(Topic ID: 131206)

Let's try and keep Pinside friendly!


By robin

4 years ago



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  • 523 posts
  • 161 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by The_Dude_Abides
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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    There are 523 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 11.
    #401 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    Difference is Chevy doesn't take $70,000 and not deliver a car. Imagine those forums if people got screwed over.

    Indeed. I'm just speculating here, but probably 90% of the negativity on the site is contained in the Jpop, Skit-B, and JJP threads.

    Jpop and Skit-B imploded and took a boatload of pinsiders' money with them. JJP is still afloat and hopefully here to stay, but the repeated delays make many people nervous. I know how it is. I was in on a WOZ LE preorder for 2.5 years before selling my spot after still not receiving a game after all that time. The wait was stressful at times and made pinball a lot less fun for me. So I sympathize with the people in these various situations.

    The common thread between the three is that a lot of people have a lot of money on the line. When you mess with peoples' bank accounts emotions run high and things can spiral downward quickly.

    15
    #402 4 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Let's cut to the chase...do you really think it's okay to call a woman's vagina a "clam"?

    If a woman calls my Penis a "Cock", "Prick" or a "Hammer" is that OK????

    Of course it is.

    There have been pet names for genitals for 100000000's of years.

    The hamburger chain Hooters got its name from a Steve Martin skit where he tries to find several non-offensive terms for a woman's breasts.

    It's only when puritans (I won't point any fingers here) get crazy in public that we have terms for Chicken like "Dark Meat" and "Light Meat" because calling them Legs, breasts or Thighs is way too dirty.

    #403 4 years ago

    Dear Everyone,

    XOXOXO

    G

    #404 4 years ago
    Quoted from jarjarisgod:

    The common thread between the three is that a lot of people have a lot of money on the line. When you mess with peoples' bank accounts emotions run high and things can spiral downward quickly.

    You are correct that a large chunk of the negativity is on the threads where someone took someone elses $thousands, but that has nothing to do with boob pics.

    Quoted from mcluvin:

    hat is the demographic breakdown for active users on this site? I'll be shocked if it isn't at least 99% male. If you really want to monetize the site, do you cater to the 99% or piss on them to grow the 1%? I say figure out a way to grow the 1% while keeping the other 99% happy. Take a room full of guys shooting the shi*, bustin balls, and and talking about guy stuff like pinball. Tell them they need to tone it down, be nice, and make their conversations family friendly. Do you think the majority are going to view that positively or negatively? You can hope for the former all you want, but you can expect the latter from most.

    In my leagues the composition is more like 88% male, which correlates well with attendance I see at expos. You can't really equate Pinside to a room full of guys because it is a public forum, so if Pinside is actually 99% male that's a good indicator of a possible gender issue on Pinside, because that ratio is not carrying over from the actual in-person audience composition. It is part of what Robin is trying to address.

    #405 4 years ago
    Quoted from jfesler:

    For the record, you *can* complain - but just not in an open forum where it becomes a wound infected with hostility. Post it in the moderator forum. Multiple moderators will see it. The moderator that took the initial action will get peer reviewed. And, you can always PM Robin himself to escalate the issue, if you think the moderation team is wrong.
    It isn't quite as open a city council meeting, or a multi stakeholder conference, or any other such venues were most conversations are public (even the ugly ones). But it isn't a dead end; at least not until you exhaust even the Robin approach.

    But no one can see the mod forum posts. It's understandable that no one can post there outside of the op and mods, but for no one to be able to see the discussions or to up/down vote the discussions leaves the mods and robin with no feedback as to the will of the people who the decisions affect.

    #407 4 years ago

    I guess I'll have to backpedal on "broad" - maybe it's a regional thing. I like "woman" - timeless, unambiguous.

    #408 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    You are correct that a large chunk of the negativity is on the threads where someone took someone elses $thousands, but that has nothing to do with boob pics.

    Well... I agree that some pics do cross the line, but the tasteful lady pics do help to take the edge off when things get especially tense in those threads. Heck, there has even been some man candy thrown in at times for the ladies too.

    The Jpop thread was such a flaming pile that not even boob pics could bring it out of the smoldering ruins of whatever happened. I don't think anybody even bothered to try to post one in that hell.

    #409 4 years ago
    Quoted from Northernhuskie2:

    But no one can see the mod forum posts. It's understandable that no one can post there outside of the op and mods, but for no one to be able to see the discussions or to up/down vote the discussions leaves the mods and robin with no feedback as to the will of the people who the decisions affect.

