(Topic ID: 236754)

Looking for sage advise


By ProjectSmoke

56 days ago



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  • 35 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 45 days ago by pinnyheadhead
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 56 days ago

Looking to buy my first pin or two and I'm having trouble deciding what to get. I have room for two at the moment if I want but I can't decide if I should go big and get a NIB Hobbit or JJP Pirates or if should get get two cheaper games instead ie Star trek pro, f-14, getaway, black rose ect.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

#2 56 days ago

If you're really in love with Hobbit or Pirates go with that but if you just want a pin get two or more lesser priced games because you will just end up buying more anyway.

#3 56 days ago

Save up a little more and get a NIB / or lightly newer title, and one older/ lesser priced. That will prevent boredom and scratch the NIB itch.

#4 56 days ago

Buy two instead of one. If you have somebody to play with, it's much more fun to each play a game. If you want to play a variety of games, you'll be able to. People always talk about how 'deeper is better,' but it's just simply not true. Don't think you'll need to have the depth of JJP games to enjoy them at home -- it's a fallacy.

#5 56 days ago

My opinion, is to get two. Star Trek and Getaway, and if you have the cash left over get color dmd for both. While the ST should not give you too much trouble, Getaway will possibly break down from time to time. Getaway is a great pin to learn pinball ins and outs on. Those system 11's are great pins!!!
Welcome to the addiction known as pinball!!!!!

#6 56 days ago

Agree, get two, one newish and one of the 90s games you like. Then make room for more, and more ...and more, as the fever will catch.

#7 56 days ago

Don’t buy NIB, it is a waste of money since you can buy pristine examples which are already dialed in, and will save you the frustration of having to get them dialed in. NIB does not mean set up perfectly/properly or no issues.

And yes, get 2. Think about if you are a tinkerer too - you will need to learn how to fix your games, and if you enjoy working with your hands, buying an older game is way more fun since there is more to upgrade / fix / enhance

#8 56 days ago

You could get a Star Trek Pro and an F-14 for about $6,000 in good condition. You could keep them for a year, play the heck out of them, decide you don't like pinball anymore (unlikely), and sell them for about $6,000.

You could get a NIB Jersey Jack for about $8,500, play it for a year, and sell it for $7,500.

I am unfamiliar with the internal workings of the other machines, but Star Trek has very few moving parts. Aside from the flippers, and the pops, there is 1 drop target and a Vuk to shake the ship. Not very mechanically complex. An F-14 or Gettaway are mechanically complex, but not necessarily hard to maintain.

If it was me, I'd go for the Star Trek and F-14 or Gettaway.

However, you could have everything on your list for about $1,000 if you don't mind having the capital locked away.

By that I mean that you could buy the POTC NIB, keep it for 6 months, sell it for cash and buy a used Hobbit (and have cash left over). After another year you could sell the Hobbit and buy a Stern Star Trek and have lots of cash leftover to buy a Gettaway. After another year you could sell the Gettaway and get an F-14 and have cash left over.

If you only have a few pins in your basement they can get old, but they are relatively easy to exchange if you have a little bit of patience.

#9 56 days ago

Either way you’re going to end up with 2. It’s just a matter of time. My biggest suggestion to first time buyers is either buy a 89-2000 Bally/Williams if you feel comfortable learning how to troubleshoot and fix a machine or buy a new machine if you just want to play and not worry about it. Yes, you will have to adjust a new machine a little. You’re going to lose money on a new machine as soon as you open the box, though. If I were you, I would buy 2 machines. See what you like and sell or trade one down the road. Any pinball machine is better than no pinball machine and 2 is typically better than one.

#10 56 days ago

I always think it is better to start with an older early SS or System 11. So many great games to choose from, dip your toe in for 1-2K. Look at Flash, Meteor, Mata Hari, Blackout, Flash Gordon, Skateball, High Speed, Pinbot, Cyclone choices are endless. You will learn a lot about pins and how to maintain them before you make a big purchase or you may find you prefer the older games like a lot of us do. Don't limit yourself and have fun.

#11 56 days ago

Buy the games that YOU like to play the most.
Don’t assume you’ll love a game just because it’s highly rated.
Unless space is an issue you’d be smart to buy 2 or 3 used games rather that one expensive NIB.

