(Topic ID: 236071)

Lost key/ universal keys


By Daditude

3 months ago



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  • 59 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by DennisDodel
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#1 3 months ago

I just got a Bally Lost World with no key to the backbox. It does have a key to the coindoor (which is not original), so they do not match. The backbox lock looks to be original. There is definitely no key inside the machine or anything. I cannot see a number on the lock.

Here is my question:

Are there universal keys to these? Does anyone know what type of key this would use?

I am not drilling or unscrewing it. I am simply trying to find a working key.
Any help is appreciated.

EDIT:
Answered:
There is no universal key. Possible other keys may fit, however (fort maxi keys).
Drill out or unscrew it...or shave the key mechanism down for any key to fit.

#2 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Are there universal keys to these?

No, but more often than not, the locks can be picked. Spend an afternoon watching lock picking videos and try it on a new lock (older locks are harder since they are generally more gummed up. New locks have a lot better action and are easier to learn on).

If you can't pick it, drill it.

I've used both methods many times.

Once you have it open, but a new lock on. (As long as it's the same style lock, nobody cares if the lock is original or not, if that's what you're worried about).

#3 3 months ago

About 5 of my buddies and i went in on a bulk purchase of locks a couple years ago. We got them down to about $2/each and now all of our machines use the same key. Anytime a new machine enters the mix the lock is put aside and saved for when the machine leaves the group.

Coincidentally our locks matches the ones used in newer Stern backboxes so we can open any new stern and find our key.

We also take a lot of games to shows and events and carrying 1 key makes it easy to repair machines.

#4 3 months ago

I have access to the backbox and boards.

I am NOT going to drill or replace the lock. At all. I am strictly asking if I can find/use another key. If not, I wont worry about it...but I would prefer to have one.

#5 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I have access to the backbox and boards.
I am NOT going to drill or replace the lock. At all. I am strictly asking if I can find/use another key. If not, I wont worry about it...but I would prefer to have one.

Kinda silly but I understand if you just wanna keep it the same and not spend the money on it. I kept my locks the same for about a year before I went in and bought new locks and changed out all my games. It’s easier now with matching keys

#6 3 months ago

You can take the lock to a lock smith and have a key made up its not cheap. They should make you the same key as the original one.

#7 3 months ago

The original lock is a Fort "MAXI" lock & key. The lock is 1-1/8" long.

#8 3 months ago

There is not a universal key for pinball backboxes like there are for jukeboxes and other coin operated devices. (The coin boxes on those have unique keys but many models shared the same keys to the guts, making things easier for service people)
If I understand correctly, the lock is unlocked so it is not preventing you access. If you do decide you want a key, as mentioned before, if you take the lock to a locksmith he can cut you a new key for it. I would add that it doesn’t have to be expensive, they are really simple locks. My local guy only charges about $10/$15 to do it if I leave it with him.
Since it doesn’t have to be Fort Knox quality, you can also disassemble the lock, slide another key in the exposed cylinder (maybe your coin door key?) and file down the proud brass bits flush with the cylinder until it rotated freely in the barrel with the key inserted. Now you have both locks keyed alike and it will be secure enough for home use.

#9 3 months ago

Jesus christ man just drill the goddamn thing!!!

Don;t worry you wont tarnish the legacy of...hm...Bally's lost world

#10 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I am NOT going to drill or replace the lock.

Uh, can I ask why?

A new lock is less than $4.

Quoted from Daditude:

If not, I wont worry about it...

Does that mean you'll just leave it locked? You probably should open it to check on the battery situation, at the very least.

#11 3 months ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

The original lock is a Fort "MAXI" lock & key. The lock is 1-1/8" long.

Thank you!
I will look for one.

#12 3 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Does that mean you'll just leave it locked? You probably should open it to check on the battery situation, at the very least.

See post #4.

#13 3 months ago
Quoted from MrArt2u:

There is not a universal key for pinball backboxes like there are for jukeboxes and other coin operated devices. (The coin boxes on those have unique keys but many models shared the same keys to the guts, making things easier for service people)
If I understand correctly, the lock is unlocked so it is not preventing you access. If you do decide you want a key, as mentioned before, if you take the lock to a locksmith he can cut you a new key for it. I would add that it doesn’t have to be expensive, they are really simple locks. My local guy only charges about $10/$15 to do it if I leave it with him.
Since it doesn’t have to be Fort Knox quality, you can also disassemble the lock, slide another key in the exposed cylinder (maybe your coin door key?) and file down the proud brass bits flush with the cylinder until it rotated freely in the barrel with the key inserted. Now you have both locks keyed alike and it will be secure enough for home use.

I have heard that there are a few "limited" keys that were used. Perhaps not "universal," but just a couple of options that might have been used. 2 people told me this: a guy with well over 100 pins and another gentleman that has run routes for years and owned countless pinballs (hundreds...and possibly thousands).

