(Topic ID: 169812)

Lexan Playfield Protector install and review

By rotordave

7 years ago


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There are 545 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 11.
#401 5 years ago
Quoted from rkahr:

I'm not sure what (if any) advantage the punches introduce compared to how you are tackling the work.

A little more research turned up this old thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/proper-way-to-drill-a-hole-in-petg-plastics

Follow the link in the thread for special plastic cutting bits to see a potential disadvantage to drilling - chipping the material. The drill bit seller advocates for their product but the thread points out punching to avoid risks of drilling the material. My plastic showed up in the mail today so I'm suddenly motivated to start building my pattern.

-Rob
-Visit http://www.kahr.us to get my Daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit

#402 5 years ago
Quoted from rkahr:

A little more research turned up this old thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/proper-way-to-drill-a-hole-in-petg-plastics
Follow the link in the thread for special plastic cutting bits to see a potential disadvantage to drilling - chipping the material. The drill bit seller advocates for their product but the thread points out punching to avoid risks of drilling the material. My plastic showed up in the mail today so I'm suddenly motivated to start building my pattern.
-Rob
-Visit http://www.kahr.us to get my Daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit

That page only mentions acrylic, which I don't think vivak/pet-g is? I haven't had any trouble with the 30 holes I've drilled so far

#403 5 years ago

Punch is the way to go for no raised lip or deformity around the hole (see this thread from 2 years ago). Keep the punches sharpened. For large holes (such as clearance for pop bumper skirts), an adjustable fly cutter at slow speed works well.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/polycarbonate-playfield-protectors-suck-got-the-perfect-fix/page/2#post-3242505

#404 5 years ago

Spade bits can rip your work if not careful, but they cut fast. I did not have much luck with my Forstner bits but mine are cheap Harbor Freight bits.

I tried punching but was having trouble with the punches rolling the edge of the hole which required me to get the heat gun to flatten out the punched area.

My best luck was with spade bits and Dremel Tool rotary sandpaper sanding tools.

1 week later
#405 5 years ago

Has anyone tried to polish these after they became dull/scratched?

I love the product and hope to preserve how well it looks to the extent possible.

#406 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

Has anyone tried to polish these after they became dull/scratched?
I love the product and hope to preserve how well it looks to the extent possible.

My understanding is that they wont scratch unless you like, put a screw driver over them or something...

#407 5 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

My understanding is that they wont scratch unless you like, put a screw driver over them or something...

LOL, lexan vs steel, lexan loses every time.

#408 5 years ago
Quoted from Marvin:

LOL, lexan vs steel, lexan loses every time.

They are gonna scratch. If you don't want them to get scratched then don't play your pin, which is the exact opposite of what you bought a protector for. Mine are used and have been used quite heavily. I know they are scratched but I can't see the scratches when I am playing and my pins still look good. They don't have that melted candy shine like when they were new but they still look good.

I wax mine but don't know if you can polished them or not.

I sort of look at them like they are underwear. When my underwear, which protects my trousers, get "scratched" up enough I replace my underwear.

Look at it that way and enjoy playing your pins.

#409 5 years ago

I just installed one on the T2 that is going to the Houston Arcade Expo. I’ll provide feedback on how it does when the show is over

CF981F12-479F-4C25-989C-D6ADE599481C (resized).jpegCF981F12-479F-4C25-989C-D6ADE599481C (resized).jpegF5A6FA74-7326-4182-A39A-7A8464D9C14C (resized).jpegF5A6FA74-7326-4182-A39A-7A8464D9C14C (resized).jpeg
#410 5 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I sort of look at them like they are underwear. When my underwear, which protects my trousers, get "scratched" up enough I replace my underwear.

I’m not sure what you’re packing, but my underwear cost nowhere near $150.00

We have a machine on location that has a protector that looks quite scratched/cloudy. Perhaps I will try to polish it myself.

#411 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

I’m not sure what you’re packing, but my underwear cost nowhere near $150.00
We have a machine on location that has a protector that looks quite scratched/cloudy. Perhaps I will try to polish it myself.

Post pics. I dont like when people post stuff like this without evidence. Not saying youre lying, but IM less inclined to believe you without proof. Would appreciate it.

#412 5 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

Post pics. I dont like when people post stuff like this without evidence. Not saying youre lying, but IM less inclined to believe you without proof. Would appreciate it.

Best I could do with an iPhone. I’m not a photographer.

