(Topic ID: 235404)

Look at what a few week old Beatles playfield looks like!


By Vdrums

78 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 209 posts
  • 90 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 31 days ago by Travish
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Is this acceptable dimpling?”

  • YES 47 votes
    47%
  • NO 54 votes
    53%

(101 votes)

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There are 209 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
#101 76 days ago

I’m thinking it’s partly the fault of the super glossy thick clear coat that everyone likes on a shiny NIB game. It amplifies the dimple and in many cases, it is the only thing dimpled.

I had a 1000 year old TZ and had the Pf restored and cleared. Played it for about 1yr before sending it off. Not one dimple before the restoration. When I got it back, the pf looked amazing and the clear was smooth and glossy. After a few plays it was covered in dimples.

#102 76 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I’m thinking it’s partly the fault of the super glossy thick clear coat that everyone likes on a shiny NIB game. It amplifies the dimple and in many cases, it is the only thing dimpled.

Bingo. This is why all these braniacs aren't seeing "dimples" on their 45-year old Gottlieb playfields; there's no clearcoat!

#103 76 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Bingo. This is why all these braniacs aren't seeing "dimples" on your 45-year old Gottlieb playfields; there's no clearcoat!

"Lots of 'tards living kick ass lives" ..... buying $8k pins, etc
-Dr Lexus

#104 76 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I’m thinking it’s partly the fault of the super glossy thick clear coat that everyone likes on a shiny NIB game. It amplifies the dimple and in many cases, it is the only thing dimpled.
I had a 1000 year old TZ and had the Pf restored and cleared. Played it for about 1yr before sending it off. Not one dimple before the restoration. When I got it back, the pf looked amazing and the clear was smooth and glossy. After a few plays it was covered in dimples.

clearly they switched your playfield to a new one and used garbage wood too. did you count the plies? probably isn't even 12 like it should have been...

#105 76 days ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

"Lots of 'tards living kick ass lives" ..... buying $8k pins, etc
-Dr Lexus

My x wife is tarded....she’s a pilot now.

—-dr Lexus.

#106 76 days ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

clearly they switched your playfield to a new one and used garbage wood too. did you count the plies? probably isn't even 12 like it should have been...

You know, I think you’re right, I only counted 9ply when I got it back.....bastards.

Might start a thread on it.

#107 76 days ago

Clear is designed to be 2 coats max. This is why its chipping and denting when 6 coats are added to a compressible material.

#108 76 days ago

My MET after quite a lot of play.

But I have to say it is not that noticable now than it was when the game was new. You really notice it at all now directly from above when playing.
If you are really looking for it and at an angle down low against some light you can see it, but when do you really do that?

And sorry about the music I just picked something quick.

#109 76 days ago
Quoted from VacFink:

Joking aside. I can't think of a single thing that is as good today as it was years ago

Table saws.

Telephones.

Firearms.

Locomotives.

Plywood

Cameras.

Motor oil.

Organ transplants.

Sports cars (2006 Ford GT @ 293 MPH)

#110 76 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Table saws.

Telephones.

Firearms.

Locomotives.

Plywood

Cameras.

Motor oil.

Organ transplants.

Sports cars (2006 Ford GT @ 293 MPH)

Now I with I'd thought of those. Guess we should add 'adult' toys and antiseptics to that list as well. Touche!

#111 76 days ago

The new sure test for how many plays on a game could now be how many dimples instead of shooter wear.

#112 76 days ago
Quoted from lancestorm:

damn dimples redirecting the ball!

I said crater, not dimple... dimples are cute, and everyone has them, craters are whats left once you pull that giant blackhead out of your forhead after your wife or girlfriend asks you what cyclops you stole your third eye from.

#113 76 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can't really be much of a plywood authority if you think that ANY plywood on the entire face of the planet has ever been made with 10 or 12 layers.
You have tipped your cards and shown you are both a pinball and plywood nubie.....

Ah be nice Vid... did people call you a "nube" when you raved that a "deluxe" Strat had a "little spring under the whammy bar"?