    The will of the people don't matter. This isn't a democracy. It's a benevolent dictatorship.

    You don't let users dictate forum policy. That's FORUM101, if you're serious about running a real community.

    Frankly, the reality is Robin is gonna do what he thinks is right. And if you don't like it you can leave. Letting the public read and vote on moderator discussions would be toxic. I run a moderator team larger than Pinside's, and I would never, ever, want their private discussions on moderation to be public. Would be a disaster. It would be no different for Pinside to attempt it either in my view.

    -8
    #410 4 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I guess I'll have to backpedal on "broad" - maybe it's a regional thing. I like "woman" - timeless, unambiguous.

    I like sluts, it all works out

    -1
    #411 4 years ago

    what if there is a section of Pinside geared towards the younger crowd (since there is a concern for family viewing)? Topics covering more family friendly themed pins, family oriented places to play, some type of grassroots family tournaments? If we want the forum to be more family friendly.....I think there is a need for more things geared towards the family....just spit balling here

    #412 4 years ago

    gerry, please go back to RGP.

    -1
    #413 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You need downvoting because sometimes someone makes an authoritative tech post that is completely wrong.
    Without downvoting, someone might read only that far into the thread and take the posting as gospel.

    Ok, you are using it in an encoded way to indicate you have replied to the post. Ok. But, just for the sake of friendly discussion, if that tech's post is on page 3 and your corrective response is on page 388 (not uncommon here) because you went ahead and posted your corrective reply because you yourself didn't want to wade through all of those pages to see if someone else already caught the tech's error(s), well I bet a reader on page 3 who "might" notice your downvote may not "hear" your implied message that somewhere in those next 385 pages is your useful correction. I suggest it's better (and doable) for the webmaster to have a clickable place in each comment to pull up a thread of replies to said comment so we do not have to rely on the uncertainty of creative users who informally use the downvote for that purpose. Then, one less reason for that downvote feature.

    Quoted from pezpunk:

    yeah, i also think it's useful for expressing disagreement without making an actual reply post, which is often redundant if a lot of people are disagreeing with someone, or just starts a back and forth argument.

    Well, ok. But, me, if someone else has posted and made my point, I don't need to weigh in to.. do what.. just to make people see that I had the same point? I guess I do not see who would ever care that you voted to avoid an argument. Why not just do nothing? It would just be my ego making me redundantly vote, not a belief that anybody cared to see it. Also, if I had more to say, a downvote would be inadequate and I would simply post what I had to say. Like I'm doing now. Have you noticed I did not downvote your comments? Downvoting is pointless to me and apparently induces ill will to the nice but susceptible folks among us. I guess I just don't see the upside of that.

    For those people reading this and who VOTE reduntantly (as you put it) in lieu of COMMENTING reduntantly, what drives you or anyone to feel you need to weigh in redundantly at all? Myself, I don't need a volume of yes or noes for anything I say here. I prefer intellectual discussion. As far as offering my opinions, is my opinion so shaky and volatile that it really matters how many downvotes I get? No. Do I really lookup each downvote to see whose anonymous username-and-photo disagreed? That's silly. So, I don't care how people vote and that's why I can't grasp why other people care about that as a meaningful substitute for text. And if someone doesn't want to type out a comment that's already been typed out, well who needs to read a duplicate comment anyway, am I right? Duplicate comments and all voting are all extraneous to me. I see voting as useless stuff that causes problems. But I already said that, didn't I? LOL.

    #414 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Every 4th thread has random boob pics.

    Really? Either the Moderators are doing an awesome job or I am just missing something because I've not seen this.

    I'm really disappointed

    #415 4 years ago

    Btw, who opens an account 3 days ago just to post in this and the Jpop thread?

    #416 4 years ago

    The thin skins win.

    -12
    #417 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    The will of the people don't matter. This isn't a democracy. It's a benevolent dictatorship.
    You don't let users dictate forum policy. That's FORUM101, if you're serious about running a real community.
    Frankly, the reality is Robin is gonna do what he thinks is right. And if you don't like it you can leave. Letting the public read and vote on moderator discussions would be toxic. I run a moderator team larger than Pinside's, and I would never, ever, want their private discussions on moderation to be public. Would be a disaster. It would be no different for Pinside to attempt it either in my view.

