Looking for some help on Williams Stellar Wars

(Topic ID: 207130)

Looking for some help on Williams Stellar Wars


By HD_Fatboy

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 142 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 77 days ago by trk12fire
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 142 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 6 months ago

Before you do anything, go to diagnostic mode coil test. (pg 18 in the manual) There is a list of all the solenoids in the manual sequentially by number. Write down which coils work correctly and which do not.

#102 6 months ago

They all work correctly in test mode

#103 6 months ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

They all work correctly in test mode

OK, so what this tells us is the MPU can communicate as to which solenoid it is supposed to fire at a rudimentary level, and the wiring is good.

Next, go to the switch test 03. When you enter the switch test, any stuck switches will be displayed. If the display is blank, there are no stuck switches. Activate each switch using a ball compared to the sequential switch numbering chart in the manual page 19. Make sure each and every switch matches up.

#104 6 months ago

I will do this later and post my results

#105 6 months ago

Here is the results from the switch test I am listing the ones that are not correct

14, bottom left jet bumper
14,6,22,30,38,46,& 54

24, upper top left standup
6,24,22,30,38,46, & 54

38, right bulls eye target
38,,6,22,24,30,38,46, & 54

46, top right jet bumper
46,6,14,22,24,30,38,36,54

54, 4 bank series
54,6,14,22,30,38,46,53

After the 4 bank drop targets drop the machine is humming like something is stuck on

Natuarly if I reach in through the coin door and lift up on the drop target to reset the right two, the humming stops.

#106 6 months ago

Number 6. Coin door doing the same thing. No switches stuck when tests start. Can any one please help. Thanks.

#107 6 months ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

Here is the results from the switch test I am listing the ones that are not correct
14, bottom left jet bumper
14,6,22,30,38,46,& 54
24, upper top left standup
6,24,22,30,38,46, & 54
38, right bulls eye target
38,,6,22,24,30,38,46, & 54
46, top right jet bumper
46,6,14,22,24,30,38,36,54
54, 4 bank series
54,6,14,22,30,38,46,53.

These results are indicating you have an entire switch row #6 activating when any switch in that row is activated, except for the oddball switch #24, that is the only switch not in row #6 that activates and shows up as activating row 6. Its not a part of row 6. Check and make sure #24 upper top left standup only has a white/gray and green/orange wire attached to it. You might also go through each switch in row 6 and make sure the proper wire colors are attached to those switches by referring to the switch matrix chart.

#108 6 months ago

I will check it out. Thanks!

#109 6 months ago

Wire colors match the switch matrix chart, what do I look for next?

#110 6 months ago

I know you replaced the driver board, but I'd really want to do a sanity check and confirm if this is playfield or board problem. Manually jumping from the row to column connectors with a test lead. This is just not one of the more common switch matrix problems. There's a thread with a similar problem here that may be worth taking a look at.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/entire-row-of-switches-activates-together-system-6

#111 6 months ago

Thanks wayout440, I will do the tests tonight after work, and post my results.

#112 6 months ago

Ok, before I start these jumper tests I just take my jumper wire and touch a pin on the row section and a pin on the column pin right on the board. Is this correct. I don’t want to mess up anything so I am looking for clarification

#113 6 months ago

Ok I did the jumper test it only gave me one switch number for each pin and they were correct. So back to switch tests. No mater which switch in row 6 I activate, it shows all row 6 switches cycling through the display. I don’t know what to do next.

#114 6 months ago

Anyone?

#115 6 months ago

OK that's good. At least you know the board is ok, now you just have to figure out what is the problem under the playfield. It's not a typical switch matrix symptom, and nobody else has chimed in that they have seen it or offered suggestions - so here goes...

Start with the common switch matrix problem causes anyway to rule them out. You've verified the wiring, good. Inspect each of the offending switch diodes, better if you can lift and desolder each diode at one end to measure with diode test on a meter and then resolder. This will check for cracked or leaky diodes and poor solder joints in the process. I'd also check for shorted or partially shorted switches with a meter while giving that switch attention. Look for things contacting nearby and make sure wires are not getting pinched anywhere.

Another thing you can try is to disconnect the column wire(s) one at a time and when you disconnect the column wires retest the flakey row switches. In theory, only the switch you disconnect should be disabled in that row, if all the shorted switches still show up then you move to the next switch. Hopefully, one of the row switches disconnected will allow the others to work normally - then you will have narrowed it down.

I once had a Bally Elektra and had a problem with switch errors that drove me nuts when I first started working on pins. It drove me nuts, and I found that it would fail the switch test only when the playfield was sitting down in the game. Every time I lifted the playfield up and tested it, the problem was gone. At first this made it difficult, and eventually I found a switch wire shorting the the side rail.

The point is - hang in there.

#117 6 months ago

First off, thanks for your continued help with this pin.