Everybody knows the basic Strat has had that since the 60's or earlier. The deluxes DON'T use a spring and use a pop-in bar with an allen head adjustment. In fact the only thing "deluxe" about it were the locking tuners... you got everything else wrong. I tried to gently correct you early in that thread but you just ignored it of course. I see all kinds of similar dubious claims from you but who cares... this stuff is supposed to be fun to talk about. And you're usually a funny guy.

So he got the plywood count wrong... fact is my TWD will never end up looking as good as that AFM pic you got off the net. My AFM is right next to the TWD.

There's a lot to consider as the shinier clear does show it off more... improper drying time WILL give you softer wood, etc... this is just supposed to be something interesting to talk about.

#114 76 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

I said crater, not dimple... dimples are cute, and everyone has them, craters are whats left once you pull that giant blackhead out of your forhead after your wife or girlfriend asks you what cyclops you stole your third eye from.

Gnarly description... I'm afraid to ask if that has something to with your alias

#115 76 days ago
Quoted from Manic:

Everybody knows the basic Strat has had that since the 60's or earlier. The deluxes DON'T use a spring and use a pop-in bar with an allen head adjustment. In fact the only thing "deluxe" about it were the locking tuners... you got everything else wrong. I tried to gently correct you early in that thread but you just ignored it of course.

Whenever that was, I obviously missed the point that we were talking about a Deluxe Strat, and not a Deluxe Roadhouse Strat.

Often I'm posting and driving, drinking and driving, posting and drinking.

So obviously my I owe you a belated apology!

(...and will regretfully turn in my lifelong Strat owner's card.)

zzz_20180403_144259342 (resized).jpg

#116 76 days ago
Quoted from Manic:

fact is my TWD will never end up looking as good as that AFM pic you got off the net.

I have the uncropped original of that picture, cause I took it.

#117 76 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Whenever that was, I obviously missed the point that we were talking about a Deluxe Strat, and not a Deluxe Roadhouse Strat.
Often I'm posting and driving, drinking and driving, posting and drinking.
So obviously my I owe you a belated apology and will regretfully turn in my lifelong Strat owner's card. [quoted image]

So you were amazed that a Roadhouse Strat had a spring under the whammy? Hmm I just figured the one you had when you were younger had lost the spring before you got it. Easy to lose that little inchworm. Hence the sticker over the whammy hole when you buy them new.

Whatever... you'll always be my favorite king dick

#118 76 days ago
Quoted from Manic:

Whatever... you'll always be my favorite king dick

Thank you, honestly that means a lot to me.

#119 76 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's been the same since the 1940.

Again with all due respect-I disagree. Plywood has way too many variables to be the 'same' or consistent. You can tell me wood species are produced the same way since 1940-sorry but I disagree. Try finding decent Redwood today to build a deck.

I can look at Bally/Williams playfields and notice very little core gap-again very dense substrate. Both core gaps and overlapping's are unavoidable effects in a plywood which is a highly manual labor oriented product. No two panels of plywood are ever alike. Thus-not the same-but again-what do I know.

#120 76 days ago

Maybe they should have used Norwegian Wood.

#121 76 days ago
Quoted from Manic:

So you were amazed that a Roadhouse Strat had a spring under the whammy? Hmm I just figured the one you had when you were younger had lost the spring before you got it.

I don't remember if I was amazed or not, I just always tell people not to lose it.

#122 76 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Again with all due respect-I disagree. Plywood has way too many variables to be the 'same' or consistent. You can tell me wood species are produced the same way since 1940-sorry but I disagree. Try finding decent Redwood today to build a deck.
I can look at Bally/Williams playfields and notice very little core gap-again very dense substrate. Both Core gaps and overlapping's are unavoidable effects in a plywood which is a highly manual labor oriented product. No two panels of plywood are ever alike. Thus-not the same-but again-what do I know.

Could some of that observable difference relate to 25+ years of additional drying?

It just seems like, given the changes in clear coats used over time, plus variability in game lighting which makes a huge difference in how noticeable and photographable dimples are, there may not be a need to look much further for a cause.