    Ahh yes, ignore the very people you want to be in your site, great plan there. If you keep doing things your "customers" don't agree with you run out of "customers". People here bitch about lack of transparency from pin companies, there have been many complaints about the lack of transparency from the mods here. Letting people see, but not comment on, the mod forum posts will actually let people see why decisions are made. Letting people use the vote system also provides feedback that might actually make this place better. Letting people see the mod feedback would also let the mods point people to answers/reasons for their actions on future actions, rather than having to go through the whole discussion again.

    11
    #418 4 years ago
    Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

    The thin skins win.

    There are plenty of people here who are, believe it or not, both not offended or worried by the stuff being addressed, and at the same time happy to see the tone steered in the way the site owners want. My skin is thick enough to cope with that. The thinnest skins really are starting to appear on the people who want to keep the bover boys club alive. Big tantrum if you ask me.

    #419 4 years ago
    Quoted from Northernhuskie2:

    Ahh yes, ignore the very people you want to be in your site, great plan there. If you keep doing things your "customers" don't agree with you run out of "customers". People here bitch about lack of transparency from pin companies, there have been many complaints about the lack of transparency from the mods here. Letting people see, but not comment on, the mod forum posts will actually let people see why decisions are made. Letting people use the vote system also provides feedback that might actually make this place better. Letting people see the mod feedback would also let the mods point people to answers/reasons for their actions on future actions, rather than having to go through the whole discussion again.

    Yes the people wanted in the site are those that open an account purely for the purpose of posting in this thread and the Jpop thread. Anything pinball you might want to talk about?

    #420 4 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    My skin is thick enough to cope with that.

    Obviously

    #421 4 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Yes the people wanted in the site are those that open an account purely for the purpose of posting in this thread and the Jpop thread. Anything pinball you might want to talk about?

    Bothering to join this place and being here are very different things. By the way in a thread about making this a friendly place your response showed such a friendly attitude, so gosh darn welcoming.

    #422 4 years ago
    Quoted from Northernhuskie2:

    Bothering to join this place and being here are very different things. By the way in a thread about making this a friendly place your response showed such a friendly attitude, so gosh darn welcoming.

    Welcome to pinside. Hope you enjoy your time here. Plenty of folks loving pinball and all things to do with it. If you have a look, for example, through my 1689 posts you'll find about 1675 of them devoted to pinball. That's about 99.2%. Most of the friendly folks around here would probably have a similar ratio. Great bunch!

    #423 4 years ago

    no boob pics.... ....has anyone been to check on Ted?

    Seems like a lot of drama coming from people who don't want/like drama, look at the hot threads, people like drama (whether they think they do or not), I thought PS had the right balance/direction going by not letting things get too out of hand anywhere/anytime, least not in my 2 years here. But I guess there are times when things get rocked one way or another tipping the balance accordingly and this is one of those times.......

    As for PG13.........all of todays PG13 "content" would have been R18 a few years ago, that is why I thought PS was already cool??? There is no way to stop minority and random DB'y without detrimental effects on the majority.

    All opinions are my own and do not constitute legal advice, seek your own advice independently if in doubt.

    #424 4 years ago
    Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:

    ...
    Seems like a lot of drama coming from people who don't want/like drama, look at the hot threads, people like drama (whether they think they do or not), ...

    ^^ that

    #425 4 years ago
    Quoted from labnip:

    i had to look up "verboten"

    10
    #426 4 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I'm actually more worried about robin's comments about making this a full time gig. What you do with a 'product' tends to have a heck of a lot more constraints than what you do with a 'hobby'. I wonder where that will go..

    More constraints? Possibly. Or more possibilities? I'l be honest with you, running Pinside as a hobby was not do-able anymore. It hasn't been for a while. So there really isn't a choice, unless you consider quitting Pinside a choice? Keeping the server running, fixing bugs, communicating with the mods, answering PMs, coding new features, deleting spams and scams. It's a lot of work. I'm not complaining, I love doing it. But my family probably will when I'm behind a laptop 60 hours a week with nothing to show for it and no dinner on the table.

    Quoted from jwilson:

    I think this whole thing could be summed up with "Don't be a jerk."

    Yeah that pretty much summarises the point I'm trying to bring across here. Or, as Wil Wheaton puts it: "don't be a dick!"

    #427 4 years ago

    Pinside is in great hands. Anyone running around talking about the sky falling because Pinside is going to be too restrictive is being a Chicken Little. Some people probably will leave. That's okay, it happens.

    If we're lucky the noise level will drop along with them.

