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(Topic ID: 166724)

Light lit when it shouldn't be...


By crujones4life

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 46 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by crujones4life
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#1 4 years ago

Here is a copy of my post from the Maverick Club Thread...
OK guys. Weird possible issue here. The other day right before I finally made it to the Poker Championship I noticed that the second ball lock lite in the left orbit was lit solid but 1st and 3rd lites were not lit. When I locked a ball it locked ball 1 like it should even though 2nd ball lock lite was lit solid. So essentially game functioned correctly even though that lite was lit. I thought it was a weird fluke until today when it happened again. Again I was close to starting Poker Championship and that second ball lock lite in left orbit was lit solid. And again the game still locked balls correctly even though that lite was lit. So has anyone else ever experienced this? If not how would I troubleshoot this? So weird that it only happened twice far into the game right before Poker Championship. Any thoughts/comments are most appreciated as this kind of stuff drives me crazy.

So...any ideas on the cause here? Light is lit when it shouldn't be but the feature associated with the lite functions correctly...

#2 4 years ago

Probably a broken transistor.

Try this :

Goto single lamp test and test the light one by one.
If more than 1 lamp lights up then there is a broken transistor

#3 4 years ago

Thanks! I'll try that and see what happens.

#4 4 years ago

In a single lamp test..only one light was lit at a time and what was lit matched the DMD. So that looks good. One thing I did notice for whatever it's worth is that when checking the rows and columns of lights during the test for one (I forget if it was row or column) when lock 2 light was lit all 5 feature lights and Poker Championship light were also lit. Those lights are all lit right before and during the Poker Championship which is when I noticed lock 2 light lit during the game...

#5 4 years ago

Any other ideas?

1 month later
#7 4 years ago

Bad diode?

#8 4 years ago

If the diode was bad wouldn't it always be acting up and not just under this specific circumstance?

#9 4 years ago

Check all the diodes connected in that row and column, couldn't hurt.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

If the diode was bad wouldn't it always be acting up and not just under this specific circumstance?

Actually the opposite is true, it will only act up under certain circumstances but will always work correctly alone.

#11 4 years ago

Ahhhh gotcha. I'll check it out. Thanks!

#12 4 years ago

I'd be interested to see what you do find out.

2 months later
#13 3 years ago

So the light in question is on a light board. You know a little pcb that holds 555s. Are there diodes on these boards? I don't see any.

#14 3 years ago

Are the diodes on the mpu?

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Lysurgeon:

Are the diodes on the mpu?

Good question...I dunno. I will report back.

3 years later
#16 5 months ago

3 years later...time to figure this out. I tested all the diodes in the row and column that lock 2 light is in and all test 650 to 720.

Lock 2 light immediately lights when Poker Championship starts (Poker Championship light comes on).

When the Poker Championship light stops flashing then lock 2 light immediately turns off. (It then stays lit for remainder of game except during the 30 seconds a mode is active).

Could Poker Championship light diode be bad even though it tests at 719? Other diodes were near this number.

In test mode. Single lamp test works perfectly. Lock 2 light does not light up when Poker Championship is lit.

Columns and rows light as they should in test mode.

During game play Poker Championship lights in addition to every other light in that column (except 21 when lit). They all should be lit except lock 2 light (and 21 when lit may or may not be lit...doesn't matter).

lysurgeon
Pin_Guy

20200525_022247 (resized).jpg

#17 5 months ago

I replaced diodes associated with Poker Championship light and lock 2 light. No change.

#18 5 months ago

If anyone can help me out i would be much obliged.

Screenshot_20200526-010944_Office Mobile (resized).jpg

Screenshot_20200526-011405_Office Mobile (resized).jpg
#19 5 months ago

Any ideas at all? You don't even have to know that your right...any suggestions please. I don't know what to do.

#20 5 months ago

Well I pulled the cpu. I tested every transistor and diode on the cpu in the circuit for the lamp matrix. Everything looks good.

When that lock 2 light was lit tonight I tried unplugging the other lamps in the column and the lock 2 light stayed lit.

#21 5 months ago

I don't see any "lock 2" lights in the matrix.
What is the lamp number I'm looking for?

Ahhh... I spoke too soon.
It's the second Joker, lamp 19.

#22 5 months ago

See if you can replace the pia at 11D.
The strange thing is that both lamp 18 and lamp 19 signal comes from two different inverters, 12F and 11F (7406).
Otherwise I would see the inverter is bad.

#23 5 months ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

See if you can replace the pia at 11D.
The strange thing is that both lamp 18 and lamp 19 signal comes from two different inverters, 12F and 11F (7406).
Otherwise I would see the inverter is bad.

I will look into this. Thanks!

#24 5 months ago

With the help of the amazing Chris Hibler I was able to determine the issue lies somewhere with the playfield wiring and not on the CPU. So what is the best way to go about finding the issue? A bad diode is possible but I cannot locate one. What other issues could there be that allow for a light to light when it shouldn't but only in a very specific circumstance?

#25 4 months ago

Pinched wires?

#26 4 months ago

Gonna look real good tonight...Thanks!

#27 4 months ago

I may be way off base here, But I wonder if it is doing what the game ROMs are telling it to do. Maybe they are corrupt. Seeing as it seems only happen during game play.

#28 4 months ago
Quoted from grumppy:

I may be way off base here, But I wonder if it is doing what the game ROMs are telling it to do. Maybe they are corrupt. Seeing as it seems only happen during game play.

So maybe bad roms? I will keep that in mind if I can't get this resolved. Thanks for chiming in!

