(Topic ID: 131206)

Let's try and keep Pinside friendly!


By robin

4 years ago



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  • 523 posts
  • 161 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by The_Dude_Abides
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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    #201 4 years ago
    Quoted from Flippermatt:

    I assume you mean H.S for Hyperscale and not P.S ?
    Pinball needs an ever increasing number of members and newbies. Not wannabe rulers and computer quarterbacks. When stepping in and slamtilting somebody's posting you deliberatley risk choking any further input to the hobby from a potential invaluable resource. The burners themselves were green once upon a time and knew zip about pinball.
    //Matt

    P S was for Pinside there.

    #202 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Agreed, Robin. But I think the mods have to start looking closely at who the trolls are and who the people are that really contribute to this site. I've been banned from threads for attacking trolls (usually the ones who just troll JJP threads). That's not really fair. I understand moderating is a wickedly tough job, and when I've had my wrist slapped, I shut up about it. But I just think that most of the people here are good people (albeit with a wicked sense of humor) who love pinball.
    If you guys started shutting down all the accounts that serve to make Pinside negative (i.e.: you should begin with accounts that start with "Crazy"), Pinside would be a much more positive and welcoming place.
    I still think some people around here need to get a sense of humor, though.

    Nothing about running this site is easy. But at least its still a lot of fun to do

    My mailbox is always open. Replies are not guaranteed (apologies if you don't get one) but I do read everything people send me and will act when I get signals about something or someone not working well for Pinside.

    Even better is using the Moderator Feedback forum to voice any concerns about a topic, a Pinsider, a post etc. It's much quicker because it doesn't just rely on me and my weird European time zone.

    And of course we also have our "report abuse" link under each post, use it when you think a single post is out of bounds! The moderators get all of these reports on their "moderator dashboard".

    As for humor. That's pretty subjective! Some people have an awful sense of humor but just don't know it themselves.

    #203 4 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I agree, but they'd have nothing to harp about if there was nothing to harp about. Because there is, I don't know what specifically Pinside can do about that.
    Ok... here's one suggestion.... add a forum rule for "your point has been made". Mods can thread eject people for repeating themselves. This would be an "anti-troll" tool.
    That rule would be heavy handed, but perhaps that is what is needed, because Pinside can't stop people from getting ripped off or games being delayed badly.

    maybe build in a posting algorithm that prevents people from posting more than X times per X posts. Something that automatically self limits blowups?

    The blow up threads (or portions of threads) tend to get fueled by emotions and the symptom is often LOTS of emotional posting in a short amount of time >> this often elicits more emotion and then BAM, shitnado ensues. Then you toss on that mods are not always around and obviously not monitoring everything posted (that would be impossible) so on pure luck of the mod currently online you will get a wide variety of responses or possibly no response at all. This results in often percieved favoritism in modding which can actually add more fuel to a fire and not less (I think the real desire of most modding is to merely calm down).

    The collector portion of this hobby has been hit hard with a large amount of crap lately. Large amounts of money stolen, major delays on games, defective dream games getting shipped. Regardless of where you sit on any of these things, they have been the undepinning of much of the general angst around here lately which has then manifested itself in often negative ways.

    I personally like to find the root cause and attack a solution from there. I am not sure what that solution is, but if you want to treat the symptom the make a posting limit algorithm and find out how to reward desired beahvior.

    Have mods embody the desired bahavior also and potentially the tides will change.

    #204 4 years ago

    How about some "troll policing"... like a feature that flags potential troll users by the number of people who have put them on ignore?

    So...

    1) This would motivate people to use the ignore user function more, because they are essentially flagging that user towards review/ban.

    2) The more ignored a user is, the less bickering that will happen

    3) If that user hits some sort of threshold, they get autobanned or something for "Behavior not becoming a Pinsider" or something. The community is determining this. It could be a powerful tool against trolls.

    #205 4 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    How about some "troll policing"... like a feature that flags potential troll users by the number of people who have put them on ignore?
    So...
    1) This would motivate people to use the ignore user function more, because they are essentially flagging that user towards review/ban.
    2) The more ignored a user is, the less bickering that will happen
    3) If that user hits some sort of threshold, they get autobanned or something for "Behavior not becoming a Pinsider" or something. The community is determining this. It could be a powerful tool against trolls.

    I get the motivation for this idea but in practice it turns the board into a perpetual drama factory. As I said earlier --

    Quoted from pezpunk:

    Yeah, I've been on a messageboard that had a public ignore list, and it was a total disaster of a feature that was eventually removed. The public ignore list transformed the ignore feature from being a way to not see someone's posts (intended to reduce drama and negativity) into a mechanism for alpha posters to bully / embarrass / publicly shame other posters. Also created tons of drama stemming directly from the ignore list itself.

