Quoted from Aurich:Fake slippery slopes are always trotted out as arguments when people don't care for something.
Yup. All slippery slopes are fake.
(Topic ID: 131206)
This topic is closed.
Robin, is it just a bug that I can not upload an avatar pic or is it that I have already had too many?
Birmingham, AL
Quoted from robin:If I wanted to strip every single f-bomb from Pinside I would have activated a word filter. In my opinion, such words have their place (like when you drain your f'in ball). And like you said, when not used to attack a person, it can quite often go unmoderated. I guess I'm just asking you to use it sensibly. Does that make sense?
As someone who has started a few threads to promote the female form, I will do my best to not post any tit pics. 
Robin, I understand and agree with what you are saying in regular threads, but in the "Off Topic Bar" shouldn't this be more relaxed? I think the fact that it's named "off topic bar" would lead me to believe that it's not family friendly. The thread that was closed earlier was posted in this section.
It has been suggested in the past that the off-topic threads don't appear on the front page summary to help keep things more family friendly.
Quoted from Northernhuskie2:Dogs are family friendly (usually), smoking is clearly not. Joe Camel is out, so is smoking dogs.
YOU'RE out.
Quoted from o-din:Perhaps. For the last week when trying to upload cigar dog as my Avatar, it says no image chosen.
In solidarity with my Pinside family (see how I worked the original topic in, Robin?), I'm changing my avatar to O-din's patented cigar-smoking dog until my friend can figure out how to get it back.
All hail O-din. 
Quoted from beelzeboob:I'm changing my Avatar to O-din's patented cigar-smoking dog
GLWT!
Alkmaar
WAIT A MINUTE!!!
You can't upload jpegs to change your avatar from My Pinside anymore.
BUG ALERT, ROBIN!!!
That's awesome that somebody in Holland and I were typing just about the same thing at the same time. Makes me want to eat some cheese from Alkmaar. 
Quoted from robin:Sounds like a bug. If you e-mail me the pic I can set it as your Avatar. I'm robin at pinside dot com.
It is here in this bug thread. Thanks!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-there-a-problem-uploading-pictures
Quoted from robin:If I get signals that some people do not feel welcome here anymore and when I'm actually getting annoyed by some of the posts here myself I think it's time to step in.
The people that didn't feel comfortable here have left ages ago. I'm not sure this is the best metric for whether Pinside is a welcoming place or not.
Quoted from robin:Let's not overreact here. If you are here to talk pinball (like 95% of our posters) then nothing will change. No one said discussing racy themed pins will be disallowed. You won't see me removing any of those games from our archive. That's ridiculous. When it comes to games like Sexy Girl I strongly feel pinball outweighs family friendliness.
Look, theres a big difference between discussing an 80's game with a "politically incorrect" theme choice (which is fine) and some of the really poor taste memes and gifs that I've seen being posted recently. I think Pinside is pretty liberal with what's allowed and what's not but some people have been crossing the line of what I find acceptable.
I can't think of any pics I've ever posted to Pinside that are of women or salacious material. I have no skin in that game, if you'll pardon the pun. My concern is, we as society, are becoming far too sensitive and deferral to any group that complains about something. And many times, the group complaining isn't even the group "offended", just well-to-doers trying to draw attention to themselves.
This is the reason Chris Rock doesn't perform at colleges anymore. Everything offends these hipsters.
Frankly, I'm tired of the negativity and disrespectful people that lurk here.
Honestly, one of the big reasons I sold my MetPro at the price I did is to start to retreat from this community more and more. Yeah, there's thread drains and ignore lists; I get it. There are also things like "taking it too far" or being a real off-putting jerk.
I am really getting that vibe more and more from a greater number of people here. There's a fair amount of keyboard warriors in this forum. When I am on this forum, I have a rule I live by: don't type anything you would not say to someone's face. I have genuinely tried to live by that, but some people here have honestly really tested my limits.
I came to this forum to learn technical knowledge and gain understanding of diagnosing machines, but honestly, that's about the last thing I have gained. My local Cincy-Dayton community has been amazing and taught me a LOT, and the sad thing is, I don't think I'd really be missing much here.
That sickens me. People shouldn't feel that way. Long standing members shouldn't have some "holier than thou" attitude just because you know more than another member. Whether it be technical knowledge, how to transport a machine, what new machines are coming out, how to dismantle a playfield, how to test a component to see if it is good or not, or anything else in this hobby - I know I have definitely felt disrespected, and here is my thoughts: if you don't have something constructive or helpful to say to assist someone new or someone that is learning for themselves, go pound sand.
I will give this community credit: I have bought and sold a lot of machines here, and I made sure I contributed donations to Pinside because Robin has given us something very special here. He has given us a hub for us to and enjoy sharing pinball knowledge and war stories. He has given us a place that helped me discover the entire Cincinnati-Dayton pinball community. He has given us a community where I have made some great friends and people I would never have met otherwise.