1 week later
#29 4 months ago

I'm voting that a shorted lamp diode has been missed on that light board, or on the "21" lamp which is on the same column.... could be other lamp diodes causing it than just the Lock 2 and PC inserts.

Here is a video on Matrix and Diodes that helped me alot to understand these wierd problems. It is a Switch Matrix video but the principle is the same just one is an input the other is an output. Among the most useful 10 minutes of you tube I have ever watched! Lol

Go to lamp tests, get yourself a photocopy or a snapshot of the matrix to doodle on and mark down all wierd associations in Single Lamp Test (when there should only ever be one CPU lamp lit at any one time). The map you create will tell you some story and where to look and test. Draw an all encompasing loop/circle around lamps that are lit together. Colour code for different lamp tests if it helps. You should find some indicators in the odd behaviour.

Hope this helps.

**Also maybe give this a go: http://pinballmatrix.com/

Also note that to expose some lamp matrix issues you may well need to use the "Rows Test" and "Columns Test", so that you can lite all lamps simultaneously in a given column or row. Unfortunately the game won't let you light full columns an rows together, but row and column tests is better information than only single lamps.

#30 4 months ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

So maybe bad roms? I will keep that in mind if I can't get this resolved. Thanks for chiming in!

Tried a new ROM...problem remains.

#31 4 months ago

I will add that once the Lock 2 light was lit solid...I removed every single bulb from rows 2 and 3 and column 3 and that Lock 2 light stayed lit...

#32 4 months ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

See if you can replace the pia at 11D.
The strange thing is that both lamp 18 and lamp 19 signal comes from two different inverters, 12F and 11F (7406).
Otherwise I would see the inverter is bad.

So what does the lamp PIA do exactly? Where can I buy a replacement? Can you explain what the inverter does? Thanks!

#33 4 months ago

The PIA is the communicator between the CPU and the outgoing signals.
See it as a decoder for the data and address signals coming from the CPU.

An inverter inverts the signal from the input to the output.
Say a high signal comes in, the corresponding output goes low.

Replacements are available at the regular parts shops.
Mouser, Marco Specialties, Great Planes Electronics, you name it.....

#34 4 months ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

The PIA is the communicator between the CPU and the outgoing signals.
See it as a decoder for the data and address signals coming from the CPU.
An inverter inverts the signal from the input to the output.
Say a high signal comes in, the corresponding output goes low.
Replacements are available at the regular parts shops.
Mouser, Marco Specialties, Great Planes Electronics, you name it.....

Thank you!

1 week later
#35 4 months ago

Well it is 100% a board issue. I used a light matrix tester so the controlled playfield lights were not connected during testing. The led for the problem light lit solid when it shouldn't just like it does when playfield lights are plugged in. At this point I am just buying a new board. Don't want to waste anymore time swapping chips and crossing my fingers. Thanks everyone!

#36 4 months ago

Update...

Installed new ROM...no change

Bought light matrix tester...playfield connectors CN6 and CN7 (light matrix) disconnected...light matrix tester connected to CN6 and CN7...no change...so I am thinking well the light matrix is disconnected from the MPU...had to be a board problem

Got new board today (MPU 004)...no change...how can that be? What else is connected to the MPU that can be causing my issue?

#37 4 months ago

I wonder if it is a bug in the code.

#38 4 months ago
Quoted from grumppy:

I wonder if it is a bug in the code.

This is what I originally thought. But another pinsider has posted a video of his Maverick working just fine...I don't even know what to try next...it's driving me crazy. If I didn't love Maverick I would sell it to be rid of the issue. Can the main processing chip be causing this? It's the only part besides the new ROM that was on the old MPU.

#39 4 months ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Can the main processing chip be causing this

Nope.
Do you have the same game ROM version as in the video in the Maverick club?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#40 4 months ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Nope.
Do you have the same game ROM version as in the video in the Maverick club?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Excellent question. I just asked. I will report back.

#41 4 months ago

Well he has the same Rom revisions as me. CPU 4.04 and Display 4.01.

#42 4 months ago

Can you snap a good photo of the socket and wiring on that lamp?

Sounds like a short or something. Or just mis-wired somehow.

-Hans

#43 4 months ago

Got it figured out! It is a software bug! Only had to spend hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours to figure that out but hey...that's pinball! I guess because so few people ever make it to the Poker Championship and those that do get there so rarely it largely went unnoticed.

#44 4 months ago

How do you know that it's a software bug? I thought you said someone running the same ROM as you has video of everything working just fine.
It appears that quite a few people on this forum have offered you information on how to solve this problem, probably wasting as much time as you say you have wasted.
I don't understand why you ask for help, then ignore the response.

#45 4 months ago
Quoted from FilthyRich:

How do you know that it's a software bug? I thought you said someone running the same ROM as you has video of everything working just fine.
It appears that quite a few people on this forum have offered you information on how to solve this problem, probably wasting as much time as you say you have wasted.
I don't understand why you ask for help, then ignore the response.

I replicated the state of the game like the video that was posted to help me...ball 1 locked and locks 2 and 3 flashing. The lock 2 light did not light solid when it shouldn't...just like the video. Then another person posted that he got the same results as me when no lock lights were lit. Lock 2 light lit solid when poker championship starts flashing. So it is a software bug after all. Not surprised it hasn't been discussed before as it is near impossible to reach the Poker Championship. At some point someone mentioned i may have a bad rom...and I do but so does everyone else. Believe me I didn't ignore anyone and appreciate all the help I get on Pinside.

#46 4 months ago
Quoted from grumppy:

I wonder if it is a bug in the code.

Yes indeed!

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