Quoted from wayout440:

Start with the common switch matrix problem causes anyway to rule them out.

Not sure what you mean by common switch matrix problem

Quoted from wayout440:

Inspect each of the offending switch diodes, better if you can lift and desolder each diode at one end to measure with diode test on a meter and then resolder. This will check for cracked or leaky diodes and poor solder joints in the process. I'd also check for shorted or partially shorted switches with a meter while giving that switch attention.

What is the procedure for checking shorted or partially shorted switches with a meter?

Quoted from wayout440:

Another thing you can try is to disconnect the column wire(s) one at a time and when you disconnect the column wires retest the flakey row switches. In theory, only the switch you disconnect should be disabled in that row, if all the shorted switches still show up then you move to the next switch. Hopefully, one of the row switches disconnected will allow the others to work normally

I can do this.

#118 6 months ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

First off, thanks for your continued help with this pin.

Not sure what you mean by common switch matrix problem

Shorted/open/cracked diode, switch closure shorted, broken wires etc... Always start assuming simple first, even if the symptom isn't "obvious". Some of the more common sysmptoms & causes:

Switch column shorted to ground
When a column wire is shorted to ground, and any switch in that column is closed, the switch test will show ALL switches in the ROW of the closed switch as being closed. If no switches are closed, the switch test will show no switches closed. To find the location of the short, go to the end of the switch column wire on the playfield (the switches are "daisy chained" together for an entire column or row). Then break the daisy chain one switch at a time until the short no longer shows in the switch test.

Row shorted to ground (diode anode).
When the anode (non-banded end of the switch diode) is shorted to ground, the switch test will show the entire row as activated (whether any switches are closed or not). To find the location of the short, go to the end of the switch row wire on the playfield (the switches are "daisy chained" together for an entire column or row). Then break the daisy chain one switch at a time until the short no longer shows in the switch test.

Row shorted to ground (diode cathode).
When the cathode (banded end of the switch diode) is shorted to ground, that switch's entire row will show as closed in the switch test (whether the switch is open or closed). To find the location of the short, go to the end of the switch row wire on the playfield (the switches are "daisy chained" together for an entire column or row). Then break the daisy chain one switch at a time until the short no longer shows in the switch test.

Column wires shorted together.
When two column wires are shorted together, and none of the switches in those columns are closed, the switch test will show no problems. But pressing any switch in either column will show that switch, along with a switch in the column that is shorted on the row of the switch you are closing. For example, if column 2 and column 4 are shorted together, closing switch column 2 row 3 will also show a closed switch in column 4 row 3.

Row wires shorted together.
When two row wires are shorted together, and no switches are closed, the switch test will show no closed switches. When any switch on either row is closed, another switch on the same column as the closed switch will also show as closed. For example, if rows 1 and 4 are shorted, closing a switch in row 1 column 3 will also show a closed switch on row 4 column 3.
Column and row wires shorted together.
When a column and row wire are shorted together, the switch test will show the switch that is at the intersection of the row and column as being closed, even though it is not closed. All other switches on all other rows and columns will work correctly. For example, column 1 and row 3 are shorted together. The intersection of this column and row will show that switch as closed (even if it's not). And remember, this switch is not what is causing the problem!

Open diode on a switch.
An open diode on a switch will cause only that switch not to work.
Shorted diode on a switch.

A shorted switch diode will show no problems when only that switch is opened or closed. However if additional switches in that row or other columns are closed, false switch readings can be shown.

Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

What is the procedure for checking shorted or partially shorted switches with a meter?
I can do this.

Meter set to ohms or continuity, clip one test lead to one contact and the other test lead to the other while paying attention to such things as "is this an n.o. (normally open) or n.c. (normally closed) set of contacts. Some switches may have both. Shorted switch will have very low ohms when a closure is made, on the order of zero to a few or 10s of ohms, when open should be infinite.

#119 6 months ago

Thanks! That is very good information!

#120 6 months ago

Following this Thread to the Bitter End!

#121 6 months ago

"Let's work the problem people. Let's not make things worse by guessing"

apollo13-edharris (resized).jpg

#122 6 months ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Following this Thread to the Bitter End!

I hope it doesn't turn out to be bitter, I need it to be sweet!

#123 6 months ago

Last night I working on machine, and with the playfield up I was leaning on right side metal side rail for the glass and I could feel the tingling of electricity through my forearms. could this be causing my problem? some type of short? I guess I should of tried left side, but didn't think of it until now.

Its a little confusing considering nothing electrical appears to be touching the rail, its mounted to the wood with a ground strap under the head.

#124 6 months ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

Last night I working on machine, and with the playfield up I was leaning on right side metal side rail for the glass and I could feel the tingling of electricity through my forearms. could this be causing my problem? some type of short? I guess I should of tried left side, but didn't think of it until now.
Its a little confusing considering nothing electrical appears to be touching the rail, its mounted to the wood with a ground strap under the head.

