(Topic ID: 293187)

Loose Wire Near Bonus Unit

By Tony3Quarters

8 months ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by baldtwit
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#1 8 months ago

Hi Guys,

I think I'm in trouble here.
I was cleaning the Bonus Unit and out popped this wire you see hanging here.

I don't know if it was not connected to something, or if it got loose when I pulled the Bonus Unit down to clean it.

I think the wire is white with silver band with a tiny connector at the end. There doesn't seem to be any solder on the connector, but it does have a hole.
I am not sure about the colors, because I am legally blind and even though I can see a little, I have been told that I am a little color blind. A result of severe chemotherapy a few years back. Plus, I have to work on this machine with one hand holding a magnifying glass, which also hampers color vision due to the possible distortion of the magnifying glass.

I don't see any wire anywhere near the Bonus Unit on the schematic with those colors, so i'm stuck there too.

I put the playfield back down and fired up the Fire Queen and hit the white targets to make the bonus lights add. I stopped at 10,000 and then drained the ball.
but the ball did not start the reset sequence. The ball draining worked fine before I started cleaning the Bonus feature, so now I don't know if there is something wrong with it, or the loose wire caused the drain sequence not to work.

BTW, the reason I was cleaning the Bonus Unit was because it would add ok when the white drops were hit, but when the ball was drained, the bonus lights would count down, but it would not add the bonus points on the score reels. Everything else would work fine.

Sorry this message is so long.

Thank you for your help.

Tony

20210510_111708 (resized).jpg
#2 8 months ago

In the image appears to me that conductor came from a different loom than what is attached to the (bonus) disk

I'm not sure if gotllieb has a color code chart

If I was there I'd probably look what loom it comes from ( the last ty-wrap ) and see where the other conductors are attached.

if you have the schematic it might have a color chart for the conductors and can determine from there.

That tang also looks like it may have come off a coil.

#3 8 months ago

It looks like white+slate. You could gently stretch the wire in all directions to see how far and what it reaches. You may find where the lug broke off of. You could also - with a schematic, your magnifying glass, and patience - find the nearby features (stepper, switch stack coils, etc.) and find any schematic wire on those features that has slate and white listed.

#4 8 months ago

if no luck I'm going to the pacific pinball museum warehouse tomorrow and I'll pull out a fire queen and take some pictures of where the wire goes.

#5 8 months ago

So now the ball goes in the outhole and just sits there, no motor run, nothing?

#6 8 months ago

Hi Guys,

Thank you for your replies.
I guess I should continue on to the bigger problem, the one that caused me to work on the bonus feature.

What happens is that the bonus lights (and the bonus stepper) counts up with no problem. Then when the ball drains and all the reset happens, the lights and the bonus stepper counts down with no problem, but it does not ADD the 1000 points per light as it turns off the bonus lights.

I thought it was the bonus stepper, so I took it apart and cleaned the dirty rivets, the spring loaded contacts, and everything else, but although it is working cleaner now, it did not fix the problem with the score adding the 1000 points per lit bonus lights.

Kinda disappointing when you rack up 10,000 bonus points and it doesn't get added to you score when the ball drains !

As far as the loose wire goes, Balltwit is going to take some pictures of the area on another Fire Queen and maybe we can figure out where the wire goes.

#7 8 months ago
Quoted from Tony3Quarters:

when the ball drains and all the reset happens, the lights and the bonus stepper counts down with no problem, but it does not ADD the 1000 points per light as it turns off the bonus lights.

Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

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#8 8 months ago

me and another guy disagree on how big the ring is on the end of the wire ... so, is it the wire to the 4000 bonus lamp and the ring ripped off the tip of the socket?

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

me and another guy disagree on how big the ring is on the end of the wire ... so, is it the wire to the 4000 bonus lamp and the ring ripped off the tip of the socket?

I was thinking that as well. It looks like the same wire color on a light bulb down to the right.

#10 8 months ago

here's a couple pics. The most likely wire is the 4000 lamp wire, tho the color is actually white-green which is much more obvious in the second pic.

one end is on the lamp socket, the other end is on the edge of the bonus unit contact plate pretty much where you can't easily see it.

I was betting it was the contact plate end, and the other guy is betting the lamp end.

there's white-blue and white-brown wires on the bonus unit going to lamps also.

fire queen arrow (resized).jpgfire queen bonus unit (resized).jpg
#11 8 months ago

1) I used alligator clips as Howard suggested and everything worked. I went from Red wire on right side of diagram to L relay and started working back through zero bonus switch, K relay all the way back to red and all worked. Even the K relay activated when I put 30 volts to it.

2) The loose wire does not reach the #4 bulb. I put in all new lights in the bonus string, and every light worked except #1, so it turns out the wire is actually white-blue. All the wires in the game are severely discolored, so using color as an indicator does not work.

3) Starting the game, it starts in the two player mode. Can't get it to work for just one player. The player feature works fine, showing which ball is in play and which player is up.

4) The ball kicker works now when you start a new game or when the player drains and next player is up. Not really sure how I fixed that.

5) Someone suggested to go through all the features of the game and see if they are all working. I started the list and maybe there are more things not working or the lamps are just out. Been working on first problem so much haven't been able to look for more problems.

Well, I've been working on this for weeks now, and no real progress, so I think I'm just going to take a rest from it for awhile. I don't know enough about repairing EM's to really fix anything without breaking something else. Too bad you techs don't live in the Seattle area and would like a challenge. !

Anyway, thank you very much for all your help. It's been great working with you guys...

Tony

#12 8 months ago
Quoted from Tony3Quarters:

1)
2) The loose wire does not reach the #4 bulb. I put in all new lights in the bonus string, and every light worked except #1, so it turns out the wire is actually white-blue. All the wires in the game are severely discolored, so using color as an indicator does not work.

If you look at baldtwit 's image again, there are 2 green arrows, One end of the wire he suspects the 4k bonus lamp and the other end of the same wire is on the stepper disk.

it may be the 1k bonus lamp but same thing

Now if the game is working, play the heck out of it and enjoy it have a note pad handy for "this feature doesn't seem right" kinda thing and tinker just a little bit at a time.

As far as it only starts a 2 player game (depressing the credit button only once) ... see if the "coin unit" stepper resets. (I'll usually coin-up as many players as the machine will allow & play 'em all out anyways --- 4 player game = 20 balls )

#13 8 months ago

Since this is a 2 player, does it even have a coin unit? Or does it handle 1 vs 2 with a relay?

#14 8 months ago

Right frenchmarky, there is no coin unit in this game.

chas10e: the wt-blue wire goes on the bonus unit where it came off the rivet. I would have to take down the bonus unit again to solder the wire in the right place. Right now I'm just putting that on the back burner.

#15 8 months ago

the CX relay when tripped puts you in two player mode.

looks like the CX relay has a trip coil and a reset coil. The reset coil is wired in parallel with the AX relay coil and that works, so either the reset coil is bad, the thing resets but trips again due to a motor 1D switch stuck closed, or there's a mechanical/sticky issue with the mechanism.

easiest thing is try and reset the CX relay manually with power off and see if it resets/trips properly, then deal with electrical issues if that's ok.

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