Quoted from cooked71:Hmmm....something fishy going on here.
It actually played well and I’m not a huge fan of sterns or EMs. The flippers were strong and I did get a few air balls.
(Topic ID: 235404)
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Though it looks different, It's actually the same machine. JP's pics were with the flash on from directly above. Mine were without flash and more of an angle and with the reflection of the LCD off the playfield.
Guys that tap out dents in a car always look at an angle and at a reflection off it otherwise you can't see indentations.
I was actually there again tonight playing it (I really like the game) and asked a guy waiting to play if he noticed the wear, and he said he did. It's plainly visible to the naked eye. It does matter how you photograph it. Rain will hardly photograph at all without being backlit.
Sana'a
Quoted from cooked71:You know, I think you’re right, I only counted 9ply when I got it back.....bastards.
Might start a thread on it.
better to start 3 or 4. is the pinside way
Quoted from Vdrums:Though it looks different, It's actually the same machine. JP's pics were with the flash on from directly above. Mine were without flash and more of an angle and with the reflection of the LCD off the playfield.
Guys that tap out dents in a car always look at an angle and at a reflection off it otherwise you can't see indentations.
I was actually there again tonight playing it (I really like the game) and asked a guy waiting to play if he noticed the wear, and he said he did. It's plainly visible to the naked eye. It does matter how you photograph it. Rain will hardly photograph at all without being backlit.
Right. So basically, this "dimpling" issue can be completely fixed by not trying to find it or photograph it.
Like last night, I was playing Munsters for the first time at Sunshine. Played a couple games. Watched other people playing games. Zero dimpling issues, cause I'm not insane.
But then, I suddenly remembered...Oh dimpling!!!
And I looked REALLY HARD.
And I found dimpling.
I am now insane.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I am now insane.
But you go by Crazy? It doesn’t make any sense... now I am insane too...
Quoted from Vdrums:I was actually there again tonight playing it (I really like the game) and asked a guy waiting to play if he noticed the wear, and he said he did. It's plainly visible to the naked eye.
"Hey buddy! Do you notice all that playfield wear?"
Huh?
"The egregious playfield wear! All of that dimpling?"
huh?
"Those tiny little pockmarks everywhere! Do you notice it? Right there! Look close and you'll see what I mean!"
Oh yeah, sure. Hey can I finish my game?
"I'm posting this testimony to Pinside ASAP!!!!!!"
Sydney
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Right. So basically, this "dimpling" issue can be completely fixed by not trying to find it or photograph it.
It's like some areas of quantum physics. It's doesn't exist without an observer.
I couldn’t see the dimples with my eyes against the glass. I ended up using the flash to hopefully capture them but no luck. I’m no Stern apologist either like some people here.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Right. So basically, this "dimpling" issue can be completely fixed by not trying to find it or photograph it.
Like last night, I was playing Munsters for the first time at Sunshine. Played a couple games. Watched other people playing games. Zero dimpling issues, cause I'm not insane.
But then, I suddenly remembered...Oh dimpling!!!
And I looked REALLY HARD.
And I found dimpling.
I am now insane.
Don’t look or else!
C8DFF733-A37E-4822-B48E-9683FFF2AF86 (resized).jpegThe dimples are like crap on your windshield. You don't notice them until the light hits it just right but it is there.
As I normally stand playing the game the backbox light shines on the PF and refracts on the dimples making them visible on Iron Maiden on the "beast" where there are many air balls. These are the biggest and most noticeable dimples.
As I move my head lower and the angle of the backbox lamp refracting off the PF changes I can see the dimples become visible and slide across.
I am pretty sure dimples would happen on any game but they are much more noticeable on these new Sterns because....
The flippers, slings and pops are really powerful causing air balls
The playfiled is lit up really bright
The clearcoat on the playfield is thick and refracts more light
No comment on the "soft wood" as I really dont know... but i think it would be naive to say in general wood is wood everyone is going to behave the same as far as dimpling. Its a natural product that gets prepared.
Quoted from barakandl:As I normally stand playing the game the backbox light shines on the PF and refracts on the dimples making them visible on Iron Maiden on the "beast" where there are many air balls. These are the biggest and most noticeable dimples.
FYI, the SAM games have a menu setting to dim the backbox lights during game play. This really helps with glare. I put mine to around 15%.
I use playfield protectors on all my games that I have restored, refreshed or whatever you want to call it.
