idea. I was *assuming* the seller might have enough experience with his own game, and perhaps fiddled with the connector. You can start a game, and try wiggling the connector to see if causes the relay to drop out, but it would be a good idea to pull the board anyways...not only can you have a bad connector, but the solder joints on the board header can be cracked and needing to be reflowed, likewise with the relay itself - the repetitive vibration over the years can crack the solder joints on the back of the board. Only by pulling the board can you inspect these items.

The pic below shows how cracked solder joints on through hole pins look:

IMG_3469m_hdd-power-supply-solder (resized).jpg

#18 2 years ago

Continuity checks on all fuses was good.

Took pics of the board.

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#19 2 years ago

Look closely at the back of all the pins related to the flippers. They would be on J1, J2, and J3. You can try to gently wiggle them and look at the solder to see if any cracks are present. I would tell you to reflow them regardless if you had a soldering iron. I can't tell what is happening in all the photos, but I am sure you are learning by just looking at the board and how the circuits are laid out. You can see how any breaks in the electrical path can cause havoc. Also look at the relay's solder points.

Screen Shot 2017-03-29 at 6.21.50 PM (resized).png

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from QuietEarp:

Look closely at the back of all the pins related to the flippers. They would be on J1, J2, and J3. You can try to gently wiggle them and look at the solder to see if any cracks are present. I would tell you to reflow them regardless if you had a soldering iron. I can't tell what is happening in all the photos, but I am sure you are learning by just looking at the board and how the circuits are laid out. You can see how any breaks in the electrical path can cause havoc. Also look at the relay's solder points.

Picture 1 is J3 connector. Picture 2 is the full board. Picture 3 is J3 pins. Picture 4 and 5 are solder points for J3 pins.

Okay. I'll look for cracks and try and YouTube reflow examples.

Learning is fun lol

#21 2 years ago

The pins on your female connector look badly oxidized and dirty, they should look bright and shiny. For best reliability, you should repin them. There is very little surface area in contact with the male pins.

Also, these areas in the third photo could indicate cracking around the pins, but could be pooled flux. Just difficult to see in the photos.

IMG_0118 (resized).JPG
Image15 (resized).png

untitled (resized).JPG

#22 2 years ago

Ordered the female connector replacement kit today, as well as some kinda removal tool for it. I can see the oxidation now. 3 other of the female connectors on the solenoid board look new and are all shiny.

I tried staring at the back of the boards solder points for like 15 minutes, but I feel like I need special glasses or something to see that small lol.

2 weeks later
#23 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeremy8419:

Ordered the female connector replacement kit today, as well as some kinda removal tool for it. I can see the oxidation now. 3 other of the female connectors on the solenoid board look new and are all shiny.
I tried staring at the back of the boards solder points for like 15 minutes, but I feel like I need special glasses or something to see that small lol.

I use my iPad camera to blow up the view. Helps.

3 months later
#24 2 years ago

Finally got around to working on repining J4.

Got a Waldom 1919 crimper (red). Go to crimp, and every time I crimp, the connector tilts to the side as I crimp, and only one side crimps down. So, I'm like "wtf." Then I realize that 1919 is for .156 and I'm on a .100.

So, I got a Waldom 1921 crimper (yellow) that does both .156 and .100. Go to crimp, and again, every time I crimp, the connector tilts to the side as I crimp, and only one side crimps down.

#25 2 years ago

I think you have the connector in the crimper upside down. Try spinning the conector 180° and try crimping it again.

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from Thrillhouse:

I think you have the connector in the crimper upside down. Try spinning the conector 180° and try crimping it again.

I did actually accidently do this once, which made none of it crimp. The rest of the times I had it right side up. Out of 12 attempted crimps, only one actually crimped both sides of the wire crimp.

#27 2 years ago

Someone posted these a while back. They may help.

Crimp Squeeze (resized).jpg

Crimp - Good (resized).jpg

1 week later
#28 2 years ago

Well, repinned J3 female connector. Flippers don't work except when game goes through startup cycle. Score displays all gone now.