    Managing a popular forum is a lot more work than people who've never done it realize. We're lucky to have Robin.

    #428 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Anyone running around talking about the sky falling because Pinside is going to be too restrictive is being a Chicken Little. Some people probably will leave.

    Even if the sky does fall and many valued Pinsiders leave, the "No Hot Pinball Chicks Rule" can always be lifted or modified.

    It's not like the rule is carved in stone.

    #429 4 years ago

    After reading nearly 9 full pages it seems pretty clear that many still don't get what Robin is trying for, he wants a site where people respect others opinions, and where when you post something you don't have to worry about being attacked or having your words twisted. That and a little less superfluous use of sexy/sexist pics and Pinside will be a much happier place.

    For the record, the latter doesn't bother me in the least, but I understand why it might concern others.

    #430 4 years ago

    Well there goes that promotion.

    #431 4 years ago
    Quoted from Northernhuskie2:

    Ahh yes, ignore the very people you want to be in your site, great plan there. If you keep doing things your "customers" don't agree with you run out of "customers". People here bitch about lack of transparency from pin companies, there have been many complaints about the lack of transparency from the mods here. Letting people see, but not comment on, the mod forum posts will actually let people see why decisions are made. Letting people use the vote system also provides feedback that might actually make this place better. Letting people see the mod feedback would also let the mods point people to answers/reasons for their actions on future actions, rather than having to go through the whole discussion again.

    You have a lot to say for a guy who joined Pinside three days ago. Why did you feel the need to create a second name or hide who you really are to comment?

    #432 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    Dude just stop. You've been sooooooo annoying recently. Hijacking every thread. Making your point 10x over. Robin is asking us to be nice and you can't get over yourself for one thread. Just stop!

    o_o

    *mind blown*

    The strides you have made are just insane.

    Genuinely, I am not trying to badger. I'm just totally amazed lately. Please don't let "the other guy" ever come back.

    #434 4 years ago

    Really guys? What kind of value does this add for anyone? What does it add to Pinside?

    #435 4 years ago

    This has probably gone as far as it will go !!
    2 points >>> (1). You will never EVER escape from contact with "bad apples" in this or any forum in human existence
    (2). Your best friend in all of this is just to IGNORE said "bad apples"
    I for one except the terms by which we all agreed to when we signed up and "mostly" stuck by that.

    -3
    #436 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    Dude just stop. You've been sooooooo annoying recently. Hijacking every thread. Making your point 10x over. Robin is asking us to be nice and you can't get over yourself for one thread. Just stop!

    Exhibit A: people making posts about people instead of the topic...

    #437 4 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    No Vid, you didn't quote my entire post. Let's cut to the chase...do you really think it's okay to call a woman's vagina a "clam"? Or even talk bout vaginas at all?

    I just read this and nearly pissed my pants laughing. I told my wife and she burst out laughing. A "clam" is a great word for a vagina. And here I had been stuck on "fish taco" for all these years. How archaic.

    Thanks for the morning laugh...and the fresh insight!

    -1
    #438 4 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    More constraints? Possibly. Or more possibilities? I'l be honest with you, running Pinside as a hobby was not do-able anymore. It hasn't been for a while. So there really isn't a choice, unless you consider quitting Pinside a choice? Keeping the server running, fixing bugs, communicating with the mods, answering PMs, coding new features, deleting spams and scams. It's a lot of work. I'm not complaining, I love doing it. But my family probably will when I'm behind a laptop 60 hours a week with nothing to show for it and no dinner on the table.

    I think there is a huge difference between simply trying to monetize something and making it your day job. I've been involved in this stuff for ~30 years and I can't think of many (or any names right now at 7:30 am ) who have quit their day-job for it. As staff on other sites, and as an admin, I'm familiar with the demands... but it takes a whole lot of "possibilities" to move from covering your utility costs to "comfortable wages" for a sustainable amount of time. Certainty jumping that gap will take far more changes than trying to instill a level of mutual respect between members. That's why it perked my ears...

    #439 4 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    You have a lot to say for a guy who joined Pinside three days ago. Why did you feel the need to create a second name or hide who you really are to comment?

    No this is my only account, as stated I finally felt like I wanted to say something. I haven't said much either.

    #440 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I just read this and nearly pissed my pants laughing. I told my wife and she burst out laughing. A "clam" is a great word for a vagina. And here I had been stuck on "fish taco" for all these years. How archaic.
    Thanks for the morning laugh...and the fresh insight!

