(Topic ID: 275409)

Looking for some advice from those with experience on EM

By dsupica

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by gdonovan
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    #1 3 years ago

    Me: I am new to owning pinball machines. I have two now, both 1980s era solid state. But i grew up in the 1970s playing EM machines.

    My Goal (dream): To take an EM machine and restore it. Maybe not to brand new, but something that looks reaonsble.

    My Situation: To be honest, I am really new to all of this. But i am an eager learner and want to give this a shot. I may fail, but it is kind of a dream of mine.

    My Question to experts in this area: If i were to buy an older EM machine from the 1970s - are there anything that i would really want to avoid? Are there parts generally available for some machines but not others? Is there a supplier that may be easier to work on for a newbie like me? (I read gotlieb are easier in this era). If a machine has a damaged playfield....is that the kiss of death? etc etc

    Sometimes an item is so far gone that it is not worth attempting to rehab. I am trying to understand what those items may be so i can avoid a money pit.

    Just looking for good suggestions from those of you that have done this before and could share some wisdom with me on your recommendations.

    Any suggestions greatly appreciated!

    #2 3 years ago

    I'd suggest a single player simple game, low scoring ( not a lot of score reels ) to get your feet wet.

    Best wishes.

    LTG : )

    #3 3 years ago

    Also, read Pinwiki EM machines. Gottlieb and Williams are good brands to start with, lots of available parts

    #4 3 years ago

    The best part about EMs is that they often need very little in terms of parts. Maybe a spring or something. The Pinball Resource is a great vendor for older parts. EMs can often be a little rough condition wise but if it plays good it is worth it in my opinion. You can see the condition before you buy so you should be comfortable with the purchase.

    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

    This is a great resource!

    #5 3 years ago

    To make them really work right you will need some parts. Bumpers and flippers almost assuredly. You'll need to re-rubber it because the rubbers will likely be dead. The score reels and steppers will probably be gunked uo.

    It just depends on the condition. If you get a real basket case you can get it working but it will still look like a basket case. If you get one that has been maintained ok that's different. You'll pay for that though.

    Whatever do not buy a multiplayer and especially a Grand Prix. They made a ton of them so there are a lot around but they are complex to work on. A good single player is the starting point and Gottlieb is probably the best because parts for them are more readily available

    #6 3 years ago

    I agree stay away from 4 player units till you get the basics of a single player unit. Most of the time you can fix a machine with cleaning and adjustments. If you can get the schematic with the machine your ahead of the game. 90 percent of games you end up rebuilding the flippers. all games you end up buying all new rubber. NO contact cleaner use alcohol, No grease on anything but what manufacturer specified. If you get a machine where some idiot has used grease all over the place you will end up cleaning everything to get it to work. Get a spring kit off ebay they are cheap and when in a pinch for a spring they are essential to have around. Get a real contact bending tool cheap but essential especially when adjusting AX and BX type relays

    #7 3 years ago

    Thanks for all the great posts.

    Makes sense for single player game.

    #8 3 years ago

    Another vote for single player Gottlieb. The Pinball Resource for parts. Stay away from Chicago Coin. Enjoy!

    #9 3 years ago

    I recommend finding an EM you like that is a nice “players grade” game. I haven’t bought a game yet that didn’t have one or two things wrong with it electrically when I brought it home. That’s a great jumping off point to build your confidence and get familiar with working on them.

    The main point is buy a game that’s already (mostly) working and go from there.

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

    Another vote for single player Gottlieb. The Pinball Resource for parts. Stay away from Chicago Coin. Enjoy!

    Chicago Coin and Stern had some intermixings around the time things changed over to Solid State (and name change) so keep Stern in mind for the same thing. They aren't BAD games per se but their titles were pretty basic for rules and felt a little rushed.

    Take the Rawhide I have for example. It has a little bit of everything going on, spinner, pops, targets, 2 scoops, captive ball....but it feels a little clunky. Okay, really clunky. Oh, but a lot of plastic in place of metal and a lot of edge connectors to worry about. Did I mention their chime unit is literally a doorbell? If you have a dog it's going to drive him/her bonkers.