#12 56 days ago

My advice: Wait. There is lots on the horizon. There is no advantage to buying now vs waiting to see and making a more informed decision.

6-8 months from now you can either buy the latest exciting pin OR if what's released is not your thing, others will be selling their Hobbits, Pirates, and other and you will get the pins at a better price.

#13 54 days ago

This is good advice, folks, thank you. Like the original poster, I am also looking into a new first pin or two. Some of the references to fixing and tinkering are a little intimidating to me. The last time I soldered any electronics was nearly 30 years ago (gulp) with a Radio Shack AM radio kit. How much technical wizardry is needed for basic troubleshooting and upkeep of late 90s and early 2000s games? And are there any specific “popular” pins for new collectors to avoid due to reliability and repair complexity issues?

#14 54 days ago

Get two cheaper ones instead of one expensive. No matter how fun the NIB might be you will still be better off with two different pins for more variation.

#15 54 days ago

Hook up with a local Pinsider with a collection. He provide advise technical expertise. Together you could pick up a nice older game or games that really dont need anything. STTNG is great first game that has years of staying power. And forge a friendship!

#16 54 days ago
Quoted from TomyAtomic:

How much technical wizardry is needed for basic troubleshooting and upkeep of late 90s and early 2000s games? And are there any specific “popular” pins for new collectors to avoid due to reliability and repair complexity issues?

None, if you have a fat wallet and live in an area with good techs who do house calls.

Or, at least a willingness and open mind. There's a lot of help to be had here, especially for people willing to help themselves. Most games have mechanical schematics that help you see what goes where. Mechanical issues tend to be fairly simple - once you stop looking at the giant box of moving parts and focus on just the mech that's giving you trouble. Soldering lugs, no big deal. Electronics issues, might be a bit more to learn on; but there are people you can send boards to who are experts. Even then, a lot of issues like identifying a blown driver transistor, there are guides here on how to use specific tools, and spotting the bad part is as simple as "which one isn't like the others".

Pinside is a great resource, but only if you articulate what you're seeing, what you've tried, your observations when troubleshooting. Pictures (clear, in focus, well lit) help immensely. The more effort you put into it, the more help you'll get.

pinwiki.com is a fantastic resource, *especially* for WPC-era games. A bit less so for Stern (at least for electronics).

vid1900 has guides here on pinside on just about everything. He's a cranky bastard but his advice and tutorials are pretty solid! I know I own him beer for the trouble he's saved me, whether he knows it or not.

You may find locals who are willing to come *help*. Key word: Help. Learn from them. Don't just treat them like an unpaid tech.

Or, see the earlier fat wallet comment.

#17 54 days ago

If you haven't already, go to a show. Games are set on free play and there will be a variety of game eras and companies to play. Bring an acceptable amount of cash that you are willing to part with to the show. Most games are for sale including the floor models from the vendors or they will give you a discount if you buy AT THE SHOW. If you have a family and their input will matter, bring them with you and make a group decision. Like others, I would start with used from a Pinsider with at least 2 good reviews. When you go to buy, ask them to explain the maintenance of the game. It was theirs anyway, who better to know common issues and fixes. You will make a friend and walk away feeling better and more confident. Also, a local distributor is gold. Larry from Flip in Out personally delivered my first NIB pin, set it up for me and went through the whole thing with me. I knew I could call him for issues. On a side note, I am confident Zach Meny will keep up this level of customer service for Flip n Out going forward.

#18 54 days ago

Thanks for the excellent advice. My fiscal sense would steer me away from house calls to fix a machine unless I became absolutely lost, and it’s reassuring to hear that many issues are manageable with open mindedness and online help.

Great point about visiting a show - I plan to visit the White Rose one later this year!

While I think buying used from a fellow Pinsider seems best based on the forum advice, any specific suggestions on solid distributors local to the Baltimore - DC - Southcentral PA area? Some of the favorites listed by Pinsiders seem a bit distant from me.

#19 54 days ago
Quoted from ProjectSmoke:

Looking to buy my first pin or two and I'm having trouble deciding what to get. I have room for two at the moment if I want but I can't decide if I should go big and get a NIB Hobbit or JJP Pirates or if should get get two cheaper games instead ie Star trek pro, f-14, getaway, black rose ect.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

Go with the two cheaper machines. Might be more back for the buck. Then budget for one of those later. As for the sage advise, use fresh ,not dried. I use it on chicken right before it goes in the oven.