    -1
    #206 4 years ago

    Yes and what's better the ban votes will remain anonymous as you can't see who else has ignored that person. The mass numbers will also prevent abuse.

    13
    #207 4 years ago

    Mob rule is not the solution, guys.

    #208 4 years ago
    Quoted from goingincirclez:

    Personally, I don't understand why those projects were legitimized with their own sub-forums and manufacturer statuses and archive entries before a single machine was actually sold with an invoiced bill of sale.

    Amen! People that criticize or even question the legitimacy of any pinball pipe dream project are immediately branded a "troll" on these forums. And all forms of monkey piling on those folks seems to be fair game. Conversely folks that join the cheer leading ranks for these projects are branded the heroes and are allowed to spew completely unsubstantiated pseudo-facts on said projects which, when left unchallenged, become justification for more folks to fall for the scam(s).

    When you have a community with seemingly endless disposable income I give you a community that is ripe for the picking. Consider the above two groups of people, only one of them can potentially cost folks thousands of dollars on a bad risk, the other might actually prevent that with their so called trolling or negativity...

    #209 4 years ago

    Speaking of "Humor"; I still see Planetary Pinball listed as a pinball machine manufacturer. Time to replace that error with "Chicago Gaming".

    #210 4 years ago

    The ignore monitor is a terrible idea.

    #211 4 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    I'm asking all of you to please try and help steer Pinside towards a more family friendly pinball site. Yes, I know we have topic drain and ignore and all that and it's awesome. But that doesn't mean that anything goes.
    Robin

    Robin, Unfortunately I don't see asking people to change making much of a difference. You're either going to have to charge a subscription fee to the site and/or have your mods start locking accounts for different amounts of time depending on the violation.

    I'm not 100% innocent but I'm trying to improve my behavior on here. There are a lot of folks who aren't/don't.

    #212 4 years ago

    Historically, pinball is not a family amusement. It has been and still is loaded with sexual innuendos (wnbjm) and images. Yet in comparison to modern video games (GTA and the like), it is really, really tame.

    Robin, I understand if you want to censor the off-topic random boob pics and whatnot, I agree that doesn't make sense on a pinball forum. But you cannot deny the seedy history associated with pinball. I think you're at a clash of demographics unfortunately, like trying to make a PG rated website to discuss R rated movies. The seedier side comes with the territory, as not everyone that is interested in pinball cares about being family-oriented.

    I don't see how you could possibly keep a pinball website mostly family appropriate without a lot of moderation unfortunately. I would like to see pinball and this website be a more inviting place though, from the outside in I can imagine it doesn't always look inviting. But again, its your website, you can do whatever you please with it. I love this place, and I enjoy helping people with tech questions here. But I also enjoy the adult discussions here, lots of varying opinions and colorful personalities with the commonality of love for pinball. It would stink to come here and not be able to engage in those conversations. Just my thoughts.

    #213 4 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    I get the motivation for this idea but in practice it turns the board into a perpetual drama factory. As I said earlier

    I wouldn't make it a public shaming list. It could be an internal review list for the mods. Pinsiders would have no idea how many hits someone has gotten.

    Anyhow, if that idea is no good that is fine, I'm just throwing out ideas.

    I do think asking people to "please be nice" is not enough though. A heavier tool will be needed.

    #214 4 years ago

    There seems to be 2 simultaneous discussions happening in this thread... what to do about booby pics/sexist posts, and what to do about negativity.

    2 different problems, 2 different solutions needed.

    -3
    #215 4 years ago

    How low can society go? Today this is considered offensive! What a shame...

    #216 4 years ago

    Good to see this change. Thanks Robin!

    #217 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    How low can society go? Today this is considered offensive! What a shame...
    363d05809ab0a5db5c57b7682aa1c8df.jpg

    Yeah nobody likes white socks

    -2
    #218 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    How low can society go? Today this is considered offensive! What a shame...
    363d05809ab0a5db5c57b7682aa1c8df.jpg

    Serious trolling, or seriously ignorant? I seriously cannot tell.

    #219 4 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    How low can society go? Today this is considered offensive! What a shame...

    Because it's a confederate flag, of course!

    More seriously, I understand why most threads should remain boobs-free. don't ban them completely, but contain them to specific threads. You know what to expect when opening a "Girls of Pinball" thread...