    If you get anything 70's Gottlieb you should be in good shape. Bally is good too. When you get into Williams things get a little more hit and miss. They did good with Space Mission/Station and Grand Prix. I am also liking their Superstar I picked up. But you'll want to pay a little less for these other WMS titles.

    #11 3 years ago

    EMs can be a mixed bag. There are many good ones that aren't "highly rated" simply because people don't know about them. Find a good one and go to town on it. They can often be found in project condition for cheap.

    #12 3 years ago

    Any single player William's or Gottlieb will fit your bill. And dont be blinkered into buying one of the fashionable/ collectable must haves. Plenty of 'lesser'machines equally good to play. Read up on em machine maintenance beforehand and then go for it!

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    To make them really work right you will need some parts. Bumpers and flippers almost assuredly. You'll need to re-rubber it because the rubbers will likely be dead. The score reels and steppers will probably be gunked uo.
    It just depends on the condition. If you get a real basket case you can get it working but it will still look like a basket case. If you get one that has been maintained ok that's different. You'll pay for that though.
    Whatever do not buy a multiplayer and especially a Grand Prix. They made a ton of them so there are a lot around but they are complex to work on. A good single player is the starting point and Gottlieb is probably the best because parts for them are more readily available

    He meant NOT a Grand Prix!

    Agree - Gottlieb, 70s, single player.

    I would add, for your first time, don’t try to resurect a trashed EM - rather buy a working one and tinker/fix until you understand how they work. Enjoy!

    #14 3 years ago

    I would add to that, avoid games that have obviously been damp for an extended period. And proceed cautiously taking a shed load of photos. Focus first on pinpointing and fixing all mechanical and electrical errors before tackling cosmetic issues.

    2 weeks later
    #15 3 years ago

    These guys all know their stuff.....

    best advice I can add for a new em trainee technician/owner....

    *waves two fingers in arc pattern*
    "this is not the faulty relay you are looking for"

    Might be just my bad luck for the last 15 yrs but....
    Its never the easy fix, easy access "quick adjustment with a leaf tool" relay contact..... its the last one on the chain of switches on your faulty circuit.... the one that doesn't even look like its part of the faulty circuit in the schematics..... the one that's the biggest pain to get to... behind the most ceased screws to slip your flathead off of and gouge a finger....the one that has no contact surface left and needs replacing.....
    and that's after you've fixed all the other 120 leaf switches and mastered reading complex schematics.....

    properly caring for an em is going to be work.
    Seen too many good projects abandoned or worse, destroyed because the owner wasn't ready for or aware of whats in store.
    but its HIGHLY rewarding to play a smooth one, especially when you made it so.

    just be ready for some grubby knuckles and popped brain cells is all.

    #16 3 years ago
    Quoted from Hul1gn:

    just be ready for some grubby knuckles and popped brain cells is all

    I think the weirdest problem I ever had was on my first machine. 500 point rollover switch would cause the score motor to go in perpetual motion. Eventually got around to checking the voltage on the 500 pt relay and there was nothing there yet the relay was still engaged causing the score motor to spin. being that it was 40 years old the armature had become magnetized which was causing the problem. took the relay apart and took the armature to the buffer hoping that the static electricity would demagnetize it. It worked ....problem solved. Hul1gn is right after you fix it , it will be highly rewarding, for a second you will feel like Wily E Coyote "Super Genius"

    #17 3 years ago

    As others have said, a single player machine will certainly be easiest to start with. I'd definitely lift the playfield if you're thinking of buying one, and look at the condition of the metal parts. I believe some people have stored their machines under water somehow. If everything is really, really rusty - I'd move on. You don't want to have to disassemble/polish every part of a stepper or score motor on your first machine. Maybe for your second machine...

    I'd also look for obvious signs that someone has been in there and done some damage. If no one has gotten clumsy fingers in there, there's a good chance that just cleaning/gapping switches, repairing the odd solder joint here and there will fix it. But I've seen people who must have had fingers like sausages, who have bent entire banks of switches waaaay out of whack or just cut whole bundles of wires...so be on the lookout for that kind of thing. Well-intentioned people trying to fix a machine can screw it up like you wouldn't believe! Most of my worst problems have been trying to fix someone else's bad repair.

