yup, seems to be the norm nowadays

That probably looks a lot worse than it is because of the heavy reflection from overhead that's being refracted to all hell, but yikes. What's the ball cannoning and airballing off of to create those dents on a single-level game? Is it in localised areas?

Edit: NVM, I can see it's near the spinning disc. That'll certainly do it, especially during multiball.

Wait for it... "It'll even out over time", "All wood is the same" etcetc... such BS. I've had my MM for 22 years and watched it go from tiny shallow dimples to now a shiny but wavy sort of delicate texture. Never anything like these new PF's - and to think I worried about the minor dimpling my MM showed way back then..lol. I have older Stern's also (LOTR,TSPP) that also have only the most shallow of indentations.
My TWD, however, looks like the surface of the moon in comparison (or "lumpy clay" as Rare hero eloquently states)... these will NOT "smooth out" over time but it's such a great game I can live with it.

Stern (or whomever is making these PF's) is simply buying the cheapest, greenest and most unseasoned wood they can... hence the softness. Saves a few bucks.

Cue vid to show up here and trundle out the same old pics he found on the Internet of TOM's outlanes, etc. I have a TOM and it can throw the ball all the way back over the flippers so I would indeed expect to find some deeper dimpling there.

And to be fair right after I bought the MM I returned a CV because it DID have an obviously soft PF. Rare back in the day but it happens. Divots so deep from day one that the guy at Betson's (that I sorta knew) actually gave me my money back. I reported it on rgp and nobody believed you could get your money back. Instead of hearing the part about the PF I got pummeled about getting a refund.

The good 'ole days indeed

It worked out for the best as CV went on closeout for $2100 and I snagged one that had the typically hard PF. Still have it in the same spot.

On the spectrum of Stern playfields of the last 8 years that's actually not that bad. I'd say it's comfortably in the middle of the pack. Terrible, but what are you gonna do? Stern's march to cut visible and invisible costs continues...

On my modern Stern games (now down to only one) the ball(s) jumps off the playfield more than my JJP's, William's, and of ofcourse, my EM. I think it is the stronger/snappy-er flippers. Also stand up targets really make a ball bounce off the playfield. Funny how Beatles had this with all the drop targets.

Thought the reflected light was an insert, oops

I think that they don't allow enough drying time, The clear coated playfields are way to fresh to be installed then sold.

That's not dimpling, it's cratering.

Hey just imagine in a couple hundred million years the moon craters will eventually even out with more asteroid hits

Moon Craters.jpg

lol ^^^^^^^

That really looks like water droplets on the playfield glass.

Certainly looks that way in the first pic.

I try to stay positive as I love modern Stern's but the cost cutting does get super annoying.

I had to access the LCD window by taking 4 screws out. 2 already just burred and had to go in the bin. Guessing metal is too soft. Had to buy replacements.

Not a biggie but indicative of non stop cost cutting, which does make sense as a business, but as a consumer, it's just more noticeable than ever.

Improved artwork and code are great camouflage though.

Please highlight one insert that's dimpling in those photos.

I think the Diamond Edition has the better playfield....LOL....It's crazy. You should see how many dimples are on my GB.

Stern playfields definitely dimple a lot more than CGC, JJP and AP.

Argh you’re right! Got confused by the reflection of the light.

I am tearing down my TOM as we speak, when I took off the entry ramp I exposes an area of the playfield that almost never gets hit by the ball...what did I find?!?...these "dimples" are just as deep as the one claimed to only be on softer newer playfields...im with team Vid on this one...

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My Tron LE, Avatar LE and LOTR are virtually dimple free so is my Houdini however, my Star Trek LE playfield looks like someone walked on it wearing golf shoes. I remember being told on this site how "normal" it was...I have a Munsters LE on the way...I guess it will suffer the same fate.

It seems to vary a lot playfield to playfield. My TWD LE, virtually dimple free, Star Trek LE is a dimple landmine. My Medieval Madness LE & So far Monster Bash LE virtually dimple free, but Attack from Mars LE is a dimple land mine. I think it just depends on how lucky you get with the plywood. Softer top layer vs Harder top layer because wood does vary.

Guys, I'm starting my own pinball company (three of them actually, you can never have enough!), and I'm looking to cut some corners by buying cheap, soft wood.

Can you guys please point me to where I can find these cheaper, softer trees? How does one go about cutting this particular corner? Are these trees grown in china? Or perhaps a lab in Bengladesh?

Also, one of my companies will be a "luxury pinball company," - kind of a Fyre Festival of pinball.

Can you guys please point me out to the expensive, harder trees so I can spend more money on a tougher, dimple-proof wood tp sell to the trust fund crowd? These are artisan trees that are hand-grown and cared for only by the most experienced, expensive tree farmers to ensure maximum hardness.

Thanks!

Also, how will this affect my BOM?!

We can rebuild these playfields,...we have the technology.

gFEyX6.gif

I know the "WOOD CAN'T BE SOFTER! / IT'S YOUR IMAGINATION" argument, but that game DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A FRIGGIN' RAMP OR SCOOP!

Regardless, it looks like shit.