I always try to put a new playfield in them, so why not protect them. And if I deciede to sell the game, it will look nice for the next owner. If I bought a new game, which I probably never will, I would buy one for it too. Problem solved.
Quoted from TheLaw:because they aren't needed
I have seen a lot of posts complaining about this very topic, so for me, I would rather not chance it, because then I would have to come here and complain about it 
Quoted from cooked71:look at the dimples on my iphone after 1 month
Looks like beads of water to me. Everyone see things differently I guess. Do you see movement in this picture?
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from timab2000:I have seen a lot of posts complaining about this very topic, so for me, I would rather not chance it, because then I would have to come here and complain about it
Oh sure, your logic is sound. But we don;t let wackos in our homes to purchase games 
Quoted from TheLaw:But we don;t let wackos in our homes to purchase games
I certainly hope not
Quoted from timab2000:Do you see movement in this picture?
Or this one? 
anttidote_golden_shit (resized).jpgQuoted from timab2000:I use playfield protectors on all my games that I have restored, refreshed or whatever you want to call it.
I always try to put a new playfield in them, so why not protect them. And if I deciede to sell the game, it will look nice for the next owner. If I bought a new game, which I probably never will, I would buy one for it too. Problem solved.
Thats great except games play like shit with the protectors on...
My mom always did this, bought a new couch and the entire time we had it there was always a crappy looking sheet over it, when she sold it at a yard sale for a few bucks it looked brand new for the new owner...she never got to enjoy the couch herself
Quoted from cosmokramer:Thats great except games play like shit with the protectors on...
My mom always did this, bought a new couch and the entire time we had it there was always a crappy looking sheet over it, when she sold it at a yard sale for a few bucks it looked brand new for the new owner...she never got to enjoy the couch herself
A sheet is better than plastic!
couch.jpgQuoted from doublestack:If stern does nothing I will be making a thread on this very soon.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I cannot wait!
Quoted from fosaisu:Since we're talking dimples, I remember people saying that TNA used a sweet new dimple-resistant clear. Anyone taken a look at one that's been on-route for a year or so now and able to report back?
I purchased TNA new and it now has several hundred plays. It has dimples every where and you know what? I don't care.
Pinball machines by nature begin to fall apart as soon as they are put into use. I was hoping that the rumor you mentioned above would be true, but it is not.
I have NOT had any major issues with chipping around posts as a few TNA buyers did.
Interestingly enough the only playfield I have seen that has NOT dimpled is on a Kruzman cleared playfield in a Pinball Magic. That game has a LOT of airballs and not a dimple on it. Whatever Ron's recipe is - it's got the secret sauce.
If you want perfection and something that (in my experience) is less likely to dimple - send it to Kruzman.
Levi, I basically agree with you that dimplegate is much ado about nothing. But I also know that you own zero games, and it's pretty easy to troll people who spend thousands of dollars on a toy and want it to look nice. Those raised rings around the posts are a bigger deal than dimples, and can eventually shatter, leaving a mess that even a blind old location player might notice.
I was a location rat for years; I've been a collector for years. You have a point, I get it, but there's gotta be something more fun to do in NYC than troll middle-aged toy collectors.
Quoted from yancy:Levi, I basically agree with you that dimplegate is much ado about nothing. But I also know that you own zero games, and it's pretty easy to troll people who spend thousands of dollars on a toy and want it to look nice. Those raised rings around the posts are a bigger deal than dimples, and can eventually shatter, leaving a mess that even a blind old location player might notice.
I was a location rat for years; I've been a collector for years. You have a point, I get it, but there's gotta be something more fun to do in NYC than troll middle-aged toy collectors.
I own 20 games.
And there's nothing more fun to do from 9 to 5 in NYC than troll middle-aged toy collectors. I may as well be in the midwest when I'm at work.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I own 20 games.
My bad; I could've sworn you said something about not owning anything and just being a location player. Must've been some other scamp.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:And there's nothing more fun to do from 9 to 5 in NYC than troll middle-aged toy collectors.
Guess I'll cancel my trip.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I cannot wait!
How edgy! I couldn't care less about dimples or any other normal wear. I do care that after a year the playfield is like putty around the posts. I'm not a "toy collector", every game I own is on route for people to play.
Carefull on generalizing people and their place of residence. It's a slippery slope, but hey if you need it to feel good, go for it.
Quoted from doublestack:I'd love to just have a few dimples. Here's our maiden playfield that was bought new last year. The clear is still soft, and this is around every post...
If stern does nothing I will be making a thread on this very soon.
