(Topic ID: 175247)

Looking for Ball Count & Advance Unit for Williams Blue Chip

By bdPinball

7 years ago


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  • 39 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by zacaj
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#3 7 years ago

Why do you feel you need to replace it? Short of massive burn marks I've never seen a stepper that needed outright replacement...

#6 7 years ago

If you need anything for reference, I've also got a Blue Chip in the fix up queue I can get some pictures of. Is the ball unit really that different from the one on other games?

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

A multiplayer game doesn't have a ball count unit, they 90% of the time have player units, and 4-player games have player units 100% of the time, just like the games mentioned above. (Honey and OXO) They will not work. For the advance unit, more likely it will work from one of those games. (Read below though!)

Many Williams four player EMs have both a player unit and a ball count unit? My Super Straight + Aztec has a 4 step player unit and a 5 step ball count unit. My 2P Black Jack has a 5 step ball count and a relay for player 1/2. I've never worked on any non-gottlieb game that only had a player unit for both.

Specifically though, the OP needs an *add a ball* ball count unit, which is quite possibly completely different from a 4P ball count unit

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

Huh, really? Most of my experience is inside of my Gottlieb games (like a ton, oddly enough), but I've never noticed "double units" on my multiplayer Williams games either. It is entirely possible I missed them as I haven't been inside of them nearly as much (again, oddly, but I'm not complaining!) but I don't understand why they would use both.
Are you sure? Interesting.

My experience with Williams EMs is limited to '72+, but every one I've worked with has a player unit whose reset coil is tied to the ball count unit step up EOS switch through the player reset relay

Quoted from Otaku:

(like a ton, oddly enough)

Pshaw, how could that be?

Quoted from Otaku:

(again, oddly, but I'm not complaining!)

Williams/Bally > Gottlieb

Quoted from Otaku:

I've never noticed "double units" on my multiplayer Williams games

Usually on mine the ball count unit has been in the bottom (iirc) and the player unit is in the head. Take a look in your space mission or strato-flite

#18 7 years ago

The alternator relay is controlled by the match unit, which is the small stepper pictured above. It's supposed to step 00-90 when slingshots, etc are hit, and whether it's 0/2/4/etc or 1/3/5/etc controls the alternator relay. If for some reason the match unit won't step, it would make sense to have it stuck on some specific number like 60.

Doesn't have anything to do with the ball count though...

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I have to be honest-- it doesn't sound like your guy really knows what he's talking about.

Either that or something's getting lost in translation

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Based on all your postings here, you likely need the match unit (which you say you can get from your "Honey" machine), and perhaps the ball count unit is just gummed up, misadjusted, or may be missing a spring or two. Not anything that a reasonably decent EM pinball tech shouldn't be able to handle easily.

Depends on where that 'over filed' part is. If it's on the match unit, he's good, if it's on the ball count, he's still in trouble

1 week later
#30 7 years ago
Quoted from bdPinball:

Okay, I got the Blue Chip back. he's got it working pretty good. however:
1) The alternator unit doesn't work at all. It needs to be replaced. it's the small one, with just one single small coil that triggers the wheel to go around.
2) The problem that it has involves the ball count unit. apparently the wheel itself had been ground upon by a previous owner, and the teeth don't catch properly. In addition to this, one of the two latches, that catch the teeth, apparently was filed also, so badly he made one himself and threw the other one away. He tells me that if we DID replace the latch, without replacing the wheel as well, that it'd have the same problem. As it is, the game gives a random number of balls. Usually between 4-6, but sometimes 10!
This ball count unit is count up / count down unit - and it's one of the "dueling" floating catches.
I remember the first time I ever examine the mech being impressed for how the unit sort of glides back and forth depending if it's counting up or down. Anyway, that looks like the standard counting unit like in all the other count units, although this up-down is a little special. Seems to me that honey must have two of those types. I've pulled the old head for the Honey out to compare, and I have the Blue chip here to look at as well, however putting this BC in with the rest of my games has removed all the room to move around to fix anything!
I'm worried that spending much more time and effort making this game work perfectly will make it "upside down."
How much could a Blue Chip in good shape bring? 1200?
I would gather many people who play it wouldn't notice the alternator not working, and the ball problem, that might not be a problem for some people either. How do you decide when to stop making something "correct?" People who work on used cars, go ONLY as far as absolutely necessary to make the thing roll. I'd say the game rolls, and it's pretty much a fun game to play, however a collector is not going to be happy about these issues. Thoughts?
-Brian

The match unit shouldn't be hard to find. Alternately, you could just find the alternator relay and bridge all the make/break switches together so that both pops and special are always on. Would be much nicer than just one side being lit. Either way though, there's no way you're getting 1200 for a Blue Chip with any problems (or at all, but)

1 week later
#34 7 years ago

You really just need a relay that latches itself off a pulse from the switch and whose power comes from a relay that opens on game start. That's how the regular over the top / 100k lights work

#36 7 years ago

One end of the coil through a switch (that opens on game over) on the game over relay(or maybe some other relay, the switch might have to be added if there aren't any matching) that then connects immediately to the main line, the other side goes to two places: the new switch on the reel, and to a NO switch on the new relay. Other side of both switches goes to the (other) main line. When the reel switch closes, it'll close the relay temporarily, and the NO switch on the relay will then also close, which will continue to provide power to the relay after the reel switch opens. Since both switches go to the game over switch, when the game ends the relay will lose power. Put a second switch on the new relay that controls your light.

#39 7 years ago
Quoted from bdPinball:

Sorry,, I was going to have it lite up some sort of a "Millionaire!" topper or something. Nothing too elaborate, but It seemes like the game is pretty easy to roll, so to keep track of it is reasonable.
-Brian

What settings do you have it on? I'm lucky to break 400k on mine

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