1704C08B-1ABA-492A-B469-AE97B0543400 (resized).jpeg1704C08B-1ABA-492A-B469-AE97B0543400 (resized).jpeg23C2FBF7-EF72-42B8-B6EF-84B34360A7D3 (resized).jpeg23C2FBF7-EF72-42B8-B6EF-84B34360A7D3 (resized).jpeg98E445ED-0A4D-405C-8E4A-2F08C1CFBAEE (resized).jpeg98E445ED-0A4D-405C-8E4A-2F08C1CFBAEE (resized).jpeg
#413 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

Best I could do with an iPhone. I’m not a photographer.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I have been in business before and understand that profits can be thin and expenses keep rolling. I won't be caviler towards your finances.

Your protector is scratched up. Fairly well.

Has your Fathom taken in a lot of coin since you put the protector on?

Has the take slowed down any at all?

If so, do you think the take has gone down because the protector is scratched up?

If you are still taking in coins, then why worry about it? It is at a point where it could not get much worse.

If I were inclined to play a pin, I would not let a few scratches stop me. If the scratches effected ball movement in a deleterious way I would not feed any more money but just looking at scratches would not keep me away.

So, if it is a location pin, and it is making money, and the protector is doing it job of protecting your play field why mess with success?

#414 5 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have been in business before and understand that profits can be thin and expenses keep rolling. I won't be caviler towards your finances.
Your protector is scratched up. Fairly well.
Has your Fathom taken in a lot of coin since you put the protector on?
Has the take slowed down any at all?
If so, do you think the take has gone down because the protector is scratched up?
If you are still taking in coins, then why worry about it? It is at a point where it could not get much worse.
If I were inclined to play a pin, I would not let a few scratches stop me. If the scratches effected ball movement in a deleterious way I would not feed any more money but just looking at scratches would not keep me away.
So, if it is a location pin, and it is making money, and the protector is doing it job of protecting your play field why mess with success?

You misunderstand me. The Fathom is not mine, just an example of how the appearance of these protectors can deteriorate over time.

I was merely asking if anyone had any experience with preserving the smooth/glossy appearance.

#415 5 years ago

Wonder if lexan can be flame polished like acrylic.
I wouldn't do this while it's in the game... but if it's super clean; a flame polish might work like with ramps.

#416 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

You misunderstand me. The Fathom is not mine, just an example of how the appearance of these protectors can deteriorate over time.
I was merely asking if anyone had any experience with preserving the smooth/glossy appearance.

how long has it been up there, age?

I'd have to look at mine, but I'm pretty sure none of mine are even close to that bad. Any idea the number of games on that protector... maybe I can find one of my games with roughly the same amount to compare. Then again maybe they do, I usually don't look at the protector from the side with light shining directly on it.

#417 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

Best I could do with an iPhone. I’m not a photographer.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I'd be thankful the protector took that damage and not the playfield.

I wonder what the balls look like on that game, pretty nasty I'm guessing.

#418 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

I’m not sure what you’re packing, but my underwear cost nowhere near $150.00
We have a machine on location that has a protector that looks quite scratched/cloudy. Perhaps I will try to polish it myself.

Why waste your time polishing it? Go buy an .020 or .030 sheet of polycarbonate/Lexan/Macrolon for $20-$30. Then use the old scratched one as a tracing pattern. Trace out a new one. Get some tools and cut it to fit. .020 thick poly cuts very easy with a pair of cheap scissors.

This is my Seawitch with the protector I made for it two years ago. It has seen hundreds of games in two years. Is it shiny like new. No. But still does not look bad.

IMG_8604 (resized).JPGIMG_8604 (resized).JPG

This pic with the sloppy cut shows that there is a protector there.

IMG_8605 (resized).JPGIMG_8605 (resized).JPG

#419 5 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Why waste your time polishing it? Go buy an .020 or .030 sheet of polycarbonate/Lexan/Macrolon for $20-$30. Then use the old scratched one as a tracing pattern. Trace out a new one. Get some tools and cut it to fit. .020 thick poly cuts very easy with a pair of cheap scissors.
This is my Seawitch with the protector I made for it two years ago. It has seen hundreds of games in two years. Is it shiny like new. No. But still does not look bad.
[quoted image]
This pic with the sloppy cut shows that there is a protector there.
[quoted image]

That to me sounds like more work than polishing it. My question is if it is possible to polish them.

#420 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

That to me sounds like more work than polishing it. My question is if it is possible to polish them.

Google searching " can polycarbonate be polished" brings this. So, I guess you can.

https://www.google.com/search?q=can+polycarbonate+be+polished&oq=can+polycarbonate+be+polished&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.12294j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

#421 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

That to me sounds like more work than polishing it. My question is if it is possible to polish them.

It’s too soft and thin IMO.

These will start to show wear over time. I’d guesstimate 600-1000 plays based on my experience with it. It’s not a forever solution... but it does help significantly.

