(Topic ID: 249147)

looking for help to get my Gorgar working

By YVRstormtrooper

4 years ago


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  • 43 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by frunch
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

I bought a Gorgar about 10 months ago, from a local seller. Tried it out at his house and it was working. I made arrangements to buy & pickup the following weekend. Backboard was already down when I arrived and I took care to load it onto my trailer and get it home. When I set it up in the garage, just my luck it wouldn't start up - would light up, but in the top left display it had "1496 1" and in the bottom display "04 00" (see attached image).

I spent sometime and tried re-seating all the harness connectors, installing new batteries, etc. Nothing changed.
Went through Vid's post on bulletproofing the Williams system and ordered up all the parts recommended (replaced capacitors, diodes, etc) while installing an Inkochnito bridge rectifier and a solenoid saver fuse board. When I put it all back together, the machine actually semi-worked (Gorgar spoke and I could use the flippers). When I turned it on the next day...back to the same "1496 1 / 04 00".

I'm posting, hoping that someone could point me in the right direction to try to solve whatever's happening (or if someone is local to Vancouver, BC and wouldn't mind giving me a hand..).

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#2 4 years ago

Also had this issue with mine, it was due to a dead CMOS RAM

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gorgar-not-booting-2

Also, look about the tip to switch it on/off a few times in a row with the door open.

#3 4 years ago

See what the voltage is at the test point for the CMOS - it sounds like you may be losing that voltage. With a meter attached, lightly push or roll each battery and see if you lose the voltage. An analog meter works best, but a digital will work.
Also, look closely at the tabs for the batteries - I've seen those partially break off, and you never get a good, reliable connection to a battery.

#4 4 years ago

Or be done with the batteries and put in a NVram chip.
Barakandl has good parts for it.

Peter

#5 4 years ago

Switching it off and on with the coin door open/closed didn't do anything.
Looking at the coin door, I can't see how the door open or closed affects the power.

Testing the battery voltage I show 4.68VDC (first photo below)

I don't know where the CMOS TP is, but I went through the board and tested the different TPs I could find.
Photos of TP's in order below

TP1 10.96VDC
TP2 3.94 VDC
TP3 4.04 VDC
TP4 4.96 VDC
TP5 4.88 VDC
TP6 2.46 VDC
TP7 4.90 VDC
TP8 4.95 VDC
TP9 5.06 VDC

...did I miss any?

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#6 4 years ago

On the off on off on I think you do it like three times with the door open and pretty quick/fast ending with on. The other thing you can do is go through the diagnostics with your switch’s until it goes through the entire menu then reboots at the end and see if it boots up.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from PoBoyPinball:

On the off on off on I think you do it like three times with the door open and pretty quick/fast ending with on. The other thing you can do is go through the diagnostics with your switch’s until it goes through the entire menu then reboots at the end and see if it boots up.

System 6 games stay in audit/adjustment mode forever... you have to cycle the power to get out of it (system7 exits at the end)

It's probably the nvram chip, either the voltage missing or it's bad. Replace with nvram since it looks like the OP did all the other mods.... might as well.

#8 4 years ago

Change the ram, IC11, it's a 6810. Had the same issue, solved it.

#9 4 years ago

Thank you all for the advice...but I'm still a bit confused.
IC11 is the first pic below and CMOS RAM (according to the schematic I found) is the second pic.

So is the suggestion that I replace the batteries and the CMOS RAM with an NVRAM battery eliminator?

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#10 4 years ago

CPU is booting up in Audit Mode:

Suggest quickest way to resolve is Replace the 5101 Ram first. IC 19

and it looks all available upgrades have been done on this machine except removing the batteries and clipping the battery holder off and adding that eliminator mod.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

Thank you all for the advice...but I'm still a bit confused.
IC11 is the first pic below and CMOS RAM (according to the schematic I found) is the second pic.
So is the suggestion that I replace the batteries and the CMOS RAM with an NVRAM battery eliminator?[quoted image][quoted image]

You are right, my bad! Looked at the wrong schematic!
Ic19 it is indeed!

#12 4 years ago

Just a follow up...I ordered a 5101 battery eliminator, from one of the forum sellers (shipped fast! Thanks!!).