    Back in the 90's it was often referred to as the bearded clam, but that's not so accurate anymore.

    11
    #441 4 years ago
    Quoted from Northernhuskie2:

    Back in the 90's it was often referred to as the bearded clam, but that's not so accurate anymore.

    Case and point for what Robin is trying to say here. Come on guys...really? This post was started to try convey Robin's desire to steer pinside back to a more family friendly place. Turning that topic somehow into a discussion of terminology for female anatomy is a prime example of what needs to change here.

    #442 4 years ago

    If THIS thread of all threads can't stay on the rails, just shows how much work it is going to take.

    #443 4 years ago

    Unbelievable.

    #444 4 years ago

    "Some men just want to see the world burn."

    #445 4 years ago

    Bottom line is that we are guests in Robin's house. If he asks us to remove our shoes before entering and not cuss, then out of respect that's what we need to do.

    #446 4 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Exhibit A: people making posts about people instead of the topic...

    Are you lost on an island man and have to post multiple times every 5 minutes to keep the island from blowing up?

    -3
    #447 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    Are you lost on an island man and have to post multiple times every 5 minutes to keep the island from blowing up?

    This coming from the guy with 3x the post ratio I have... please stop polluting the thread with this kind of BS.

    #448 4 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    This coming from the guy with 3x the post ratio I have... please stop polluting the thread with this kind of BS.

    Let's do this. Let's both stop posting in this thread and take robins advice to be more positive. I am done posting and challenge you not to post again too.

    #449 4 years ago

    I really applaud Robin for addressing this issue, and addressing forum posts under this topic. If people that read this forum don’t see the need for change, then they need to step back and take a look at what is going. Topics are pulled of course for the sole purpose of creating controversy and drama.

    Every forum you read is basically the same. It starts out fine, a trade of information, opinions, etc -Something constructive for everyone to use. Then, opinions creep in, which is OK, as long as those opinions are respected. The problem is that they are not. It becomes a game of posturing. Who’s right and who’s wrong, in a lot of cases. And it seems that those that are the loudest feel that’s how they will win. Shout down those that have a differing opinion.

    For whatever reason, when I read threads here, such as the JPop and JJP threads, they usually start with a sincere attempt to bring information to the readers, or, to get information from someone more knowledgeable. The threads get hi-jacked, and turn into whatever friggin’ reality TV show you want to name. Rudeness, and in your face commentary seems to suck people in, and you really need to fight the urge to jump into the fray. It’s really easy to be a hard ass from behind a computer screen. Sure, go ahead, say what you want, how you want, and offend as many people as you want. It’s not so easy to do face to face, because, quite frankly, face to face, you’re likely going to look like an ass doing it, and you know it. (Most uncivil thing I've written, if you've had a reaction to it, then you know what I mean. It was done for effect).

    I have read a few posts within this thread saying that behavior on this thread represents what pinball has been from an earlier beginning, that pinball has always been edgy, and adult oriented. We are talking about playing a game right? So, I do not know the average age demographic here, but I would say that it is a mostly adult male audience. I’m not so sure that the use of foul language, and posting of boob pictures and videos measures up to being adult about things. Seems more like what a 14 year old boy would do to make himself feel grown up. Look, I can swear, and, I have a copy of Playboy. Look at me.

    If you feel the urge to post pictures of boobs here, step out from behind the anonymity of the computer screen, and think about how your grandmother, mother, wife and/or daughter would feel about that. Tell any one of them face to face, that you are posting pictures of naked women on a public forum, and see their reaction, knowing their son, grandson, husband or father felt the need to do that to express themselves. To each their own, but I’m just trying to make a point.

    Some posters out there will probably feel that this move equates to censorship, and that something has been taken away from them, or is trying to be taken away from them, but really, I think it is just the site being steered towards civility. I don’t think that where it’s headed now is where it was ever intended to go.

    #450 4 years ago
    Quoted from jayhawkai:

    gerry, please go back to RGP.

    Ughh.... Really ?

    Funny how some people who I, and most everyone else like here,

    can reference the word Cock, or say F$%K

    in their post, without catching any crap..

    but there' s always a guy that busts my balls for it..

    the double standard alot of guys here seem to have

    is one of the reasons i push the envelope a bit sometimes ...

    i enjoy helping others here, tech, values, sending free parts to others, etc.

    i wish everybody could just get over themselves, let people be who they are

    within nornal 2015 current day standards..... not "1950" standards

    and most of these issues would be gone !

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