#20 54 days ago
Quoted from ProjectSmoke:

Looking to buy my first pin or two and I'm having trouble deciding what to get. I have room for two at the moment if I want but I can't decide if I should go big and get a NIB Hobbit or JJP Pirates or if should get get two cheaper games instead ie Star trek pro, f-14, getaway, black rose ect.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

JJP is great. Get gently used if you go that route...not nib.
Williams system 11 pins are great values if you are getting 2.
Make sure you go to local arcades and play before you buy. You don't want to pay a lot for a game you will be bored with in a week.

#22 54 days ago
Quoted from TomyAtomic:

Thanks for the excellent advice. My fiscal sense would steer me away from house calls to fix a machine unless I became absolutely lost, and it’s reassuring to hear that many issues are manageable with open mindedness and online help.
Great point about visiting a show - I plan to visit the White Rose one later this year!
While I think buying used from a fellow Pinsider seems best based on the forum advice, any specific suggestions on solid distributors local to the Baltimore - DC - Southcentral PA area? Some of the favorites listed by Pinsiders seem a bit distant from me.

Quoted from TomyAtomic:

This is good advice, folks, thank you. Like the original poster, I am also looking into a new first pin or two. Some of the references to fixing and tinkering are a little intimidating to me. The last time I soldered any electronics was nearly 30 years ago (gulp) with a Radio Shack AM radio kit. How much technical wizardry is needed for basic troubleshooting and upkeep of late 90s and early 2000s games? And are there any specific “popular” pins for new collectors to avoid due to reliability and repair complexity issues?

I'm not too far away from you in Crofton Maryland and would give you a few pieces of advice. As far as distributors go, Pinball Star is drivable, and a good source for machines other than Stern. I say other than Stern because the quote I got from "Colorado Game Exchange" was about $300 less for a new machine delivered to my door than what I received from Pinball Star. My boss has picked up several NIB games from Pinball Star and has nothing but good things to say about them.

I too was worried about the technical difficulty of an older machine. In the 6 months I've had machines at my house, I've had a World Cup Soccer 94, Stern Star Trek, Attack From Mars Remake (current and for sale if you want to take a look) and Jurassic Park. 0 issues with the Attack from Mars (less than a year old), only a few minor things on the Star Trek (physically broken things that were obvious to fix), a few problems on the World Cup Soccer (overtightened nuts causing the motors to not spin properly and improperly seated wires causing lights to go out), and a broken board on the Jurassic Park (took about 6 hours to figure out and fix... I hacked the board). I honestly feel like diagnosing issues that comes up on these machines can be a fun puzzle. I wouldn't be too afraid of an older (90s) machine. If you are concerned with being able to maintain an older machine, get a cheaper one, keep it for a few months, fix it up (or don't) and sell it. If you spend 2700 on a World Cup Soccer, bring it home, but 300 into it fixing it up with new lights, rubbers, and a few parts to get it 100%, and then sell it for 2700 a few months later... how much did it really cost? It is a learning experience, and you can learn more about what you do and do not like in a machine.

I seem to be switching from a couple of A list machines to a mixture of B list machines. At the start of the year I had a Stern Star Trek and an Attack From Mars. I am in the process of converting that to a Jurassic Park (complete), lightly used Stern with Video (Guardians, Star Wars, or Iron Maiden), a favored 80s machine (Pinbot or Black Knight 2000), and a Mame Cabinet. That's pretty much an even money trade. You can set a budget and divide it up however you want. As long as you are not going NIB, you should be able to get about what you buy a machine for out of it (- most mods).

The best advice I can give you is to check out the awesome local scene there is in pinball near DC. The 3 places I go to (that are closes to me) are Crabtowne (30 ish mostly 80s-90s machines with a few new Sterns), MOMS organic Market (50 machines mostly newer), and VUK (15 machines mostly very high end). Between these sites there are 4 of the top 5, 8 of the top 10, 14 of the top 20, 26 of the top 50 on the Pinside 100 I can think of right now... all within 45 minutes of Baltimore. Most of these places have pinball leagues as well (I've never done them but they are there). Go play a lot of pinball machines and make a list of your top 5 or 10 and then wait for a really good deal to pop up local. Check Facebook Marketplace, Pinside, and Craigslist.