Since we're talking dimples, I remember people saying that TNA used a sweet new dimple-resistant clear. Anyone taken a look at one that's been on-route for a year or so now and able to report back?

#123 76 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Again with all due respect-I disagree. Plywood has way too many variables to be the 'same' or consistent. You can tell me wood species are produced the same way since 1940-sorry but I disagree. Try finding decent Redwood today to build a deck.

You can disagree all you want if it makes you feel nice inside.

But there is a big difference between redwood that is 2000 years old and Rock Maple that is grown like a crop, and harvested after it produces less sap.

North America has tons of cheap Rock Maple, because it is a byproduct of the syrup industry.

That's why you get bowling lanes, guitar necks, theater stages, basketball courts all inexpensively made from maple......it's hard and cheap, just like my old boyfriend.

#124 76 days ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Here’s mine after a few weeks...haters will say it’s photoshopped.
[quoted image]

I received my Gold in early December. Probably has around 350 plays. My playfield looks the same.

#125 76 days ago

Not even one round (game) completed....

download (resized).jpg
#126 76 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

it's hard and cheap, just like my old boyfriend.

200.gif
#127 76 days ago

Is dry plywood harder than green plywood?

#128 76 days ago
Quoted from Manic:

Yeah you gotta love dimple discussions... like politics and religion nobody really ever changes their mind This one actually looks a little worse than my TWD... and you can buy me at least a couple drinks (for calling me an old-timer). These days I'm just *old*.
This was a few weeks old too at the time... but somewhat more understandable:
[quoted image]

Play your fucking games and quit bitching.

#129 76 days ago

The best thing about Pinside is that EVERYONE IS AN EXPERT ON EVERYTHING! LOL

#130 76 days ago
Quoted from jj44114:

Is dry plywood harder than green plywood?

Maple plywood has to have all 5 layers at 9% humidity for the glue to stick when they press it.

So it's obviously not "green" when they made it.

But You notice that many playfields are sealed on on the backside, that way they do not take in more moisture from the rear, and warp.

#131 76 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Maple plywood has to have all 5 layers at 9% humidity

Yes so many variables here-Was it kiln dried or was it naturally cured before pressing? Was the Rock Maple old growth or new growth? Was the glue formula mixed properly by Joe Blow that day at work? Was the plywood pressed properly avoiding major core gaps? Trying to compare consistency over the decades with plywood seems like a lost cause. There are also several grades of Rock Maple and most manufacturers tend to choose the lesser for cost purposes.

#132 76 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

There are also several grades of Rock Maple and most manufacturers tend to choose the lesser for cost purposes.

"Lumber Core" plywood will have the high grade maple on the faces (for appearance and screenability), and the lower grade maple as the cores.

The face of the plywood is Grade A , no patches or large knots allowed (because it has to be silkscreened).

The backside can be Grade 2, because you do not need a pristine surface for artwork.

If you were buying plywood to make a playfield, you would spec: Rock Maple, Lumber Core, Grade A-2

#133 76 days ago

This reminds me of an old commercial...

Pinside Dimple threads... now with scrubbing bubbles!

“Where we do all the work...”

“...So you don’t have Toooooooo....!!!”

#134 76 days ago

vid1900, isn’t there a nomenclature for marine grade though which calls for waterproof or water resistant glue and no voids? Seems to me I remembered something about no voids or a void ratio being part of the callout when I went looking for a whitewood blank for a prototype like 20 years ago? My memory isn't what it used to be.

#135 76 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

vid1900, isn’t there a nomenclature for marine grade though which calls for waterproof or water resistant glue and no voids?

Correct, Marine Plywood is void free and made with waterproof glue.

#136 76 days ago

A question. I am in the Auto Body Repair field. At the Body Shops where I work the clear is put in an "oven" to cure and harden. Is that done with the Playfields now?

Because when I work on an "oven" hardened clear coated vehicle it is very difficult for me to "dimple" it with my knock down tools. When I work on one done by a cheaper shop that did not "oven" cure it, then I can easily dimple the clear.