#422 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

That to me sounds like more work than polishing it. My question is if it is possible to polish them.

Buy a new sheet. Use the current as a tracing pattern and cut a new one. Then try polishing the current one. If it works, you have a backup for use later. If not, no big deal, just install the new one. Then report back on what you found out

#423 5 years ago

The description at Bay Area Amusements shows the older .75mm thickness. Is this just a dated description, or are they selling the older protectors? Anyone order from them recently?

I ask because their shipping is $19 vs. $50 from Germany.

#424 5 years ago
Quoted from Hop-Pac:

Buy a new sheet. Use the current as a tracing pattern and cut a new one. Then try polishing the current one. If it works, you have a backup for use later. If not, no big deal, just install the new one. Then report back on what you found out

When mine gets to the point where I’m ready to replace it, I definitely will try it.

#425 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

We have a machine on location that has a protector that looks quite scratched/cloudy. Perhaps I will try to polish it myself.

Quoted from alveolus:

When mine gets to the point where I’m ready to replace it, I definitely will try it.

I thought you were already at that point. Especially with the Fathom pics you put up.

I didn't know this was a fire drill.

#426 5 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I thought you were already at that point. Especially with the Fathom pics you put up.
I didn't know this was a fire drill.

I don’t understand why you seem so confrontational. As I stated the Fathom is not mine, so I’m not inclined to lay down the $150 for a new set of underwear.

Since I fear polishing it might make it worse, I am going to leave that one as-is.

I will just wait until the wear on the protector on my machine that I just installed gets bad enough to experiment on it.

#427 5 years ago

zacaj , sudsy7 , cottonm4 ,

Thanks for the responses a few weeks back. I completed my DIY for Alien Poker. Anyone who wants details on my effort can check it out here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-made-a-playfield-protector-self-evaulation#post-4623128

-Rob
-Visit http://www.kahr.us to get my Daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit

1 week later
#428 5 years ago

Installed in BH. Smooth and easy process. Some slight trimming in the black hole entrance and for some reason, one of the lane guide holes was missing.

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1 week later
#429 5 years ago
Quoted from protectors:

The price is 100€ which is 112$ (today). We ship worldwide. https://www.playfield-protectors.com

We are working on it - will take some time, but we also love not only DMDs but also early solid states and electromechanical beauties.
Today we added Black Jack, Space Invaders, Pharaoh and Wizard!.

Please put Skylab and Air Aces to the wishlist !

2 weeks later
#430 5 years ago

I’m planning on doing this with a .02 petg Walmart special sheet.

Do you just lay it on and the posts hold it down, when you’re done?

Any playfield protection notes before placement?

Do you just keep waxing the protector for maintenance?

#431 5 years ago
Quoted from fissionch1ps:

Do you just lay it on and the posts hold it down, when you’re done?

If you use incandescents, the heat will make the protector expand and raise up in the middle. Most are designed with ~0.1" gap around everything to prevent this. LEDs might help, haven't tried it yet.

Quoted from fissionch1ps:

Any playfield protection notes before placement?

Vacuum

#432 5 years ago
Quoted from fissionch1ps:

I’m planning on doing this with a .02 petg Walmart special sheet.
Do you just lay it on and the posts hold it down, when you’re done?
Any playfield protection notes before placement?
Do you just keep waxing the protector for maintenance?

they are designed to float - but you want a secure enough fit so it doesn't move (and rub). Putting it under some post or guide at strategic places may help that if you cut it right. I think they normally don't do that to allow for playfield variations.

You want the PF very clean of any debris before installing (and the plastic will be static'y wanting to attract everything) to avoid stuff under it that can rub.

#433 5 years ago
Quoted from fissionch1ps:

I’m planning on doing this with a .02 petg Walmart special sheet.
Do you just lay it on and the posts hold it down, when you’re done?
Any playfield protection notes before placement?
Do you just keep waxing the protector for maintenance?

No. You just don't lay it down and hold it with the posts. You need to make a paper pattern. And then transfer paper pattern to the sheet of petg. I assume you are doing this on your Flight 2000. Yes? No?

If this if for F2K, you will want to make the 3 posts up above your pop caps your anchor points. At no other points on the play field will you want the protector to have contact.

Or you could make the two posts behind the #4 and #5 drop targets your anchor points for a more central location for locking the protector down.

You can either make the 3 posts your lockdown points or you can make #4and #5 drop targets your lock points, but not both.

Before placement: As others have said, Vacuum. Get a blow gun and compressor if you have one and blow it down. And vacuum some more.