The other thing I'd highly recommend doing when exploring these locations is play the same vintage machine in different locations. By that, I mean play the World Cup Soccer at Crabtown, then play the World Cup Soccer at MOMs. This will show you EXACTLY how much difference condition can make in the playability and fun factor in a machine. Another great example would be the Adam's at Crabtown and the Adam's at VUK. As a side note do your self a favor and eat at Crabtowne. You can also play the "would I rather" game at Crabtown and decide something along the lines of, "would I rather have this Deadpool NIB for 5600, or this Fish Tales and Word Cup Soccer, or this Pinbot and Black Knight 2000 and Getaway. It's a fun hobby. If you would like an in depth tour of the underside of a Jurassic Park and/or Attack From Mars Remake let me know, I'm local.

Good luck and with very few exceptions (cough cough Shrek), all pinball is fun.

All in all, you are in a great place, for pinball.

#23 54 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

The best advice I can give you is to check out the awesome local scene there is in pinball near DC. The 3 places I go to (that are closes to me) are Crabtowne (30 ish mostly 80s-90s machines with a few new Sterns), MOMS organic Market (50 machines mostly newer), and VUK (15 machines mostly very high end). Between these sites there are 4 of the top 5, 8 of the top 10, 14 of the top 20, 26 of the top 50 on the Pinside 100 I can think of right now... all within 45 minutes of Baltimore. Most of these places have pinball leagues as well (I've never done them but they are there). Go play a lot of pinball machines and make a list of your top 5 or 10 and then wait for a really good deal to pop up local. Check Facebook Marketplace, Pinside, and Craigslist.

The other thing I'd highly recommend doing when exploring these locations is play the same vintage machine in different locations. By that, I mean play the World Cup Soccer at Crabtown, then play the World Cup Soccer at MOMs. This will show you EXACTLY how much difference condition can make in the playability and fun factor in a machine. Another great example would be the Adam's at Crabtown and the Adam's at VUK. As a side note do your self a favor and eat at Crabtowne. You can also play the "would I rather" game at Crabtown and decide something along the lines of, "would I rather have this Deadpool NIB for 5600, or this Fish Tales and Word Cup Soccer, or this Pinbot and Black Knight 2000 and Getaway. It's a fun hobby. If you would like an in depth tour of the underside of a Jurassic Park and/or Attack From Mars Remake let me know, I'm local.

Great advice here, especially if you're in an area that has many locations to play. Wish I could give sataneatscheese a couple thumbs up for the time taken to write all that out.

My 2 quarters worth:

Get 2 games: an older one and a NIB or very gently used late model HUO. That way you will have something to play when troubleshooting the older machine.

Also, if you like many types of play, get two different styles. Maybe one that is an epic adventure with a very deep rule set and long ball times (from what I understand, looking at you The Hobbit ), and one with shorter ball times (it can still have a lot of things to accomplish).

I was in a very similar situation as you from December through February. My wife and I decided to get a pinball machine in November, 2018. We did a lot of research playing games at many of the great arcades in the Seattle area. I leaned toward a NIB because even though I'm handy, I didn't want to spend a lot of time fixing the 1st game. In the end we got a Lord of the Rings (built in 2003) in good condition and played the heck out of it for 2 months. Little things started to wear out or need adjusted, and I've handled them on my own and with some help. However, we decided to add a NIB - and after more research, decided to splurge for a NIB The Beatles (Gold Edition) .

Good combination for us because we love both themes. LOTR games can last 20-30 minutes with up to 10 minutes on a ball (cough cough, we have set to 5 ball), whiles Beatles balls last just a few to several minutes at most (this one is still set to 3 ball).

Our similarities may end late this year or early next year. My wife decreed that if there is a Willy Wonka (1971) machine from Jersey Jack (I expect the rumors are true), then we will have a 3rd machine.

Oh, and I'm going downstairs tonight to re-solder some connections on LOTR so that the Balrog will hopefully stop jerking and return smoothly. While I'm working, I can take a break and play the Beatles!