    #220 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Historically, pinball is not a family amusement. It has been and still is loaded with sexual innuendos (wnbjm) and images. Yet in comparison to modern video games (GTA and the like), it is really, really tame.
    Robin, I understand if you want to censor the off-topic random boob pics and whatnot, I agree that doesn't make sense on a pinball forum. But you cannot deny the seedy history associated with pinball. I think you're at a clash of demographics unfortunately, like trying to make a PG rated website to discuss R rated movies. The seedier side comes with the territory, as not everyone that is interested in pinball cares about being family-oriented.
    I don't see how you could possibly keep a pinball website mostly family appropriate without a lot of moderation unfortunately. I would like to see pinball and this website be a more inviting place though, from the outside in I can imagine it doesn't always look inviting. But again, its your website, you can do whatever you please with it. I love this place, and I enjoy helping people with tech questions here. But I also enjoy the adult discussions here, lots of varying opinions and colorful personalities with the commonality of love for pinball. It would stink to come here and not be able to engage in those conversations. Just my thoughts.

    One of the rare times I wish there was a multiple thumbs up.

    #221 4 years ago
    Quoted from presqueisle:

    Serious trolling, or seriously ignorant? I seriously cannot tell.

    Seriously?

    #222 4 years ago

    One of the other things I love about this site is the ball busting. That's always in danger of over-moderation only because the moderators think the subtext of the nasty comments is more serious than it actually is.

    Case in point: McCune and I used to be pretty vicious towards each other about WOZ (we still are in fact). But he sent me a PM once to bust me off-forum, and I've since found out he's one of the nicest guys here.

    The people that "get" this site are secure enough to take some busting and know that it's most likely coming from a good place. It took me a while to learn that, but once I did, now I just hang a target around my neck and say "Have at it!"

    Then there are the trolls who are just d-bags and are here to stir up s**t.

    22
    #223 4 years ago

    This is obviously your site put up with your money and time so you have the last word but I think all this PC shit and being deathly afraid to offend someone is ridiculous and to me it makes it boring and oppressive. People that know each other talk about things that aren't pinball and you cant walk around on eggshells worrying about offending someone, that just isn't the way things work. Not everyone will have the same views or opinions or like the same thing ant there is always someone who will not like what someone else does or be offended at what someone else thinks as funny. People should be adults and get over it.

    So, now Im sure I will be kicked off this thread for speaking my mind.

    #224 4 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    I think all this PC shit and being deathly afraid to offend someone is ridiculous and to me it makes it boring and oppressive.

    Love the no-bullsh*t talk from Texans

    Tend to agree...up to a point.
    You may call someone - including me - dumb, ignorant, a troll, a fat-assed French, etc... Fine with me.
    You start to post personal details about someone and his family, make threats... not good.

    #225 4 years ago

    Straw man argument. You'll be ok.

    #226 4 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Love the no-bullsh*t talk from Texans
    Tend to agree...up to a point.
    You may call someone - including me - dumb, ignorant, a troll, a fat-assed French, etc... Fine with me.
    You start to post personal details about someone and his family, make threats... not good.

    Well I agree with you there, dumbass. You said I could call you that. Making threats on a website is stupid. Anyone can be a badass on the internet.

    #227 4 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    You may call someone - including me - dumb, ignorant, a troll, a fat-assed French, etc...

    I LOVE the fat-assed French. Best...food...EVER... (And they're much friendlier to Americans than they're given credit for!)

    #228 4 years ago

    We could all just act our age... ..……......NAAAA... ................Joey

    #229 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    maybe build in a posting algorithm that prevents people from posting more than X times per X posts. Something that automatically self limits blowups?

    That particular solution happens to be no good when a guy like vid1900 is posting 10-parts to a lesson in a row, and does NOT want another guy posting in the middle of the chain.
    -mof

    #230 4 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Love the no-bullsh*t talk from Texans
    Tend to agree...up to a point.
    You may call someone - including me - dumb, ignorant, a troll, a fat-assed French, etc... Fine with me.

    But you can't do that here, it's not allowed.

    #231 4 years ago
    Quoted from Breaking_Dad:

    We could all just act our age... ..……......NAAAA... ................Joey

    People here are doing just that, that's what's being asked to stop.

    #232 4 years ago
    Quoted from Northernhuskie2:

    People here are doing just that, that's what's being asked to stop.