Unfortunately, installing it (after I took out the batteries...and yes, the pin was unplugged) did not solve the machine's issue.

Soooooo frustrating

#13 4 years ago

Did you do the power cycle trick after replacing it?

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

Just a follow up...I ordered a 5101 battery eliminator, from one of the forum sellers (shipped fast! Thanks!!).
Unfortunately, installing it (after I took out the batteries...and yes, the pin was unplugged) did not solve the machine's issue.

Soooooo frustrating

Reset to factory game over mode after replacing Ic 19:

Turn power on open the coin door.
then turn power off and then on rapidly.

#15 4 years ago

Just like the others here are saying: even with a properly working memory circuit, it will still boot up in audit mode when you turn the game on at first.

Once you get it past that though, it should start booting straight into attract mode from that point forward any time you turn the game on...now that the memory circuit should (hopefully) be working properly.

#16 4 years ago

I'll try that when I'm back home after work.

What does opening the coin door do? I don't see any switches/sensors that are connected to it, that would sense door open/closed.

I posted a couple of pics in previous reply, showing that my Gorgar's coin door looks like.

#17 4 years ago

Hmmm there should be a white switch in the cabinet.
Looks like yours was removed. Try to locate the wires and disconnect them (as there must be a hack made by someone) so that the game will think the door is open.
Don't have my gorgar at home to give you the colors of the cables but must be in your many loose cables by the door.

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#18 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

I'll try that when I'm back home after work.
What does opening the coin door do? I don't see any switches/sensors that are connected to it, that would sense door open/closed.
I posted a couple of pics in previous reply, showing that my Gorgar's coin door looks like.

Coin Lockout in an arcade environment:
is a feature that blocks any chance to re boot when batteries fail after any altered settings were programmed such as Pricing until the batteries and settings are confirmed.

Looks like your coin lockout switch is missing.

Bypass Coin Lock out:

Remove the 1J4 plug on the cpu board
Turn power on,
then turn power off and then on rapidly.

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#19 4 years ago

Well that makes more sense. I did try to open the door and switch on and off (without any more success) after work. I did see some taped together wires in the cabinet and when I'm back home I'll investigate those more.

I did discover that the coin slot light bulbs were burnt out, so I did make a bit of progress today with gluing the broken plastic lenses and replacing the bulbs.

I wonder if I can find a replacement switch for the door....is it worth the effort to fix/cleanup the coin mechanism?

#20 4 years ago

Ok... Tried that and ended up with the displays all going to zeros (top display goes between 500000 and 000000). I turned the pin off, replugged 1J4 and turned back on. Displays all blank and no startup. ....I hope I'm making progress...

As for the coin door switch, there are two sets of taped up wires inside. A pair of whites wrapped to a black/red stripe and a pair of reds wrapped to a brown/blue stripe. (Photo attached).

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#21 4 years ago

Ok...noticed that when I power pin on, the two red diagnostic LEDs flash. One long (half second) and two short (1/4 second).

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#22 4 years ago

Okay the 0000000 and the 5000000 is good you just need to add a credit now and you should be able to start a game

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

Ok...noticed that when I power pin on, the two red diagnostic LEDs flash. One long (half second) and two short (1/4 second).[quoted image]

suspect shorted diagnostic switch:

Move the switch from auto down to manual up on the coin door then turn power on.
does the code come back on player 1 ?

Cut black wire with red stripe in green circle and tape off to bypass coin lockout for now.

Knocker was removed these are the connections for it circled red.

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#24 4 years ago

Tested the Auto/Man switch with a DVM and it works (closed on Auto / open on Man).

Powering on with either position has same result with the LED pattern.

De-soldering the black/red from the pair of whites, changes the display back to the nvram clear, so I reconnected and wrapped with e-tape for now.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

Tested the Auto/Man switch with a DVM and it works (closed on Auto / open on Man).
Powering on with either position has same result with the LED pattern.
De-soldering the black/red from the pair of whites, changes the display back to the nvram clear, so I reconnected and wrapped with e-tape for now.

Check for a stuck the advance button/disconnect one wire from it check if the problem goes away: two short (1/4 second)

#26 4 years ago

Should have mentioned they work (closed pushed in / open normally).

