(Topic ID: 131980)

Looking for a better solution to IDC connectors on WPC pins

By Chico

8 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Mk1Mod0
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    #1 8 years ago

    Howdy all,
    I'm working on a WPC pin that has the connector at J101 burned up. Its one of those crazy loop around connectors that really can't be replaced like factory even if you wanted to. So after much research, I came to the conclusion that I don't really like the IDC connectors even though they are fairly quick to install with the proper tools. So after even more research, I've come to the conclusion that I would like to replace my IDC plugs with something better. I just thought I would seek the sage wisdom of the community as to what I've come up with.

    I'd like to swap over my connectors, headers, and crimp pins. And after a lot more research, this is what I've come up with.
    Connectors: Series 41695 plugs (capable of using stadard, Trifurcon, and the MarKK pins)
    Crimp Pins: Series 45570 (aka MarKK rated at 13Amps)
    Headers: Series 41671, or 41791 (both are polarized, rated 7 amp@250V, and have a UL 94 V-0 heat resistance rating.

    Exact specs can be found at mouser by searching for molex and the series numbers above.

    The headers are the missing link. I believe the 41791 has just a slightly larger footprint than the TE/AMP headers. Although, it appears as to be the better of the two. The 41671 headers are a little smaller than the factory headers, built a little lighter and are "Breakaway" headers in case you need to cut them down. Although they are a lighter design, they look more like they might be interchangeable with the TE/Amp connectors. Since the crimp pins require, a square header pin, and the Molex KK system is all designed to work together, more or less, my thought was that I would need to swap the headers out as well....which is a good idea since they probably got hot as well.

    The drawback of changing the headers out is that the board would no longer be interchangeable, unless of course, the IDC connector plugs would work with one of these headers types. I hope someone will know if that might be the case. I've also heard that IDC headers will accept certain molex plugs without any problems. Although, I would again need to check the drawing specs to see if the pins are the same size and both square. Third, its a lot of work and most people will tell you, don't reinvent the wheel.

    SO my question is,
    1. Does anyone know the mouser part number for the exact header pins WPC used for J101 so I can check the engineering drawing for compatibility.
    2. Anyone out there ran into this before and just happens to know the answer.
    3. Any thoughts as to how useful this would be in general. I know I'm not the only one who doesn't particularly care for IDC plugs. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.

    I'm not looking to swap out all my IDC plugs on all my pins. I'm just looking for a system that I can keep hand to take care of all future WPC plug and wiring problems as they inevitably pop up.

    FWIW, I also know you can use the series 41661 headers and the above connector (and presumably those MarKK crimp pins) to fix the GI at J120 and J121. Although the headers are not polarized, it doesn't really need to be for the GI since they are all tied together.

    #8 8 years ago

    Thanks for the tip Schaggs,
    It appears that the 24 position break away header connectors are much cheaper at GPE. And checking the number, its in the 41671 series I mentioned above. His 41695 series plugs seem to be the same as the ones I was looking at at mouser. Although, GPE's plugs have a solid ramp and the mouser plugs have 3 shorter ramps to polarize them. Either way, if you buy at least 10, it looks as though mouser is cheaper. Ordering less than 10, GPE is cheaper. As for the 45570 crimp pins, I would buy these: 538-45570-3000-CT from mouser. Its about 10 cents per pin, instead of 15 from GPE. But you will have to snip them off a strip and buy 100 at a time. Pretty sure they're the same connector though.

    To ChrisHibler,
    Thanks for the link to pinwiki. But in my defence, I had already been looking up plugs for a while. It was only before I posted that I researched pinside and found the pinwiki guide. I was pleased to find out that they had come to the same conclusions I had.

    One of the other points of reference I had come across was this youtube guide on connectors from some guy Ray.


    It's fairly informative although I did have 1 problem with something he said about black connectors being higher quality over white ones. And according to the data sheets, that doesn't seem to be the case with the connectors above. You can view that part at 14 min in on the vid.

    As for which one is better IDC or Molex, they both seem good, and it might be better just to go back with the factory plugs. And if I had a nice crimper for the IDC plugs, I might go that route, but the molex seems the better option overall.

    And while I appreciate the advice and links, I still haven't gotten an answer to my initial questions:
    What is the mouser number or manufacturing number for the actual header used at J101 ( or any of the larger IDC headers on a WPC) so I can look at the engineering drawing to see if either of the molex headers series above will be compatible the original IDC plugs, or if the 41695 connectors are compatible with the original IDC headers.) And second, has anyone used molex headers on a WPC power board, and then swapped it to another machine to know whether the two were compatible. Specifically, the 41671 and 41691 series headers.

    Like I said initially, I'd like to upgrade bad plugs to more reliable ones, but it would be nice to keep compatibility with other WPC machines.

    Either way, thanks for the replies thus far. Looks like I'll have to get an order up with GPE soon.

    #13 8 years ago

    Well,
    My problem with the Black vrs White statement was that the Data sheets for both the 41671 and 41791 both list them with a UL 94 V-0 heat resistance rating. I actually bought some 3069 series black molex crimp housings since I thought they were more heat resistant(supposedly up to about 800 degrees) . But I found that they actually had a UL 94 V-2 rating. And best I can figure, that's the weakest of the UL ratings. Plus, they only accepted the standard crimp pins. So by molex's data sheets, the 41695 series seems to be the best plugs they make in terms heat resistance and the ability to use any crimp pin they make. But the Black vrs. White is still fairly confusing. I know the black ones probably have carbon black added, but assumed that since the heat ratings were the same, white was as good as black. You would think that if black really was superior to white, they would sell 41695 plugs made out of black plastic. And they don't. Very confusing.

    #16 8 years ago

    Most of the molex KK connectors for the 3.96mm pitch should all use the same standard crimp pins. So I would think it would be just the same friction to remove as the white plugs assuming the same number of pins per connector. But as the previous poster stated, the plastic itself could be stiffer.....or the design could be slightly different. The 3069 series that I mentioned earlier seems like a beefier connector than some of the cheaper molex connectors. So I don't know. Only real thing I had to go on is the data sheets...and the video Ray did which may or may not be 100% accurate. But when I looked up what the UL ratings meant, it seemed pretty scientific...After al, they are the Underwriters Laboratory. And if I understood what I read, UL 94V-0 is greater than UL 94V-1 is greater than UL 94 V-2 .

    #21 8 years ago

    Well, I'd have to say I agree with the last 3 posters for the most part. The thought had crossed my mind, why treat the symptom when you can treat the disease. Then the thought crossed mind, "well, crap happens....why not treat both". But like I said before. It appears its a one or the other case since the 3069 series doesn't fit the 45570 pins. And like the poster who said who cares whether its white or black. If the black was truly better rated as Ray stated in his video, that would be the color to choose. Either way, its a moot point since the breakaway header (41671 series) pins are fairly cheap from GPE, and they happen to be black. And the 24 position ones work with pretty much everything. So win, win. As for the Pancon, I think I heard they were rated for 13 amp as well if its the one Ray mentioned on the video. So I might have to look into it further.

    So thus far, it looks like:
    Crimp Connectors 41695 series
    Crimp Pins 45570 series
    and header pins 41671 series

    and I guess, If I need to swap it to another machine, I'll just have to break out the crimpers and solder iron if it doesn't fit.

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