    No sir....I'm very sorry...having fun was not being asked to stop...now have yourself a very wonderful rest of your day................Joey

    #233 4 years ago
    Quoted from Breaking_Dad:

    No sir....I'm very sorry...having fun was not being asked to stop...now have yourself a very wonderful rest of your day................Joey

    When did the word fun appear in my comment? It was specifically about acting our ages.

    13
    #234 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Historically, pinball is not a family amusement. It has been and still is loaded with sexual innuendos (wnbjm) and images. Yet in comparison to modern video games (GTA and the like), it is really, really tame.

    Historically, women couldn't vote, segregation was practiced, and so on. Just because something was the norm or was practiced years ago, doesn't mean it should or has stayed that way. Pinball isn't a shady, backroom game any more that only attracts seedy hooligans. We can appreciate past artwork in the historical context in which it was created, but still make room for it in a friendly environment.

    I just attended NJGecko's pinball gathering, and it was indeed a very family-friendly event. There were 10-year-olds, 65-year-olds, and all ages in between. It was simply a fun gathering with people who also had an interest in pinball.

    Something doesn't have to be R or X-rated in order to have fun, and negativity doesn't make something fun.

    And that's the point of pinball (or any hobby), isn't it? To have fun and share your interest with others.

    #235 4 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I just attended NJGecko's pinball gathering, and it was indeed a very family-friendly event.

    Wait a second...who were you? I would have LOVED to meet you and to say thanks for helping me in the past. What were you wearing? Totally bummed now...

    #236 4 years ago

    Interesting that so many people say "pinball was historically not family friendly" and yet.... I'd be willing to bet most of those same people would say "Oh yeah, I got hooked on pinball as a kid / teen [and it was NOT on the Playboy machine]...."

    Certainly there are some racy themes out there... and may there always continue to be. But how may "adults only" arcades are there?

    By and large, the most popular games with the widest appeal are not the raciest or even riskiest. Consider the public arcades and other places where pins used to be, to attract the widest audience, to plant the seeds that resulted in probably 90% of current hobbyists: what level of behavior is generally expected in a public space? What normally gets you kicked out?

    Sure, emotions can boil over because we're only human... and as pointed out, there's been a lot of fuel of late. So it's understandable to a degree.... but just like how getting in a fight at the arcade would get you tossed, same rules should apply here. It's fine. You cool off, come back, and don't do it again.

    Here on this forum we're all presumed to be adults, and self-moderate our discussions accordingly with respectful decorum. In a thread about Playboy, Sexy Girl, T2-profanity mods, etc... maybe anything goes. A reasonable adult should know what to expect: You don't walk into a strip club to play Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball, so you don't click on a NSFW thread to whine about morality.

    But for the most part, pinball IS a family-friendly activity when it's done "right". The rest of the site should reflect that.

    I don't think what Robin is asking is unfair, unreasonable, or even all that difficult.

    #237 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Wait a second...who were you? I would have LOVED to meet you and to say thanks for helping me in the past. What were you wearing? Totally bummed now...

    We did meet--I think we convinced each other to have another hot dog at one point

    #238 4 years ago

    WAITAGODDAMNMINUTE!!! You were the guy across from me that came with the kosher guy who collects video games??? Aw, crap...you should have told me! Well, thanks for your help...next time let me know who you are on here. How did you know it was me?

    (Sorry for going off topic...)

    #239 4 years ago

    I like this. Pinside was an all around friendly place when I got started on it. A lot of negativity has taken over the forums. It used to be when someone started being rude, everyone would suggest going to rgp but now all the negativity has consumed us. The pictures are not offensive to me, but they are to others. So if they have to go to make everyone feel comfortable I am all for that. I am guilty of it in the past as well as being a jerk every now and again but it is too easy to get mixed up in the drama. I will do my best to not add to it from here on out.

    #240 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    WAITAGODDAMNMINUTE!!! You were the guy across from me that came with the kosher guy who collects video games??? Aw, crap...you should have told me! Well, thanks for your help...next time let me know who you are on here. How did you know it was me?
    (Sorry for going off topic...)