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

Tested the Auto/Man switch with a DVM and it works (closed on Auto / open on Man).
Powering on with either position has same result with the LED pattern.
De-soldering the black/red from the pair of whites, changes the display back to the nvram clear, so I reconnected and wrapped with e-tape for now.

both led's flash 2X fast and displays go blank when Advance is pressed suspect IJ4 harness short.
For now leave IJ4 disconnected boot game up add credits then press start.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from PINTEC:

While in game over mode showing zeros and 550000 you're supposed to press the advance button with auto down selected then both led's flash 2X fast and displays go blank suspect IJ4 harness short.
For now leave IJ4 disconnected boot game up add credits then press start.

#29 4 years ago

I unplugged and tested out 1J4 connector and wiring. Nothing is shorted, the wires correctly correspond at each end, and the switch/buttons both correctly register at the board end.

pin_wiring.pdfpin_wiring.pdf
#30 4 years ago

you did replace the big filter cap on the power supply, right?

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

Ok... Tried that and ended up with the displays all going to zeros (top display goes between 500000 and 000000). I turned the pin off, replugged 1J4 and turned back on. Displays all blank and no startup. ....I hope I'm making progress...
As for the coin door switch, there are two sets of taped up wires inside. A pair of whites wrapped to a black/red stripe and a pair of reds wrapped to a brown/blue stripe. (Photo attached).[quoted image][quoted image]

The game boots with 1J4 disconnected and when connected a short is occurring and placing the system into diagnostic when turned on.
Suggest the next step is leave IJ4 disconnected to allow game to boot up, add credits then press start,the idea is to get the game to cycle
then go back to the 1J4 problem.
check the playfield lights are functioning,flippers etc.

#32 4 years ago

Startek2 - if you mean the big capacitor on the power board, yes I replaced it with a radial one (15000uF 35V) from DigiKey.

PINTEC - i spent a couple of hours last night and disconnected the harness plugs and took out the two boards. Went over them with my magnifying light, made sure socketed ICs were seating properly, checked the 40pin header and that looked tight, went over the back of the boards and checked for anything that may be causing an issue.

Put everything back together and powered on.

Now, with 1J4 connected, the pin powers up (I get the 000000/500000 in the top left display and zeros in the rest), but that's the extent....relays don't seem to latch. If I trip the switch on/off/on, I can randomly get "Gorgar", but pushing the credit button doesn't start things up. Playfield lights are flashing, drop down targets don't pop back up.

Feeling the driver board, resistors R96,104,110,116,122,128,134&140 are really warm/hot. I did follow the guide and replaced the 8 TIP42 with IRF9Z34NPBF-ND from DigiKey, along with 1/4W 0ohm resistors.

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#33 4 years ago

Add credits by pressing the coin leaf switch
Must be 01 or higher in Credit window
DT coils reset when game begins.
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#34 4 years ago

Wow...ok. so I set 18 to free play.

I can add credits, Gorgar speaks, and there's a heart beat, flippers work, only about half the bumpers/targets work.

Drop targets don't reset, but the round side targets do.

Definitely a few big steps forward..I really (and I can't express how really) I appreciate the help.

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

Wow...ok. so I set 18 to free play.
I can add credits, Gorgar speaks, and there's a heart beat, flippers work, only about half the bumpers/targets work.
Drop targets don't reset, but the round side targets do.
Definitely a few big steps forward..I really (and I can't express how really) I appreciate the help.

Suggest putting game in diagnostic to check all coils work.
check/clean dirty switches on and under playfield.

drop target assembly's will need cleaning and adjustment

#36 4 years ago

I'll work on that. I think I'll solder in a switch to replace the missing coin door one.
I soldered in a NC one last night, but it didn't take the heat from the soldering iron (should have taken my time and not rushed...lesson learned).
I have a couple of other styles in my spares bin that I can use...

