(Topic ID: 114454)

lost all playfield insert lights ? on Black Rose

By TecumsehPlissken

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Lmp+R.jpg
test123.jpg
20150214_175709[1].jpg
20150214_175703[1].jpg
20150214_175657[1].jpg
cpu-col-row-enable.jpg
pdb-col-row-enable.jpg
20150110_210628[1].jpg
20150110_210619[1].jpg
20150110_113623[1].jpg
20150110_113615[1].jpg
20150109_181802[1].jpg
20150109_181753[1].jpg
There are 101 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 9 years ago

just did a game trade with my brother and this game was fine after setup yesterday and last night but played it just now and ALL of the insert lights in the playfield are out , checked all fuses in back box and looked under playfield at connections and on the light boards and ect....... cant find the cause....... any advice welcomed

#2 9 years ago

When odd things after a move; connectors, check fuses - the odd, sudden - seems like a connector, you might recheck these. This iss way out there and unlikely - but try taking out a bulb and check for continuity. I had a game short the entire circuit and blow bulbs - but NOT the fuse.

#3 9 years ago

Try removing/reseating the 4" ribbon cable between the MPU and driver board and also J133/J134/J135 connectors on bottom right side of the driver board.

#4 9 years ago

thanks for the weigh in's tried both of those suggestions ....... still checking

#5 9 years ago

Do you see all 5 LED's lit up on the driver board?
I am suspecting maybe 20 volts might be out since there does not seem to be a connection issue.

Also reseat J101 and J102 (input to the driver board from the transformer) to see if that helps.

#6 9 years ago

lost all G.I insert lights ?
These are 2 different circuits. If you only mean the Insert lamps not working on the playfield, then GI needs to be removed from your title. You can edit that through your first post.

#7 9 years ago

Did you use a DMM to check your insert fuses?

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

ALL of the insert lights in the playfield are out , checked all fuses in back box and looked under playfield at connections

He did say all fuses were checked. I hope he did mean that he checked them with a meter.

#9 9 years ago

checked all fuses with a meter for continuity as well as a visual check / check performed INSTALLED did not remove every single fuse to check as they don't come out easy and break easily / has a new rottendog driver board installed & YES!! I need to say that its not all of the G.I , just the insert lamps that are out

#10 9 years ago

Does your brother have any other WPC games? If so, I would swap that Rottendog driver to see if it is causing the issue.

#11 9 years ago

Did you have to remove the backbox or wiring to move the game?

#12 9 years ago

just lowered the back box for transport & no He doesn't

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

just lowered the back box for transport & no He doesn't

Which one is out..
-GI or
- Inserts

These are different and you've seemed to have lumped them together, so which is it?

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

just the insert lamps that are out

#15 9 years ago

He must have edited his original post. Thanks

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Do you see all 5 LED's lit up on the driver board?

all of the LEDs on the driver board are lit when game is on , LED 50 looks a little bit dimmer than the others .. don't know if that is normal ....... will be checking connections around transformer & etc... later this eve. after work

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Does your brother have any other WPC games? If so, I would swap that Rottendog driver to see if it is causing the issue.

Yes I have , but....... not really comfortable taking one out of practically CQ games to diagnose .... would hate to Create an issue with one of those in the process .. been checking everything can think of or that I get advice on

#18 9 years ago

wondering now though if that new rottendog driver board could be the issue?? Probably Not .... I know they make Great stuff but.... anyone else had an issue like this with a replacement board so soon ? just put it in a few months ago

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

wondering now though if that new rottendog driver board could be the issue?? Probably Not .... I know they make Great stuff but.... anyone else had an issue like this with a replacement board so soon ? just put it in a few months ago

And there has not been an issue with the game for a few months until the game was moved?

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

all of the LEDs on the driver board are lit when game is on , LED 50 looks a little bit dimmer than the others .. don't know if that is normal ....... will be checking connections around transformer & etc... later this eve. after work

Do you have a meter to test out the voltages? I was hoping an LED was completely out, thus having a completely missing voltage. It is possbile for the 20 volts to be low and still light the LED. Thus is a need of measuring the voltages.

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Yes I have , but....... not really comfortable taking one out of practically CQ games to diagnose .... would hate to Create an issue with one of those in the process .. been checking everything can think of or that I get advice on

What game? I don't see anything in your collection list that would have the same driver board.

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

And there has not been an issue with the game for a few months until the game was moved?

Yes that is the case

Quoted from PinballManiac40:Do you have a meter to test out the volta
ges? I was hoping an LED was completely out, thus having a completely missing voltage. It is possbile for the 20 volts to be low and still light the LED. Thus is a need of measuring the voltages.

Yes I have a Fluke meter ....... how should I test it ?

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

What game? I don't see anything in your collection list that would have the same driver board.

then I am mistaken , my bad I just assumed CV or TOTAN would be the same

#24 9 years ago

Sorry, I don't have a Rottendog MPU.
I would say, wedge the black lead between the ground braid wire to firmly hold it so you can concentrate on measuring VDC on the driver board. Look for any test points on the board for the voltages and measure them. Very interested in seeing if the 20 volts is ok.

#25 9 years ago

still trying to figure out & fix this issue , here is what I have found so far , with advice from helpful pinsiders & some pinwiki literature I did a voltage test on pin connectors J120 & J121 all wires on J121 have the proper 7 VAC & on J121 all have the proper 7 VAC EXCEPT for the green wire it has nada ????