I wax mine with out problems and the ball will play faster.

image-8 (resized).jpgimage-8 (resized).jpg

#434 5 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

No. You just don't lay it down and hold it with the posts. You need to make a paper pattern. And then transfer paper pattern to the sheet of petg. I assume you are doing this on your Flight 2000. Yes? No?
If this if for F2K, you will want to make the 3 posts up above your pop caps your anchor points. At no other points on the play field will you want the protector to have contact.
Or you could make the two posts behind the #4 and #5 drop targets your anchor points for a more central location for locking the protector down.
You can either make the 3 posts your lockdown points or you can make #4and #5 drop targets your lock points, but not both.
Before placement: As others have said, Vacuum. Get a blow gun and compressor if you have one and blow it down. And vacuum some more.
I wax mine with out problems and the ball will play faster.

Thanks for the solid advice. Yes, it’s for the F2K I’m refurbing. I’ll use the 3 posts on the top. I’m about 1/2 done leveling cupped inserts as well. How well does the protector compensate for cupping?

#435 5 years ago
Quoted from fissionch1ps:

Thanks for the solid advice. Yes, it’s for the F2K I’m refurbing. I’ll use the 3 posts on the top. I’m about 1/2 done leveling cupped inserts as well. How well does the protector compensate for cupping?

Quite well. Actually, the insert could be missing and a protector will make it playable.

#436 5 years ago
Quoted from fissionch1ps:

I’m planning on doing this with a .02 petg Walmart special sheet.
Do you just lay it on and the posts hold it down, when you’re done?
Any playfield protection notes before placement?
Do you just keep waxing the protector for maintenance?

fissionch1ps - I created one and posted an evaluation of my efforts. The thread accumulated quite a bit of good advice. You can check it out here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-made-a-playfield-protector-self-evaulation

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit

#437 5 years ago

I received mine this week and installed them on Eight Ball and Capt. Fantastic. Both seem to perform fine for me. I'm not a real good player, so I'm probably easier to please. The ball seems to be more fluid; smoother rolling, quieter and just as fast, I think.

I have an NOS playfield for my Night Rider EM that I am going to install one of these on, as well as an EBD that I'm in the middle of doing an overlay on. Will post on those when they are installed.

#438 5 years ago
Quoted from rkahr:

fissionch1ps - I created one and posted an evaluation of my efforts. The thread accumulated quite a bit of good advice. You can check it out here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-made-a-playfield-protector-self-evaulation
-Rob

Thanks! Solid thread. So I’ve got the petg (.02) and a rough paper template. My game plan is to touch up paint in a couple spots (mainly keylining around inserts) Thoroughly clean the play field, wax it (3 coats). Lay on the finished protector. Wax the protector (3 coats). And game on.

Question on cleaning. There’s a lot of old wax. I read Vids thread where he recommends the naphtha stuff. Is this safe? I don’t want to lose paint. Any precautions from your experiences?

32FBD7A8-B4D9-46BB-8773-818DB6D28A5C (resized).jpeg32FBD7A8-B4D9-46BB-8773-818DB6D28A5C (resized).jpeg
#439 5 years ago
Quoted from fissionch1ps:

Question on cleaning. There’s a lot of old wax. I read Vids thread where he recommends the naphtha stuff. Is this safe? I don’t want to lose paint. Any precautions from your experiences?

Naptha is safe for paint in the amounts you'd be talking about for cleaning, and has the bonus of not being absorbed by the wood in the playfield, which means it doesn't cause it to swell or "raise the grain" on older playfields that don't have a watertight layer of clear on them. The trick is that it's basically lamp and lighter fuel; use only with adequate ventilation.

#440 5 years ago
Quoted from fissionch1ps:

Thanks! Solid thread. So I’ve got the petg (.02) and a rough paper template. My game plan is to touch up paint in a couple spots (mainly keylining around inserts) Thoroughly clean the play field, wax it (3 coats). Lay on the finished protector. Wax the protector (3 coats). And game on.
Question on cleaning. There’s a lot of old wax. I read Vids thread where he recommends the naphtha stuff. Is this safe? I don’t want to lose paint. Any precautions from your experiences?[quoted image]

Naptha generally seems to be the gentlest cleaner

#441 5 years ago
Quoted from fissionch1ps:

Thanks! Solid thread. So I’ve got the petg (.02) and a rough paper template. My game plan is to touch up paint in a couple spots (mainly keylining around inserts) Thoroughly clean the play field, wax it (3 coats). Lay on the finished protector. Wax the protector (3 coats). And game on.
Question on cleaning. There’s a lot of old wax. I read Vids thread where he recommends the naphtha stuff. Is this safe? I don’t want to lose paint. Any precautions from your experiences?[quoted image]

Nice template.