Here's what's not working/left to TS.

gorgar_playfield.pdfgorgar_playfield.pdf
#37 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

I'll work on that. I think I'll solder in a switch to replace the missing coin door one.
I soldered in a NC one last night, but it didn't take the heat from the soldering iron (should have taken my time and not rushed...lesson learned).
I have a couple of other styles in my spares bin that I can use...
Here's what's not working/left to TS.[quoted image]

Flippers are on their own fuse.
No coils:

Check these fuses:

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#38 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

I'll work on that. I think I'll solder in a switch to replace the missing coin door one.
I soldered in a NC one last night, but it didn't take the heat from the soldering iron (should have taken my time and not rushed...lesson learned).
I have a couple of other styles in my spares bin that I can use...
Here's what's not working/left to TS.[quoted image]

Man that playfield has amazing colors. Hope you can continue to get it functioning

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

Man that playfield has amazing colors. Hope you can continue to get it functioning

That's got to be a overlay. Look at the extra ball insert and the "1,2,3,4" round insert with the 1 missing. But... still very nice.

#40 4 years ago

No issues with the flippers, but the pop bumpers don't work, drop targets don't reset (they do trigger when dropped), drain kicker (to pop the ball into the shooting lane), side bumpers, and the solenoid to kick the ball out of the little magnetic hole all aren't working.

I installed a "solenoid saver" to fuse the solenoids on the 2J12 harness, but connecting that plug directly to the driver board didn't solve that.
Checked the fuses on the power board and on the bridge rectifier and they are all good, but looking at the solenoid wiring diagram, 3J3 Solenoid B+ (+28VDC) is the common pathway. Maybe an issue with the ground side...I'll work on troubleshooting that.

When I originally looked at buying the pin, I know one set of the GOR / GAR drop targets had an issue resetting, but the other solenoids were working at the time.

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

No issues with the flippers, but the pop bumpers don't work, drop targets don't reset (they do trigger when dropped), drain kicker (to pop the ball into the shooting lane), side bumpers, and the solenoid to kick the ball out of the little magnetic hole all aren't working.
I installed a "solenoid saver" to fuse the solenoids on the 2J12 harness, but connecting that plug directly to the driver board didn't solve that.
Checked the fuses on the power board and on the bridge rectifier and they are all good, but looking at the solenoid wiring diagram, 3J3 Solenoid B+ (+28VDC) is the common pathway. Maybe an issue with the ground side...I'll work on troubleshooting that.
When I originally looked at buying the pin, I know one set of the GOR / GAR drop targets had an issue resetting, but the other solenoids were working at the time.

The driverboard controls Ground outputs to coils:

Test coils Manually:

Attach a ground wire use the other end to momentary test coils by touching the transistor tabs on left of driver board

williams-pinball-system-6-driver-board-from-a-1980-blackout (resized).jpgwilliams-pinball-system-6-driver-board-from-a-1980-blackout (resized).jpg
#42 4 years ago

Hi all....thank you all for the help!

Just an update on what I found.

The original error (1496 display) may have been caused by a piece of the backplane (the green part) flaking off and taking with it some solder...then ending up stuck on the back on a couple of traces.

The solenoid issue, seems to have been the fuse on the power supply. When I first measured voltage I got 28VDC and when I measured ohms/continuity, the fuse was good. Weird thing is I popped it out and measured and it was open.
I replaced the fuse and solenoids worked!

Now, I've spent the afternoon going through the lamp tests and fixing/replacing burnt out bulbs (found a couple of broken wires going to bulbs and resoldered) and testing solenoids. Also touched up the cabinet box with flat black on the parts that are damaged.

The GOR drop targets may need to be cleaned/adjusted and I will work on swapping out the cracked rubber for new.

Going to work on touching up the artwork on the back glass later this week and get a key made for the back board lock.

Future plans are to convert to LEDs, maybe add some vinyl stickers to the sides inside, repair the coin door switch that's missing and maybe the cabinet knocker (why would that be missing/removed?).

I had originally bought because a coworker rely wanted a Gorgar (didn't have the room in his garage right away and I did), but I think I'll add it to my other three pins.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from YVRstormtrooper:

When I first measured voltage I got 28VDC and when I measured ohms/continuity, the fuse was good. Weird thing is I popped it out and measured and it was open.
I replaced the fuse and solenoids worked!

This is why it's always recommended to pull out any suspect fuses and check them with your meter. Glad you got to the bottom of that issue! Gorgar is a great game, enjoy!

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