I have full access to the backbox and the boards. I am mostly trying to get a key to lock the backglass in place and just for the sake of completeness.

I may just shave the lock mechanism down to allow easy access with a different key or I am exploring the fort maxi keys, as mentioned by a poster above.

If anyone has further info on a key that might work (no more drilling suggestions...please), then please do share.

#14 3 months ago

Just unscrew the cam screw and lock nut and throw in a new lock.

#15 3 months ago

or take out the lock and pull out all the waffers of the lock so any key that fits will work , even a screw driver

#16 3 months ago

if you have access to a 1382 or 7500 key, those are the most common keys used recently and the closest thing to a universal key these days (only if the game has had new locks in the last 10-15 years or however long Steve Young has sold those 1382 locks)

I have several coffee cans full of old pinball keys sorted by type that have never let me down when I get a game without keys. (not applicable to you but for the sake of others - picking the lock and installing a new one is a lot faster than going through the can!)

I've worked on several hundreds of games myself and I haven't run across the "limited" key unless a bunch of games in a certain geographical area were all keyed alike by an operator at some point, so it is very possible.

#17 3 months ago

If you look at the lock, is there a number (or letters) on it? If so, you may be able to order that key.

#18 3 months ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

The original lock is a Fort "MAXI" lock & key. The lock is 1-1/8" long.

where do you get these locks that have the square on the end near that the cam attaches to. Had a hard time finding anything, most old games I buy are missing the key or drilled out.

#19 3 months ago

What the hell man... if you are already in the back box you have access to the back of the lock. Just remove it and install a new barrel with a key you do have.

There is no “originality “ or whatever here to save. Just put in the $4 lock.

#20 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I have heard that there are a few "limited" keys that were used. Perhaps not "universal," but just a couple of options that might have been used. 2 people told me this: a guy with well over 100 pins and another gentleman that has run routes for years and owned countless pinballs (hundreds...and possibly thousands).

No... there are just common ones the people use. The number of key combinations they have is finite... but unless you know the barrels number you’re just brute force checking. Just replace the lock barrel and move on

#21 3 months ago

Being a locksmith almost my whole life these threads just crack me up.

#22 3 months ago
Quoted from Travish:

Being a locksmith almost my whole life these threads just crack me up.

They crack me up too... especially when I am trying to do something simple like check a key into a lock (and for people checking this in the future), and people continually and without reading say drill it drill it drill it well after I have stated multiple times that I will not be drilling it.

#23 3 months ago

You don't need to drill it. Just unscrew it and put a new one in. You won't have to mess with going on a fruitless scavenger hunt trying to find the one random key that might match.

Out of curiosity, why do you want to keep the lock so badly? It's not necessary.

#24 3 months ago
Quoted from Travish:

Being a locksmith almost my whole life these threads just crack me up.

I'm sorry. I cannot resist

Does this mean that you are a safe cracker?

#25 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I am mostly trying to get a key to lock the backglass in place and just for the sake of completeness..

Quoted from ForceFlow:

You don't need to drill it. Just unscrew it and put a new one in. You won't have to mess with going on a fruitless scavenger hunt trying to find the one random key that might match.
Out of curiosity, why do you want to keep the lock so badly? It's not necessary.

It is not that i want it so "badly." More like i stated above...it would be nice to have (not absolutely necessary).
It is also nice to have if i sell it down the road.

I was also asking just for future posterity of anyone checking these threads.

I looked tboroughly before asking in this forum, and there wasnt really anything that covered universal keys very well.

I like the idea of shaving it down so any key will fit it. A couple of posters mentioned possible options that i will explore as well.

#26 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I like the idea of shaving it down so any key will fit it. A couple of posters mentioned possible options that i will explore as well.

Yes but that can then let the tumbler drop down to far in the plug and the key will not go in. If you are trying to make a different key fit a cam lock and you do not have a keying kit, it's better to rearrange the tumblers (and possible leave one out) you do have to match your key instead of sticking the wrong key in and filing whatever's sticking up.

#27 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I am not drilling or unscrewing it.

Quoted from Daditude:

I am NOT going to drill or replace the lock.

Quoted from Daditude:

no more drilling suggestions...please

Quoted from Daditude:

and without reading say drill it drill it drill it

You've totally peaked my curiosity.....Did you have a bad experience with a cordless drill at some point in your life?

I'm just curious as to why you're so against it? It resolves your problem, takes 10 seconds and will cost $4. I just have to know......

#28 3 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

why do you want to keep the lock so badly?

Quoted from Daditude:

nice to have if i sell it down the road.

There is zero additional value with a particular lock. It's probably been changed by the previous owners already, you're not preserving the factory original.
Replacing it is the best option.

#29 3 months ago

Looking for a random key to fit a peticular lock. Sounds like a life quest, something that you do just to say that you’ve done it.