    Playfields are tricky if they have alot of paint missing. It's great practice to get some small brushes and try your hand at matching color, but then you have to protect the new paint you put on with some type of clear, and that can get tricky. I'd probably try to find one with a pretty good playfield so you don't have to get into all that on your first rodeo.

    You will probably still have to pop out, flatten (or replace) and reglue some plastic inserts - that's a good basic skill to get down, and doesn't require a huge amount of expertise, so don't be afraid of that.

    Backglasses are hard to repair and it's pretty common to have some paint flake off from heat and age, so I'd look for a machine that has a decent backglass too, unless someone's still making them and you don't mind paying another $250 or so for a new one. I haven't seen many backglass touch-ups that looked good - it takes some skill.

    And finally, if you run into problems, there are lots of very helpful folks here who enjoy problem-solving, so don't be afraid to write. Just be polite...and buy everyone a pizza when the problem is solved. (Just kidding about the pizza..)

    #18 3 years ago

    I don't like bending over and trying to see. Have also found half-assed measures don't work. So I ;
    Remove all boards, clean/adjust all switches, re-solder loose wires. Then full Shop Job on the rest.
    This is not recommended if you are not committed to seeing it through. If you are, it's not that crazy.
    My first EM (Klondike) I purchased for 200 bucks, started asking questions on Pinside, did the full switch monty, well, it still works perfectly 5 years later.
    Buy good parts.
    If you want a Player do it right the first time.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    My first EM (Klondike) I purchased for 200 bucks, started asking questions on Pinside, did the full switch monty, well, it still works perfectly 5 years later.

    My second game was a Klondike. I discovered pinrepair.com around that time. Although in Clay's writings it wasn't recommended for a newbie, I also went through mine from top to bottom. Got it playing like butter and it really got me addicted. Still have a fond nostalgia for that game.

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from the9gman:

    I think the weirdest problem I ever had was on my first machine. 500 point rollover switch would cause the score motor to go in perpetual motion. Eventually got around to checking the voltage on the 500 pt relay and there was nothing there yet the relay was still engaged causing the score motor to spin. being that it was 40 years old the armature had become magnetized which was causing the problem. took the relay apart and took the armature to the buffer hoping that the static electricity would demagnetize it. It worked ....problem solved. Hul1gn is right after you fix it , it will be highly rewarding, for a second you will feel like Wily E Coyote "Super Genius"

    I would say it was most likely demagnetized by the oscillating emf fields generated by the buffers induction motor itself... tricky problem that magnetized/sticking relay. Iv'e had plenty of score motors perpetually spin due to a stuffed or bent zero switch but not a relay... unusual one, well done finding that!

    #21 3 years ago

    Lots of good tips. When looking at an EM to purchase take a close look inside
    the head and in the cabinet. The main thing to watch out for are signs of water
    or moisture. It'll often show up as rusted parts and swollen wood that will
    show up as gaps in corners. Look for obvious things like missing/broken parts and
    cut wires hanging loose. Small things like missing pop bumper caps of PF
    plastics can be hard to find. Most other parts are common to many other machines and easy
    to find.

    Cosmetics are important in the long term when you decide to sell. Flaking ink
    on the back glass and worn spots on the playfield. Look long and hard at these.

    Quite often an older machine will be filthy due to poor storage but will clean
    up nicely. I've had that experience a number of times.

    The best general advice I can offer is only buy a machine you can inspect
    in person.

    Hope you find a great project machine. Beware that this is a VERY addictive
    (but fun) hobby.
    Steve

    #22 3 years ago

    One more thing.... If you find a machine advertised for sale you can get
    pics and info at www.ipdb.org

    Steve

    #23 3 years ago

    My advice is to buy a William's for first single player EM. Gottlieb has some excellent titles but they are far more finicky than William's titles when it comes to setting up and staying in tune. The short relay arms used on Gottlieb are very touchy about adjustment, William's are far more forgiving.

    Bally is very good as well.

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