If you were touching nothing else, only the rail - then yes, you have some problem. It might be related to your other problems but could be something else. Definitely check to make sure you are using a functional 3 prong plug with continuity all the way from the ground pin to the cab braid, and of course using a correctly wired three prong outlet (sometimes a grounding problem is outside of the machine). There shouldn't be any electricity on your safety ground.

NL072_ground1-fig1-e1264196273862 (resized).png

#125 6 months ago

Ok for anyone still following this thread I made big progress the items in the in row 6 (blue and white wire) are not firing together. Each item is working as should. But now row 4 yellow and white are not working at all. Right coin switch (which don’t matter on free play). A rollover. 3 roll over. Top right stand up. Left 3 bank stand up. Right kicker. 4 bank right center. I put my new boards on the center drop targets which has yellow white on 4 bank right center. I double and triple checked thes solder connections because that’s the only yellow white wires I touched. If there is something wrong here, would that affect the other items in the row? If I connected the two white yellow wires at the 4 bank right center would that make the other items work? Really lost again but this far I don’t want to give up.

#126 6 months ago

Typically, the problem with an entire single row not working at all is a break betreen the MPU and playfield. (Remembering you already verified the switch matrix is filling working on the MPU board by direct jumpers)

I would want to continuity check that the wht/yel wire is getting from MPU to playfield. Open backlox and partially lift playfield. Clip a meter lead to the wht/yel of any switch in tow 4, and use the other probe to check at the MPU connector for continuity.

#127 6 months ago

I will try that

#128 6 months ago

I have continuity

#129 6 months ago

When I go into switch test 4,20,22,28,36,44 and 52 show on the display.

#130 6 months ago

22 is because of captive ball forgot to take it out

#131 6 months ago

I went back to the jumper test row 4 is not working what to do now?

#132 6 months ago
Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

I went back to the jumper test row 4 is not working what to do now?

Well now you have a driver board problem. Perhaps you shorted something working on those switches. Its probably the 4049 for row 4.

Quoted from barakandl:

the 4049 buffers usually fail for a reason. Like a switch lug is touching a solenoid lug. Inspect that wire color under the PF.
A logic probe can confirm whether it is the 4049 or the PIA. Probably is the 4049. They tend to act like a fuse for the PIA when bad shit happens under the PF. THe 7406 do the same.

#133 6 months ago

I have a logic probe but no sure how to use it, can anyone help me with that? I have extra transistors

#134 6 months ago

Ok. I see what you mean on my schematic IC 15. Correct? I hat soldering these things with all these legs. Should I go ahead a nd try to change it?

#135 6 months ago

Driver board is working. Switches in row 4 still do not work. Think I will fill full of contact cleaner and light it up.

#137 6 months ago

Easy there...
You took a bold step buying a non working machine without solid state computer repair experience. Your logical choice is either sell the machine or gain the skills to fix it. No intentionally set fires, please.

If you are going to fix the board yourse!f, get some soldering knowledge, practice on some old boards, and then install a socket for that IC. Be prepared to need to learn how to use a logic probe or meter to further troubleshoot, and be aware that something you did, or some other problem may have damaged that switch row.

Not every weekend warrior can fix every solid state pin...you have to know your limitations. There's a certain amount of plumbing or automotive repairs U am willing to repair myself. For the tougher jobs, I have to outsource them to the right people.

Time to put the contact cleaner down and do a personal evaluation before making a decision. Nobody can fault you for that.

#138 6 months ago

Do you have a place and part number for the socket? I think the driver board is working now but still can’t figure out why the switches still don’t work.

#139 5 months ago

You'd need a standard 16 pin DIP socket. Easy to find at any electronics supplier. If you order any other parts Marco is one I frequent:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/DIP16

Be aware that the 4049 IC requires attention to static handling.

Did you see if you needed to repin the connector on the board for the rows? Perhaps you have cracked solder on the through hole, or a pin crimp not making good contact
http://www.pinrepair.com/connect/

Once you are certain the board is functional, before you plug the switch connectors back on: Inspect each switch in that row to make sure the row wire passes from switch to switch, the correct color column wires are on the other terminal, the diode is functional and oriented in the correct direction, the switch body or wiring is not shorting against anything, and the switch opens and closes as it should.

#140 5 months ago

I also think there are a few guys in PA that might be able to stop by and help.

#141 5 months ago

Great News !!!!!!

Stellar Wars 100% working correctly finally!

I bought a 40 pin straight IC socket on Flea Bay for a couple bucks, snapped it into two 8 pin rows. Soldered them to board, inserted a 4049 chip I had, and Bam, it worked!

3 months later
#142 77 days ago

That’s great news!
A lot of respect to Wayout

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