(Topic ID: 191035)

Lost GI After Messing with a Bulb


By Spyderturbo007

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Spyderturbo007
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 1 year ago

I was doing some work on my Safari and noticed that one of the bulbs wasn't illuminated completely. It would flicker on and off. I figured I would remove the bulb, take it out and put it back in again to see if that worked.

I powered off the game, unscrewed the holder from the PF, removed the bulb and then put it back. I must have forgot to put the screw back in and I powered up the game. The back box lights were dim for a second or so and then came on normally (that never happened before). The bulb is in a place where it couldn't have shorted anything out, but I wanted to throw that out there.

Unfortunately I have no GI in the PF now and have no clue where to start. How would I find the fuse? I see a few in the cabinet, but I'm not sure if they are the correct fuses.

I have a schematic if that's needed, but I have no idea how to read it.

The bulb on the right is the one I was messing with

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#2 1 year ago

The schematic should help identify the fuse values. Based on the pic you posted, I'm thinking the middle one is possibly it. Lamps are usually 6v. Do you have a multimeter? As a start, I'd pull the 6v fuse and check it for continuity. Fuses can look good, but actually be blown. On a schematic, fuses usually are signified by a wavy line between 2 points.

Edit: looks like values are right on the label next to the fuses. Make sure *all* fuses are the correct values while you're at it. The value of the fuse should be engraved on one of the fuses caps.

#3 1 year ago

Damn you're good! So the one in the middle is cooked, as long as I'm using this meter correctly.

The paper says 6V 10A. The one I pulled says 32V 10A. Yikes.

I'm assuming that's bad? It's a lot higher and it blew (for some reason).

There are two others. One fuse just says BUSS AGC 15. That one was in the other slot that says 6V 10A.

The third one at the top says BUSS AGC 10. That one was in the 50V 15A.

Looks like these are all messed up.

Do I want slow blow or fast blow? Can I get these things at an auto parts store?

#4 1 year ago

The 32 volt fuse rating is fine; it represents the max working voltage of the fuse. The current rating is the critical value, and yours was fine. It was probably cooked by an intermittent short.

The other fuses are 10 and 15 amp rating. "ACG" is the Bussman designation for a 1/4" x 1 1/4" glass tube fast-blo fuse; I believe 32v is the standard voltage rating for this type. The number represents the current rating, so you have 10 and 15 amp values (but I think they were reversed, and the one in the 50v circuit was probably under spec'ed if it is a standard 32v ACG type).

(Edit because I didn't see at first that your blown fuse is a slo-blo - the coiled fuse element identifies this.). The best approach is to see if the schematics specifiy which type, otherwise stick with slo-blo. Slo-blo fuses delay blowing by a slight amount in order to accommodate the brief current spikes which are inherent in some types of circuits such as switching on coils. A fast-blo fuse replacing a slo-blo will not cause any harm but can nuisance blow during normal operation. On the other hand, a slo-blo should never be substituted for a fast-blo, as the delay in melting can cause circuit damage.

Those are common values, but you will probably need to go to a hardware or electrical supply store to find slo-blo types as well as ones with sufficient voltage ratings for the 50v circuit.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Damn you're good! So the one in the middle is cooked, as long as I'm using this meter correctly.
The paper says 6V 10A. The one I pulled says 32V 10A. Yikes.
I'm assuming that's bad? It's a lot higher and it blew (for some reason).
There are two others. One fuse just says BUSS AGC 15. That one was in the other slot that says 6V 10A.
The third one at the top says BUSS AGC 10. That one was in the 50V 15A.
Looks like these are all messed up.
Do I want slow blow or fast blow? Can I get these things at an auto parts store?

You want slow blow fuse. The middle fuse (which looks blown) is a wire coiled up around a tube inside the glass fuse, those are a slow blowing type.

The voltage rating is a maximum type rating. Ie a 32v fuse should only be used in a circuit up to 32v. Most glass cartridge fuses now-a-days are 250v rated, well within you 6v lamp range.

Home improvement type stores might have the fuses. We have Menards around here and they carry a good selection of fuses including the one you need.

#6 1 year ago

Note also that the designation for fast or slow blow is often AGC (fast blow) or MDL (slow blow). To illustrate, here i have a box of 3 amp slow blow (aka MDL) and a box of 10-amp fast blow(aka AGC). In the next pic, you'll see the slow blow fuse on the left, fast blow on the right. Note the "beefier" filament in the slow blow fuse, while the fast blow has a thin strip instead.

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#7 1 year ago

It makes sense now. So I can use a fuse with a voltage rating the same or higher than defined by the circuit. As for amperge, it has to match what is defined by the machine.

It looks like the only thing I can find locally is fast acting.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

It makes sense now. So I can use a fuse with a voltage rating the same or higher than defined by the circuit. As for amperge, it has to match what is defined by the machine.
It looks like the only thing I can find locally is fast acting.