/rubs eyes

#29 2 years ago

Okay, ran those basic diagnostics again. All solenoids fire. No power on Test Point 2. F2 fuse is blown. Is this what is causing the display to not work? or the flippers?

quietearp wayout440

#30 2 years ago

TP2 = 230 volts DC, +/- 27 volts (203 to 257 volts). Fuse F2, diodes CR1 to CR4. Used to power the score displays. http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

3n. When things don't work: High Voltage Section Problems.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index3.htm#hv

The flippers are probably an unrelated problem. Is there power at either flipper coil lugs when in game play?
http://stevekulpa.net/pinball/bally_flipper1.htm

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeremy8419:

Hi, I just bought my first pin: a Lost World. Seller said the top right board has a top right connector issue that prevents it from playing correctly, and he said I should buy a connector kit and a tool to crimp it. Could someone please provide a link? Currently, after moving it, it boots and flippers and scoring work when I manually load the ball, but it doesn't auto-load the ball when I start a new game, and the bottom bouncy things by the flipper don't work nor the lockout hole and the bumpers don't seem like they're doing they're thing right. Thanks! I'm really excited about this pin. I don't do nice stuff for myself often, so it's really nice to have something cool to call my own and enjoy.
P.S. I own a multimeter, but I'm retarded lol

Congrats, that was my first game too.

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

TP2 = 230 volts DC, +/- 27 volts (203 to 257 volts). Fuse F2, diodes CR1 to CR4. Used to power the score displays. http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm
3n. When things don't work: High Voltage Section Problems.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index3.htm#hv
The flippers are probably an unrelated problem. Is there power at either flipper coil lugs when in game play?
http://stevekulpa.net/pinball/bally_flipper1.htm

Have to wait for some stores to open back up following the hurricane to be able to buy new fuses for F2.

All 3 coil lugs show ~45 volts on each coil.

Edit: Weird... flippers started working for no reason lol

#33 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeremy8419:

Edit: Weird... flippers started working for no reason lol

Perhaps while poking around to make measurements you disturbed something. Cracked solder terminal, broken or otherwise poor connection. Power is daisy chained so one connection problem can affect the power distribution to both coils.

1 week later
#34 2 years ago

Got my fuses in. All working well now. Time to start planning upgrades.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeremy8419:

Got my fuses in. All working well now. Time to start planning upgrades.

Rectifier Board Upgrades for AS2518-18 / AS2518-49 and Stern.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#ps

Upgrading the Voltage Regulator/Solenoid Driver Board.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#cap

Upgrading the Ground on the MPU Board.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#mpumod

2e. Before Turning the Game On: Ok, So You Didn't Do the Above. You BETTER do This!
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#minimum

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Rectifier Board Upgrades for AS2518-18 / AS2518-49 and Stern.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#ps
Upgrading the Voltage Regulator/Solenoid Driver Board.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#cap
Upgrading the Ground on the MPU Board.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#mpumod
2e. Before Turning the Game On: Ok, So You Didn't Do the Above. You BETTER do This!
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#minimum

If I am reading this right, the battery has already been run to wires to a battery harness that sits on the bottom of the backbox wood.

Would these be better to do than say redoing the pop bumpers? I watched some videos and it didn't seem too complicated, plus one light is out and they all 3 look pretty yellowed.

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from Jeremy8419:

If I am reading this right, the battery has already been run to wires to a battery harness that sits on the bottom of the backbox wood.
Would these be better to do than say redoing the pop bumpers? I watched some videos and it didn't seem too complicated, plus one light is out and they all 3 look pretty yellowed.

It is good that the battery is mounted "off-board", so that's one thing you don't have to address. All the mods mentioned in the links are to increase reliability of the electronics systems so you don't have problems later. Rebuilding the pops is good for strong, responsive play action...but to me not as important as tackling the heart of the electronics systems.

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