IMG_2391 (resized).jpg

#24 53 days ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

I'm not too far away from you in Crofton Maryland and would give you a few pieces of advice. As far as distributors go, Pinball Star is drivable, and a good source for machines other than Stern. I say other than Stern because the quote I got from "Colorado Game Exchange" was about $300 less for a new machine delivered to my door than what I received from Pinball Star. My boss has picked up several NIB games from Pinball Star and has nothing but good things to say about them.
I too was worried about the technical difficulty of an older machine. In the 6 months I've had machines at my house, I've had a World Cup Soccer 94, Stern Star Trek, Attack From Mars Remake (current and for sale if you want to take a look) and Jurassic Park. 0 issues with the Attack from Mars (less than a year old), only a few minor things on the Star Trek (physically broken things that were obvious to fix), a few problems on the World Cup Soccer (overtightened nuts causing the motors to not spin properly and improperly seated wires causing lights to go out), and a broken board on the Jurassic Park (took about 6 hours to figure out and fix... I hacked the board). I honestly feel like diagnosing issues that comes up on these machines can be a fun puzzle. I wouldn't be too afraid of an older (90s) machine. If you are concerned with being able to maintain an older machine, get a cheaper one, keep it for a few months, fix it up (or don't) and sell it. If you spend 2700 on a World Cup Soccer, bring it home, but 300 into it fixing it up with new lights, rubbers, and a few parts to get it 100%, and then sell it for 2700 a few months later... how much did it really cost? It is a learning experience, and you can learn more about what you do and do not like in a machine.
I seem to be switching from a couple of A list machines to a mixture of B list machines. At the start of the year I had a Stern Star Trek and an Attack From Mars. I am in the process of converting that to a Jurassic Park (complete), lightly used Stern with Video (Guardians, Star Wars, or Iron Maiden), a favored 80s machine (Pinbot or Black Knight 2000), and a Mame Cabinet. That's pretty much an even money trade. You can set a budget and divide it up however you want. As long as you are not going NIB, you should be able to get about what you buy a machine for out of it (- most mods).
The best advice I can give you is to check out the awesome local scene there is in pinball near DC. The 3 places I go to (that are closes to me) are Crabtowne (30 ish mostly 80s-90s machines with a few new Sterns), MOMS organic Market (50 machines mostly newer), and VUK (15 machines mostly very high end). Between these sites there are 4 of the top 5, 8 of the top 10, 14 of the top 20, 26 of the top 50 on the Pinside 100 I can think of right now... all within 45 minutes of Baltimore. Most of these places have pinball leagues as well (I've never done them but they are there). Go play a lot of pinball machines and make a list of your top 5 or 10 and then wait for a really good deal to pop up local. Check Facebook Marketplace, Pinside, and Craigslist.
The other thing I'd highly recommend doing when exploring these locations is play the same vintage machine in different locations. By that, I mean play the World Cup Soccer at Crabtown, then play the World Cup Soccer at MOMs. This will show you EXACTLY how much difference condition can make in the playability and fun factor in a machine. Another great example would be the Adam's at Crabtown and the Adam's at VUK. As a side note do your self a favor and eat at Crabtowne. You can also play the "would I rather" game at Crabtown and decide something along the lines of, "would I rather have this Deadpool NIB for 5600, or this Fish Tales and Word Cup Soccer, or this Pinbot and Black Knight 2000 and Getaway. It's a fun hobby. If you would like an in depth tour of the underside of a Jurassic Park and/or Attack From Mars Remake let me know, I'm local.
Good luck and with very few exceptions (cough cough Shrek), all pinball is fun.
All in all, you are in a great place, for pinball.

Wow, thank you very much for the detailed posting. Lots of helpful info for me to digest (and future crabs and Old Bay fries at Crabtowne for me to eat). If you don't mind, I will be reaching out to you via PM for more local advice. Coincidentally, the other day I had checked out your ad for the Attack From Mars Remake Special. Although not exactly I am looking for, it does look like a pristine pin you are selling. Hope you find a buyer soon!

Great to know that there's such a supportive community here for pinball beginners like myself. Thanks again to everyone for their insights and tips.

#25 52 days ago

WOW! Fist and foremost thank you all for all the great advise!