    No, I wasn't with the kosher guy, lol---PM incomming

    #241 4 years ago
    Quoted from goingincirclez:

    Interesting that so many people say "pinball was historically not family friendly" and yet.... I'd be willing to bet most of those same people would say "Oh yeah, I got hooked on pinball as a kid / teen [and it was NOT on the Playboy machine]...."
    Certainly there are some racy themes out there... and may there always continue to be. But how may "adults only" arcades are there?
    By and large, the most popular games with the widest appeal are not the raciest or even riskiest. Consider the public arcades and other places where pins used to be, to attract the widest audience, to plant the seeds that resulted in probably 90% of current hobbyists: what level of behavior is generally expected in a public space? What normally gets you kicked out?
    Sure, emotions can boil over because we're only human... and as pointed out, there's been a lot of fuel of late. So it's understandable to a degree.... but just like how getting in a fight at the arcade would get you tossed, same rules should apply here. It's fine. You cool off, come back, and don't do it again.
    Here on this forum we're all presumed to be adults, and self-moderate our discussions accordingly with respectful decorum. In a thread about Playboy, Sexy Girl, T2-profanity mods, etc... maybe anything goes. A reasonable adult should know what to expect: You don't walk into a strip club to play Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball, so you don't click on a NSFW thread to whine about morality.
    But for the most part, pinball IS a family-friendly activity when it's done "right". The rest of the site should reflect that.
    I don't think what Robin is asking is unfair, unreasonable, or even all that difficult.

    Your definition of arcade is skewed by youth most likely. It's not a matter of pins having been in adults only arcades historically. Pins were in bars and pool halls and bowling alleys,. These are places where in the 30 and 40s adults were at, not children. the arcade as you seem to be defining is is a much more recent invention than pins are. Going back further to the origins of pins (bahatelle) reveals the same adult consumers.

    #242 4 years ago
    Quoted from futurepinhead:

    I like this. Pinside was an all around friendly place when I got started on it. A lot of negativity has taken over the forums. It used to be when someone started being rude, everyone would suggest going to rgp but now all the negativity has consumed us. The pictures are not offensive to me, but they are to others. So if they have to go to make everyone feel comfortable I am all for that. I am guilty of it in the past as well as being a jerk every now and again but it is too easy to get mixed up in the drama. I will do my best to not add to it from here on out.

    My God, that isn't the way the world works. You don't take things away because it might offend one person. What about all the people it doesn't offend? Everything will offend someone at some point. People should be grown ups and get past it. Fuck, I think vibrater commercials on TV are offensive so by God lets ban all vibrater commercials. Or, I could just get over it. Unless it has the potential to do someone else harm get over it and yourselves.

    #243 4 years ago

    Everybody is fixating on the pics thing (Maybe because of Molly's thread?) but it seems like Robin is even more concerned about general civility, unlike the toxic dump that the jpop, & skitb threads devolved into.

    #244 4 years ago

    I think the j-pop and skit-b (and to a lesser extent JJP and PPS) situations are inevitably going to breed a ton of anger and negativity that will spill over into personal clashes moreso than in years prior. I think it's a cool idea to just sorta remind people to make a more conscious effort to make Pinside a nice and considerate and welcoming place.

    #245 4 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Historically, women couldn't vote, segregation was practiced, and so on. Just because something was the norm or was practiced years ago, doesn't mean it should or has stayed that way. Pinball isn't a shady, backroom game any more that only attracts seedy hooligans. We can appreciate past artwork in the historical context in which it was created, but still make room for it in a friendly environment.
    I just attended NJGecko's pinball gathering, and it was indeed a very family-friendly event. There were 10-year-olds, 65-year-olds, and all ages in between. It was simply a fun gathering with people who also had an interest in pinball.
    Something doesn't have to be R or X-rated in order to have fun, and negativity doesn't make something fun.
    And that's the point of pinball (or any hobby), isn't it? To have fun and share your interest with others.

    Touche. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm for the preservation of the sexual innuendos and imagery that pins have had. Yeah, they could change, but if it were up to me, I'd want to see even raunchier and more adult oriented games. That's just my opinion and personality though, not everyone has to agree. Python's game should have been made, imo.

    #246 4 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Fuck, I think vibrater commercials on TV are offensive so by God lets ban all vibrater commercials.

    I'm offended by your spelling of "vibrator".

    #247 4 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    I think vibrater commercials on TV are offensive so by God lets ban all vibrater commercials

    Wait, you have vibrator commercials on tv in TX?

    17
    #248 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    I'm offended by your spelling of "vibrator".

    That's just how things are spelled in Texas. Vibrater, patater, alligater, etc.

    #249 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    The people that "get" this site are secure enough to take some busting and know that it's most likely coming from a good place.

    Perfectly & eloquently stated!

    #250 4 years ago

    Well, I wasn't thinking of spelling at the time but my spell check says that that is correct because I didn't think it looked right . And yes, Trojan or whatever company that sells the his and hers lube has a vibrator commercial that is aired late at night. It was just an example and it really doesn't bother me but I do think that it is going to far. Some things are a little to personal for TV.

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