Bingo-you can go higher on voltage, but *not with amps*

Edit: you can also try hardware stores for fuses, maybe try calling around? If you lived closer I'd give you the fuses, i bought a ton from a local RadioShack before they closed.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

It looks like the only thing I can find locally is fast acting.

It might be a slow blow in there, but every EM I have worked on uses fast blow for lamps. Slow blows are general used on bank reset coils mounted under the playfield.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

It makes sense now. So I can use a fuse with a voltage rating the same or higher than defined by the circuit. As for amperge, it has to match what is defined by the machine.
It looks like the only thing I can find locally is fast acting.

You can safely use a fast blow in place of a slow blow, it just might not survive surge situations.

Considering how the lamps work and comments from posters above, fast blow probably will be fine here.

#11 1 year ago

Well, I found some 10A 250V fuses. As soon as I turn on the game, the fuse turns red and blows.

Any idea where to start? I rebuilt a flipper earlier and played a few games when I was done. Only after messing with that one bulb did this happen.

#12 1 year ago

If that one bulb is all you messed with, i'd check for a short inside that light socket. Those old bulb holders can get pretty crusty with age. Sometimes something gets inside the socket and can short it out too.

#13 1 year ago

Looking at your top photo, (bulb holder on the right) you may want to check that the tab to which the wire is connected is not touching the bulb holder housing (Looks that it is very close in the photo).
You could also disconnect the wire to the holder and power up machine to see if it is the problem.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from oldpins:

Looking at your top photo, (bulb holder on the right) you may want to check that the tab to which the wire is connected is not touching the bulb holder housing (Looks that it is very close in the photo).
You could also disconnect the wire to the holder and power up machine to see if it is the problem.

You sir, are a genius. I looked at that thing 30 times and had no idea that the tab couldn't touch the base. I must have bent it when I was pushing the new bulb into the holder.

I bent it back, turned it on and viola'. We now have GI!!

Thanks to everyone in this thread. I owe you all a debt of gratitude. This is my favorite game and I was out of sorts when I thought i broke it.

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#15 1 year ago

Good news !

#16 1 year ago

I'm wondering if while I have a few of you smart EM guys here I could ask about another issue I noticed.

What controls the light for the Ball number? I'm noticing that when it goes to Ball 4, the light doesn't come on right away. But, if I hit different switches, it will turn on and then off again.

I haven't correlated what switches turn it on or off yet.

It also isn't awarding replays, which I guess isn't a big deal since it's on free play.

I have the schematic, but it's literally 6' long.

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#17 1 year ago

I am not as familiar with Bally EM titles, I'm more a Gottlieb EM fan. From what I can see on the IPDB site, there are x 2 other stepper units in the backbox apart from the credit unit. I am confident that one of those units will control the 'Ball in Play' lighting. I would check that the contacts on the rotating disc/s are clean and making good contact.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

What controls the light for the Ball number? I'm noticing that when it goes to Ball 4, the light doesn't come on right away. But, if I hit different switches, it will turn on and then off again.

Coincidentally my Bally Rocket III of same era started doing similar yesterday. Per the post above, investigate the bulb holder itself and spider/circuit board on the "Ball Count" unit. This is my first EM and I like the way everything is conveniently labelled. Here's the Ball Count unit on mine. This game can be configured for up to 7 Balls so steps 7 units on one lever and total resets back to 0 on the other and the fingers on the spider complete the circuit to the relevant ball-in-play lamp.

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#19 1 year ago

I'm thinking I'm just having lamp socket issues. Anyone know how I'm supposed to get these bulbs out?

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#20 1 year ago

Now that I'm looking further, I think I'm missing parts from my Match Unit.

Should I start another thread since the GI portion is fixed?

All the other "units", for lack of a better term, look pretty much the same. However, my Match unit seems to be missing parts.

Add that with the random jumper wires and something appears to be wrong.

Here is the match unit. You can see some wires twisted together, making me think they ripped out parts and hot wires it together.

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This is what the other ones look like which makes me think I'm missing a switch stack, a second coil and a big spring.

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#21 1 year ago

Match unit doesn't need to reset so single coil and no return spring is correct.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Anyone know how I'm supposed to get these bulbs out?

Use an old shooter rod rubber

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Match unit doesn't need to reset so single coil and no return spring is correct.

So then just soldering the wires to the coil would be the only thing I need to do there?

I've never gotten a match before (at least that made any noise), nor have I ever been awarded a replay. For example, if I get over the 3700 point replay score listed on the card, the credit wheel doesn't move, nor does it make any sound.

Is it supposed to or not because it's on free play?

Quoted from newmantjn:

Use an old shooter rod rubber

That's a great trick. It turns out that it was just the bulbs that needed replaced.

I guess it was just coincidence that it happened at the same time I had GI issues.

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