Not trolling, just asking here because it is hard to see what is exactly happening from a one-dimensional picture. It looks like more than just the clear is raised.....like maybe the posts were tightened too tight and the wood fibers have pushed out? Or am I looking at this wrong? Just trying to determine if it is actually a clear coat issue.
Quoted from doublestack:How edgy! I couldn't care less about dimples or any other normal wear. I do care that after a year the playfield is like putty around the posts. I'm not a "toy collector", every game I own is on route for people to play.
Carefull on generalizing people and their place of residence. It's a slippery slope, but hey if you need it to feel good, go for it.
What in god's name are you talking about?
When did I "generalize" about anybody's place of residence? I was responding to the assertion that somehow I should be out partying at 3pm on a work day because I live in NYC instead of making fun of dimples.
Look, you are threatening to start a thread exposing Stern for their putty playfields. You've proven you mean business by posting pics in an unrelated thread.
So I'm just looking forward to the main event. How long does Stern have before you take action? When is the hammer gonna fall?
Quoted from Manimal:Not trolling, just asking here because it is hard to see what is exactly happening from a one-dimensional picture. It looks like more than just the clear is raised.....like maybe the posts were tightened too tight and the wood fibers have pushed out? Or am I looking at this wrong? Just trying to determine if it is actually a clear coat issue.
If it's like the ones I've encountered, seems like the playfields are assembled before clear has fully cured, and posts deform the clear when they're screwed down. Then the displaced clear cures into those little raised donuts. Generally the ball can't hit them, but I've seen them crack/shatter.
In my opinion those cross the line from OCD blemish to manufacturing defect.
Quoted from kcZ:I use Superballs in my games so that I don't get dimples.
Perfect! Don’t build a better playfield, build a better ball!
02CC3604-195F-4D8B-8BB2-7AAE67290C46 (resized).jpegThis never happened to an original Seawitch.
Oh yeah, they weren't clear coated. The just wore to the bare wood and planked. No problem there though.
Nothing to see here, move along...
Quoted from Manimal:Not trolling, just asking here because it is hard to see what is exactly happening from a one-dimensional picture. It looks like more than just the clear is raised.....like maybe the posts were tightened too tight and the wood fibers have pushed out? Or am I looking at this wrong? Just trying to determine if it is actually a clear coat issue.
It is just the clear, I don't believe the wood is displaced at all.
Quoted from yancy:If it's like the ones I've encountered, seems like the playfields are assembled before clear has fully cured, and posts deform the clear when they're screwed down. Then the displaced clear cures into those little raised donuts. Generally the ball can't hit them, but I've seen them crack/shatter.
In my opinion those cross the line from OCD blemish to manufacturing defect.
Yancy this is exactly what I think happened from what we can tell. We brushed it off at first however it's grown in size and well, still pliable. Our thought is that at some point it may start cracking. Although if it hasn't started yet maybe it never will, I honestly don't know.
I actually really like stern and am still very happy with most of their products. Not looking to "expose" them, I'll leave all that to dateline or 20/20. Many of us around the Midwest received similiar issues with our IMDN.
Quoted from pinbum:I am curious to know if Stern used mylar instead of clearcoat would the playfields still dimple.
Yes.
When you remove Mylar, there are millions of dimples under it.
Look at this 1985 Comet when I pulled up the factory Mylar:
5ce70e76e7ba1d59c7d031ec5dda3e9d32903678 (resized).jpgQuoted from doublestack:I'd love to just have a few dimples. Here's our maiden playfield that was bought new last year. The clear is still soft, and this is around every post...
If stern does nothing I will be making a thread on this very soon.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Soft paint, parts installed before proper curing time, call Stern and ask for a new one.
Ask for one that has been cured, properly in an oven, I wish you all the best.
If I was to see this on a Stern flyer before a purchase I don't think they would sell any pins.
Let us know how you get along mate.
2.9.19 Stern Service Bulletin:
To ensure playfield clearcoat cures correctly, unbox your game and set up in desired location with room temperature environment. Remove glass. Leave game sitting with glass off for 6 months without playing. This may reduce dimples and issues with clear coat on some, but not all, games.
Sit back, and enjoy!
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:2.9.19 Stern Service Bulletin:
To ensure playfield clearcoat cures correctly, unbox your game and set up in desired location with room temperature environment. Remove glass. Leave game sitting with glass off for 6 months without playing. This may reduce dimples and issues with clear coat on some, but not all, games.
Sit back, and enjoy!
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