Build a pin from scratch > just buying the game
Build a car > just buying a car
Finding THAT ONE KEY > just buying a lock

Sometimes the easiest solution is the wrong one

#30 3 months ago

Drill baby drill?

#31 3 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

You've totally peaked my curiosity.....Did you have a bad experience with a cordless drill at some point in your life?
I'm just curious as to why you're so against it? It resolves your problem, takes 10 seconds and will cost $4. I just have to know......

No. Im just sick of people saying to drill it. Thanks for being another person saying to drill it

#32 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

No. Im just sick of people saying to drill it. Thanks for being another person saying to drill it

That's one of two standard ways to address a locked game with a missing key. That's why it had been suggested several times.

#33 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I am strictly asking if I can find/use another key.

Simple answer- No, you can not find/use a another key.

#34 3 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

That's one of two standard ways to address a locked game with a missing key. That's why it had been suggested several times.

I fully understand. I find it frustrating, however, when i have clearly stated that it will not be an option and people keep suggesting it...repeatedly...and not actually reading the thread...which has clearly now run its course...if not past.

#35 3 months ago

Personally, I think you're making more of a deal out of it than it has to be. Just replace the lock and be done with it.

There isn't a standard universal key. These locks can be keyed in thousands of different ways and there could be thousands of different keys. Without the key number, it will be nearly impossible to find a match. I keep a handful of recovered keys on-hand on the off-chance that they might open a lock when I'm picking up a game with missing key, but they never do. It's a lot easier and cheaper just to replace the lock, rather than going through the unnecessary effort and expense to have an actual locksmith come up with a replacement or re-key the lock.

Nobody cares if the lock is or isn't original. Operators almost always replaced them anyway to match their other games, so it's more likely than not that the lock is not the one that came from the factory.

As long as the lock is functional, that's all that really matters.

#36 3 months ago

Did you look inside your coin door and just inside the machine for the backbox key? Most the time they are hanging on the door or a hook just inside

#37 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

...and not actually reading the thread...which has clearly now run its course...if not past.

Oh I dont think so....I can tell by your replies there's lot of meat left on this bone.

#38 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

No. Im just sick of people saying to drill it. Thanks for being another person saying to drill it

Did you try drilling it? Its easy...

I see why you incorperated "attitude" in your name...

#39 3 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Did you try drilling it? Its easy...
I see why you incorperated "attitude" in your name...

Take the time to go back and look at this thread. There have been only 3 posts that have answered me appropriately, without asking or repeating something i have previously already stated...usually having stated it multiple times.

I think i have been quite patient.

#40 3 months ago

power-drill-1 (resized).jpg

#41 3 months ago

don't drill it ! lol

#42 3 months ago

3-5 minutes of my life I will never get back. Goofiest thread ever

#43 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

There have been only 3 posts that have answered me appropriately,

Those are just enablers suggesting a complex solution for a simple problem.

Your inability to just do the most reasonable thing is baffling

#44 3 months ago

You could just drill it out.

Sorry, slow day at work.

#45 3 months ago

This needs a poll
1.drill it
2.waste your life

#47 3 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Take the time to go back and look at this thread. There have been only 3 posts that have answered me appropriately, without asking or repeating something i have previously already stated...usually having stated it multiple times.
I think i have been quite patient.

Yes, you have been patient. But I think everyone is fascinated and trying to wrap their heads as to why you are fixated on this lock.

People restore pinball machines with repro new back glasses, new repro play fields, new posts, new rubbers, etc. And they will add new locks with nice shiny keys. And other than the lock working, I don't think anyone has ever given a hoot about a key lock other than "do you have the key, or do I need to bring my drill"?

You have your reasons---but we all are trying to understand.

And this is pinside; You are going to take some heat.

And people just love to see others twist in the wind

So, you need to grow some skin and get a sense of humor

#48 3 months ago

Also, you are aware that since it’s currently unlocked you can remove this lock without damaging anything? And that a replacement lock won’t differ in any way? They are all standard sizes, shapes, and mounting, and all look the same.

The only place you’ll even see a brand name for the lock is on the key (maybe) and possibly on the baggie it comes in.

Your local hardware store will even carry this type of lock and you could take the existing one with you to ensure you get one that has a bezel that looks the same.

I guess I am just really curious what is so important about that one specific lock with no keys, and what the downside is that you see in replacing it with a new one that comes with two keys? I think everybody is, actually..

#49 3 months ago

Take it out, take it to a locksmith, have a new key made, bring it back home and reinstall it.

#50 3 months ago

I am just curious too. Obviously you do not need to drill the lock if it is already open. I don’t understand why you don’t want to replace it. I think if you gave the reason as to why you didn’t want to replace it everyone would leave it alone. But hey what do I know lol. This is pinside so who knows

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