#137 76 days ago
Quoted from hailrazer:

A question. I am in the Auto Body Repair field. At the Body Shops where I work the clear is put in an "oven" to cure and harden. Is that done with the Playfields now?
Because when I work on an "oven" hardened clear coated vehicle it is very difficult for me to "dimple" it with my knock down tools. When I work on one done by a cheaper shop that did not "oven" cure it, then I can easily dimple the clear.

No oven curing on Playfields.

#138 76 days ago
Quoted from hailrazer:

A question. I am in the Auto Body Repair field. At the Body Shops where I work the clear is put in an "oven" to cure and harden. Is that done with the Playfields now?
Because when I work on an "oven" hardened clear coated vehicle it is very difficult for me to "dimple" it with my knock down tools. When I work on one done by a cheaper shop that did not "oven" cure it, then I can easily dimple the clear.

You can speed up the 2PAC cure with an inferred lamp.

Some of the clears now cure with UV light instead of IR. You can sand those 1 minute after your spray.

I've only done a few playfields with UV cure clear. Once I have some of those installed and tested, I'll do a thread about it.

I fixed a few guitars with the UV clear, and it seems very durable with no blushing where it touched the existing finish.

12
#139 76 days ago

Some pictures I took during my visit to the Silver Ball Museum tonight.

23D6C999-C9DF-4E62-B57A-4260A8038E3D (resized).jpeg4645DA9A-2F55-48E0-8994-75A7465E3264 (resized).jpegA5679FFF-6D83-4C77-BE69-BA472832BF41 (resized).jpeg
#140 76 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can speed up the 2PAC cure with an inferred lamp.
Some of the clears now cure with UV light instead of IR. You can sand those 1 minute after your spray.
I've only done a few playfields with UV cure clear. Once I have some of those installed and tested, I'll do a thread about it.
I fixed a few guitars with the UV clear, and it seems very durable with no blushing where it touched the existing finish.

Yea my son paints bumpers and small panels on car lots. He cures with UV. Not as good as oven cured. All UV cured panles easily dimple with my knock down tools.

Oh well , probably to much work to try to oven cure playfields.

#141 76 days ago
Quoted from hailrazer:

Oh well , probably to much work to try to oven cure playfields.

I'd worry that the IR heat would make the inserts move compared to the wood.

UV only takes seconds.

#142 76 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd worry that the IR heat would make the inserts move compared to the wood.
UV only takes seconds.

Yea, I'm pretty sure that would be a problem.

#143 76 days ago
Quoted from jp1985:

Some pictures I took during my visit to the Silver Ball Museum tonight.

What am I looking for?

#144 76 days ago
Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:

What am I looking for?

Any dimples in the inserts.

#145 76 days ago
Quoted from jp1985:

Some pictures I took during my visit to the Silver Ball Museum tonight.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I don't even see dimples on their cheeks.... That looks brand new to me.

#146 76 days ago

I'm confused. Are these two different machines? One looks beat to hell, the other pristine?

#147 76 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

I'm confused. Are these two different machines? One looks beat to hell, the other pristine?

This may have been a bigger hoax than the moon landing!

#148 76 days ago
Quoted from jp1985:Some pictures I took during my visit to the Silver Ball Museum tonight.

But did you go to the.....

Quoted from Vdrums:

….low traffic area hidden upstairs in a corner....

???

#149 76 days ago

Yes it was on the second level away from 95% of the machines which were below. I was about to walk out the door figuring the machine had been removed but then decided to go upstairs in case they had any other pins and it was indeed in a low traffic area. See in pic, most pins are below 4-5 are up stairs.

28706675-9DDF-465E-B269-7C381A3F3FE4 (resized).jpeg
#150 76 days ago
Quoted from jp1985:

Yes it was on the second level away from 95% of the machines which were below. I was about to walk out the door figuring the machine had been removed but then decided to go upstairs in case they had any other pins and it was indeed in a low traffic area. See in pic, most pins are below 4-5 are up stairs.
[quoted image]

Hmmm....something fishy going on here.

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