What you will want to do when you are cutting your petg is to leave the web of material that lies between your shooter lane and play field. Then remove your inner shooter lane rail. Position your petg on your play field and lock it into position either with some screws or tape. You will need to drill some holes to match the holes for the inner shooter lane rail you removed. Then screw the inner rail back into position and trace a line around the inner rail. This will give you a good straight line cut to get the petg located into the shooter lane with no guess work.

While this is no big deal, I would recommend leaving the petg in the shooter lane as long as possible for now and then cutting of later. After you have your protector located and locked dowen cut the last thing you will do is follow the undercut in the shooter lane to where it comes flush with the shooter lane surface. Drill a small 1/16" hole at that point. Then trace two lines down towards the shooter rod. This will give you a nice, straight, centered V-cut that will let the ball launch is if the protector is not even there. Then you can cut it as short as you would like.

If there parts that locate in the "S" curves of the ball lock you might to lay your petg down here as well, place the parts on top and trace out your cut lines, then remove the parts and make your cuts.

1 month later
#442 5 years ago

So I was about to install another 15 playfield protectors. Been quite happy with them. But in taking a good look at my Firepower and Paragon which we installed about 9 months ago we are seeing this (white dots and streaks in photos) what am I looking at ? Mold ? Something else crystallizing ? Looks like Mold to me. None of my other machines set up in the same place and for the same amount of time have any of this. Advice appreciated. Don’t want to install if I’m just going to grow mold. Am I doing something wrong on install ?

1841C788-2C1E-4C07-AE3D-A7D7A7757C44 (resized).png1841C788-2C1E-4C07-AE3D-A7D7A7757C44 (resized).pngD8298963-9136-4BB5-B034-3D886FC3323F (resized).pngD8298963-9136-4BB5-B034-3D886FC3323F (resized).pngE7046AA7-FA20-4C23-81AD-6B38CD97F294 (resized).pngE7046AA7-FA20-4C23-81AD-6B38CD97F294 (resized).png
#443 5 years ago

Does it smell like mold?

#444 5 years ago

I have had a protector down on my Firepower for over a year, I just had a look & saw a similar thing on mine with the spots - not too much, I hadn't noticed this before.

Looking up close it looks like an accumulation of some sort of particals. I live in an extremly dry climate & have never had any mould on anything inside where the games are, I don't think it's mould (in my case anyway), I certainly hope it's not mould, that would be very dissapointing if it is.

Would be great to get some other opinions as well.

P1050314 (resized).JPGP1050314 (resized).JPG

#445 5 years ago
Quoted from Joydivision:

I have had a protector down on my Firepower for over a year, I just had a look & saw a similar thing on mine with the spots - not too much, I hadn't noticed this before.
Looking up close it looks like an accumulation of some sort of particals. I live in an extremly dry climate & have never had any mould on anything inside where the games are, I don't think it's mould (in my case anyway), I certainly hope it's not mould, that would be very dissapointing if it is.
Would be great to get some other opinions as well.
[quoted image]

Well that’s reassuring that it is probably not mold. But it’s also disappointing if this is what to expect from the product after a year.

#446 5 years ago
Quoted from Joydivision:

I have had a protector down on my Firepower for over a year, I just had a look & saw a similar thing on mine with the spots - not too much, I hadn't noticed this before.
Looking up close it looks like an accumulation of some sort of particals. I live in an extremly dry climate & have never had any mould on anything inside where the games are, I don't think it's mould (in my case anyway), I certainly hope it's not mould, that would be very dissapointing if it is.
Would be great to get some other opinions as well.
[quoted image]

Your just gonna have to take it off to see what it is.

#447 5 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Your just gonna have to take it off to see what it is.

Yes, I think I will do that & report back.

#448 5 years ago

Can be mold if you used wax on your playfield before.

#449 5 years ago
Quoted from aeneas:

Can be mold if you used wax on your playfield before.

I didn't use any wax at all before I installed mine but I did polish it with Novus 2 as I had used a magic eraser prior, if it is mould I wonder if Novus 2 could cause mould? (Australian spelling of mold).

#450 5 years ago
Quoted from Joydivision:

I didn't use any wax at all before I installed mine but I did polish it with Novus 2 as I had used a magic eraser prior, if it is mould I wonder if Novus 2 could cause mould? (Australian spelling of mold).

We used simple green on the playfield to clean prior to install. The fact that two separate people got this I doubt is coincidental. I will deinstall and culture it to see if it is indeed mold.

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Bob's Pinball Stuff
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From: $ 9.00
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KAHR.US Circuits
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