#26 9 years ago

according to the results of the AC voltage test I performed via a pinwiki guide the problem is on the board but I am suspicious of that ?? since the driver board is new

#27 9 years ago

Double check ribbon cable from mpu to driver, this is where insert light signal comes from.
you can even wiggle it a little while game is on, they will probably flicker back to life.
Make sure it's on correctly, that one can be put installed off by a pin or two

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from z28dan:

Double check ribbon cable from mpu to driver, this is where insert light signal comes from.
you can even wiggle it a little while game is on, they will probably flicker back to life.
Make sure it's on correctly, that one can be put installed off by a pin or two

Thanks! for the advice/info I will check that as soon as I get home from work today

#29 9 years ago

No luck with the ribbon cable from MPU to driver board reseating it & wiggling it doesn't have any effect on insert lights at all

#30 9 years ago

You are on the wrong side of the board. J120 & J121 are for GI lighting (this is the background lights that stay on).

Insert lightning you need to check the connectors at J133, J134, J135 and to the right of those.

#31 9 years ago

Actually, can you snap a picture of the boards so we can see all the wiring plugged in to the connectors?

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

according to the results of the AC voltage test I performed via a pinwiki guide the problem is on the board but I am suspicious of that ?? since the driver board is new

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Sorry, I don't have a Rottendog MPU.
I would say, wedge the black lead between the ground braid wire to firmly hold it so you can concentrate on measuring VDC on the driver board. Look for any test points on the board for the voltages and measure them. Very interested in seeing if the 20 volts is ok.

I still don't see if you measured 20 volts on the board. There will be a test point labeled 20v.

#33 9 years ago

Thanks "pinball maniac40" !! I will put a pic. up in a few min. & yes I see those test points but I haven't been able to get a reading from any of them ..... maybe I did it wrong , will check again

#34 9 years ago

gonna try using the ground on the test points instead of a flat ground cable & see what readings I can get

20150109_181753[1].jpg20150109_181753[1].jpg 20150109_181802[1].jpg20150109_181802[1].jpg
#35 9 years ago

just checked again & I cant get a reading from any of the test points on driver board with my meter

#36 9 years ago

ok so I had meter set wrong it was on VAC instead of VDC now I am getting readings from the test points & all readings are good some actually a little bit higher than stated rating but the 20V is good its reading is 22.32 v

#37 9 years ago

readings from test points with meter set to VDC 12vp = 15.45 5vp = 5.144 50v = 75.8
12vd = 12.07 18v = 18.55 & the 20v = 22.32

#38 9 years ago

Thank you for verifying the 20 volts.

Can you swap the wires that are going into J133 and J135?
This should not matter, since J133/J134/135 should be bussed together pin 1 to pin 1...etc...

#39 9 years ago

No Thank you for the Help!! & I will try that next funny you say that as I now remember those connectors were reversed when we did the board swap but we put it back according to the manual for the game

#40 9 years ago

just tried swapping those connectors but it didn't change anything

#41 9 years ago

It should not had made a difference. Only if there a connector problem would it had helped.
Hmmm....I am out of ideas.

Remind me, when was the new Rottendog put in? You had it in the game a few months before it was moved?

#42 9 years ago

Check the relay board under the playfield

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from melappels:

Check the relay board under the playfield

There is a relay for GI lamps. Pretty sure there is not one for insert lamps, which is the issue he is having.

#44 9 years ago

One more idea, press the asic in it's socket, it always makes a funny sound and sometimes everything works again. CPU U9-60+63

#45 9 years ago

new driver board was installed about 3 months ago // original has been sent out for repair (hope full) as of Tuesday just to have an extra & for diagnosis purposes it had a burnt transistor for a flasher circuit which had a crumpled up bulb socket which was also replaced & board was working in the game before removal but was having reset issues

#46 9 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

One more idea, press the asic in it's socket, it always makes a funny sound and sometimes everything works again. CPU U9-60+63

Hope this will work.

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Hope this will work.

This, or replace all bulbs

there are some other possibilities but it seems that power is present and connectors are in position and re-seated. Not checked are the logic components or traces but the Asic is 1st to check.

#48 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You are on the wrong side of the board. J120 & J121 are for GI lighting (this is the background lights that stay on).
Insert lightning you need to check the connectors at J133, J134, J135 and to the right of those.

He was not on wrong side of board!
The insert light LOGIC signal comes through that ribbon cable.
Yes insert light connection is j133 134 and 135, but the signal to turn them on comes through the ribbon.
I've seen games with previous alkaline damage that the corrosion got to the ribbon cable, it's male pins and under the Asic chip and holder. he's on the right track now.
Good luck with your repair.
I've been using rottendog boards for years with much success. I doubt that is your problem.

#49 9 years ago
Quoted from z28dan:

He was not on wrong side of board!
The insert light LOGIC signal comes through that ribbon cable.
Yes insert light connection is j133 134 and 135, but the signal to turn them on comes through the ribbon.
I've seen games with previous alkaline damage that the corrosion got to the ribbon cable, it's male pins and under the Asic chip and holder. he's on the right track now.
Good luck with your repair.
I've been using rottendog boards for years with much success. I doubt that is your problem.

I was not disagreeing with the ribbon cable. That was my first action I asked him to take.
My comment, if you read his posting before mine, was about him measuring 7VAC, which is for GI lightning. So he was measuring voltage for the wrong circuit.

So it seems his machine was working fine before folding the backbox down and moving it to his brother's house. I was hoping for a connection problem.

#50 9 years ago

TecumsehPlissken, can you take a picture of the MPU board.
If you can't get to it right away, do you recall any battery acid damage to the board?

Also don't forget to press on U9 of the MPU board (power off) to see if that gets the insert lamps working.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
 
From: $ 209.00
$ 110.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
 
$ 59.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Hookedonpinball.com
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 34.95
5,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Minneapolis, MN
$ 110.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
 
4,995 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Hackensack, NJ
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 27.50
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 40.00
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
4,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Marietta, GA
There are 101 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lost-all-gi-insert-lights-on-black-rose and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.