I have a pretty good idea of which machines I like, I tend to like games that play fast or have involved rule sets. I play a lot of pinball at the many local places here in the Twin Cities 3-5 times per week at least so I'm pretty familiar with a variety of new and old machines. I'm mechanically inclined and capable so the maintenance and repair doesn't bother me it's actually the part of ownership that I think I'm most interested in besides not having to leave the house to play obviously.

The general consensus defiantly seems like two is the way to go start and as I have been "warned" it'll just be the start.
A couple posters brought up that with all the new games coming out in the next year if I'm patient it might be in my best interest to wait on the JJP pins and get them for less then NIB when people upgrade and I have some more space which I honestly hadn't considered.

If anybody has any suggestions for other DMD or SS machines that would be good I'd love to hear them.

All that being said thank you again everyone!

#26 52 days ago
Quoted from ProjectSmoke:

WOW! Fist and foremost thank you all for all the great advise!
I have a pretty good idea of which machines I like, I tend to like games that play fast or have involved rule sets. I play a lot of pinball at the many local places here in the Twin Cities 3-5 times per week at least so I'm pretty familiar with a variety of new and old machines. I'm mechanically inclined and capable so the maintenance and repair doesn't bother me it's actually the part of ownership that I think I'm most interested in besides not having to leave the house to play obviously.
The general consensus defiantly seems like two is the way to go start and as I have been "warned" it'll just be the start.
A couple posters brought up that with all the new games coming out in the next year if I'm patient it might be in my best interest to wait on the JJP pins and get them for less then NIB when people upgrade and I have some more space which I honestly hadn't considered.
If anybody has any suggestions for other DMD or SS machines that would be good I'd love to hear them.
All that being said thank you again everyone!

What games are you considering?

#27 51 days ago
Quoted from Daditude:

What games are you considering?

-14, fire!, Sttng, star trek pro, black rose, dirty Harry, t2, paragon, fish tales, space shuttle, getaway, Jurassic Park, de star wars, last action hero, bride, Batman 66, X-Men, shadow, dredd, party zone, no fear, radical

#28 51 days ago
Quoted from ProjectSmoke:

-14, fire!, Sttng, star trek pro, black rose, dirty Harry, t2, paragon, fish tales, space shuttle, getaway, Jurassic Park, de star wars, last action hero, bride, Batman 66, X-Men, shadow, dredd, party zone, no fear, radical

Thats a great list. Some will be far harder to find. I have still not found a radical or fire! to play...ever.

#29 51 days ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Thats a great list. Some will be far harder to find. I have still not found a radical or fire! to play...ever.

Fire! is at sparks in Michigan and radical at Logan in Chicago (they rotate games out so call)

#30 51 days ago
Quoted from Msch:

Fire! is at sparks in Michigan and radical at Logan in Chicago (they rotate games out so call)

Thats awesome! But....too far for me.

There are some great places in the Dallas-Fort Worth area (i live right by Dallas). There are also many in Austin (3 hours away...but i get out there sometimes).

#31 47 days ago

Well game one down picked up a Getaway today.

#32 45 days ago

Great first pin.

#33 45 days ago

Getaway was my first pin. Great one to start with. Other advice not mentioned is take your time. No need to rush into buying games. Try to get a lot of playtime on any pin you have interest in. Also try to play games you don't really have interest in. I have found some real gems that I first thought were bad based on theme or for whatever reason. I've also expected to love some games based on theme and layout but found gameplay to be a dud.

#34 45 days ago
Quoted from ProjectSmoke:

Well game one down picked up a Getaway today.

Nice. Getaway was my 1st pin and 15 years later it's still in my collection. Enjoy!

Quoted from jawjaw:

Getaway was my first pin. Great one to start with. Other advice not mentioned is take your time. No need to rush into buying games. Try to get a lot of playtime on any pin you have interest in. Also try to play games you don't really have interest in. I have found some real gems that I first thought were bad based on theme or for whatever reason. I've also expected to love some games based on theme and layout but found gameplay to be a dud.

Yes, sound advice don't rush your collection

#35 45 days ago
Quoted from ProjectSmoke:

Well game one down picked up a Getaway today.

Congrats! My second pin but it was the one that made me love pinball.

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