I'm curious to see better lit and clearer pictures if you can get them. No matter what your stance on whether PF dimpling is normal or not, if a game truly looks like this, it is certainly OK to let the manufacturer know that it does look like this. It basically looks like there's water on the glass, especially in the first picture. I've never been a NIB buyer, but if this is what $8K gets you these days (assuming it's a Gold) I'm not going to jump in any time soon.

They said hard wood huh huhhuh

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Probably comes down to drying time. Taking longer costs more $$$$

'The traditional rule-of-thumb for air-drying lumber is to allow one year of drying time per inch of wood thickness; this adage obviously only takes a few of the aforementioned variables into account, but it's at least a rough starting point in understanding the time investment required in order to properly air-dry ...'

Is this Chris Franchi's game,you know the one the overhead pipe burst on?

IMG_0019 (resized).PNG

I'm glad you are still around Manic, this discussion has been active as long as I've been involved in pinball. Over a decade ago someone talking about it provided this quote.

"Yeah but are they clearcoated so thick and so shiny that the dimples that all PF's get wink at you like little distracting stars?? "

mm.jpg

Here you go my friend: https://www.timberproducts.com/blog/hardwood-plywood-series-the-drying-equation

Just find a supplier that cuts corners during this procedure and you'll get what you're looking for... softer wood sold to your fledgling company on the cheap!

Loved your post though... made me chuckle. Puts things in perspective

Let's all calm down a bit... It also has WATER on the playfield glass. (First pic).

This post is fake news/click bait to the extreme and everyone fell for it, myself included.

You will need more convincing shots than this to trick someone with a degree in photography design.

You can clearly see the reflection of the BG in the top of this shot which proves it was taken with the PF glass on. Why would someone do that? Yeah, exactly. It was to trick the viewer in to thinking those reflections are on the PF, and not on the PF glass. Or, it was unintentional and taken out of context. BUSTED!

And yes, the 2nd pic has the PF glass on the machine as well...

People sure do get all worked up about some fake shit posted on a pinball forum.

Screen Shot 2019-02-05 at 12.35.15 PM (resized).png

I’ve had my gold since the first week they shipped and looks nothing like that.

I will add that as soon as I saw the first couple air balls off the four targets in the middle I made a custom airball protector. Zero air balls since and no major dimpling. Stern is making their own air ball mod but is taking forever to make them available.

I think the owner is beating the playfield with chains at night. Hoping there will be a seawitch under all that rainbow puke paint.

I don't doubt it Brad... the thicker clear does show the problem off nicely. But considering I had the same issue with a NIB WMS I doubt if it is the main issue. If the thickness added to it you'd see some kind of marks even on the inserts.

But I gotta ask... is that piece of pinball poetry attributable to myself? I don't keep a posting compendium around like you do

Yeah that water drop looks like where my original CV dropped the balls off the ramp for multiball. Still the rest of the pic looks suspiciously like my TWD Pr.

Yes, I was quoting you, even without a Usenet reader, it is easy to find some topics. I don't debate playfields, like people, they each seem to be their own. And I figured I would add a picture before Vid.

Now will you come out to Expo so if not dinner, I can at least buy you a drink old-timer!

We received our Gold in early December. It probably has around 325 plays. After reading this post I took the glass off and examined the playfield very closely. So far not a scratch or noticeable blemish anywhere on the playfield. We have waxed it twice and will change the balls soon.

Yeah you gotta love dimple discussions... like politics and religion nobody really ever changes their mind This one actually looks a little worse than my TWD... and you can buy me at least a couple drinks (for calling me an old-timer). These days I'm just *old*.

This was a few weeks old too at the time... but somewhat more understandable:
bm66 (resized).png

I'm going to have to come over there and confiscate your Roland drum kit for "deepfaking" your PS friends. Shame on you

It's true, my TRON:LE had some minor dimpling but nothing like the craters you see these days.

My DI:LE also has dimpling, but not to the extreme like that BM66.

Steel ball 1 Wood 0

Stern or their playfield manfuacter changed something with either the wood, clear coat or clear coat process at some point within the last 3-5 years as many of their latest playfields have wagyu steak level marbling.

All pinball playfields made out of wood dimple but the latest Sterns appear to dimple more severely which makes it more noticeable.

Even this guy is surprised!
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Ahhh shit....This again.

If the moon surface was mostly the same density and constantly hit by meteors of identical size and shape traveling at mostly the same velocity that would be true.

It's not, so your statement is a strawman. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Can you post a link to the back dimples from above?

I still think you guys are all nuts.

I play pinball pretty much every day all over the place on all makes of games and I never notice dimpling.

Post any macro close up photo of anything and it's gonna look terrible. Try it on your face some time.

I think it's fair to think people are "all nuts" for obsessing about this issue.

What's not debatable is the newer PF's dimple more easily than older games. Recently picked up a gorgeous TRON LE with ~1000 plays. The PF has far fewer dimples than my SWLE with ~150 plays. My DILE also has a lot of dimpling.

I don't obsess over dimples or notice them much, but it's clear that PF's aren't as durable as they use to be.

I tried it. You're right!

LeviTerrible (resized).png

What... how can a "slow" game with only one level possibility have a dimple? Can't be the wood...