/rant off
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:My concern is, we as society, are becoming far too sensitive and deferral to any group that complains about something. And many times, the group complaining isn't even the group "offended", just well-to-doers trying to draw attention to themselves.
I feel the opposite actually. I think as a society we've become so selfish and self-centered that everything is about "me me me" and we've lost the ability to be empathetic or think outside our personal sphere.
There's more to functioning in a community that just worrying about your own space and likes and dislikes. If your host doesn't like weed then walk around the block before you fire up your joint. You can still get high, just no need to push it on them in their backyard where they're not comfortable.
To trot out the gay marriage example again (I'm very pro) it's like the people freaking out that if it's allowed it will somehow diminish their own marriage. How some other couple being happy would ruin your own personal relationship makes no sense except to those people who can only think about themselves.
Live and let live, and have a little respect. You can still look at hot babes all you like. Open a new browser window to look at tits instead of doing it here. Not a big deal. Not the end of having a good time with your fellow pinheads.
I used to care less, but now I can see the need for pinside the website to "grow up", along with all of pinball, that has seen its market expand every year recently.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:I can't think of any pics I've ever posted to Pinside that are of women or salacious material. I have no skin in that game, if you'll pardon the pun. My concern is, we as society, are becoming far too sensitive and deferral to any group that complains about something. And many times, the group complaining isn't even the group "offended", just well-to-doers trying to draw attention to themselves.
This is the reason Chris Rock doesn't perform at colleges anymore. Everything offends these hipsters.
I just called my doctor to have my prescription doubled...and I'm a little worried. I've never agreed with kirk more in my life. 
Quoted from Aurich:I feel the opposite actually. I think as a society we've become so selfish and self-centered that everything is about "me me me" and we've lost the ability to be empathetic or think outside our personal sphere.
The Left has certainly become that way.
Us folks in the middle feel like we have to walk on eggshells constantly these days.
Quoted from beelzeboob:I just called my doctor to have my prescription doubled...and I'm a little worried. I've never agreed with kirk more in my life.
Whatcha got?
Quoted from johnnyfive:The people that didn't feel comfortable here have left ages ago. I'm not sure this is the best metric for whether Pinside is a welcoming place or not.
I'm not comfortable with some of the stuff being posted on Pinside. And I'm not just talking about pictures. Example, some fairly bad stuff has been posted about Kevin Kulek's family. Some threats made even. That is simply unacceptable to me. I can't have that on Pinside. Should I leave too? Or do something about such posting behavior?
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:My concern is, we as society, are becoming far too sensitive and deferral to any group that complains about something. And many times, the group complaining isn't even the group "offended", just well-to-doers trying to draw attention to themselves.
But the world is also changing. With the way people communicate now it's a lot easier to offend someone on the other end of the country. Or the globe. What you feel perfectly acceptable could be offensive somewhere else. If Pinside was just a site for you and your buddies, no one would complain. But here we are trying to be welcoming to many different groups from different backgrounds. I think you need to also keep that in mind.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:The Left has certainly become that way.
Us folks in the middle feel like we have to walk on eggshells constantly these days.
Here at Tolerance Camp, your intolerance....Vill not be tolerated.
Toronto, ON
Quoted from NPO:Frankly, I'm tired of the negativity and disrespectful people that lurk here.
Honestly, one of the big reasons I sold my MetPro at the price I did is to start to retreat from this community more and more. Yeah, there's thread drains and ignore lists; I get it. There are also things like "taking it too far" or being a real off-putting jerk.
I am really getting that vibe more and more from a greater number of people here. There's a fair amount of keyboard warriors in this forum. When I am on this forum, I have a rule I live by: don't type anything you would not say to someone's face. I have genuinely tried to live by that, but some people here have honestly really tested my limits.
I came to this forum to learn technical knowledge and gain understanding of diagnosing machines, but honestly, that's about the last thing I have gained. My local Cincy-Dayton community has been amazing and taught me a LOT, and the sad thing is, I don't think I'd really be missing much here.
That sickens me. People shouldn't feel that way. Long standing members shouldn't have some "holier than thou" attitude just because you know more than another member. Whether it be technical knowledge, how to transport a machine, what new machines are coming out, how to dismantle a playfield, how to test a component to see if it is good or not, or anything else in this hobby - I know I have definitely felt disrespected, and here is my thoughts: if you don't have something constructive or helpful to say to assist someone new or someone that is learning for themselves, go pound sand.
I will give this community credit: I have bought and sold a lot of machines here, and I made sure I contributed donations to Pinside because Robin has given us something very special here. He has given us a hub for us to and enjoy sharing pinball knowledge and war stories. He has given us a place that helped me discover the entire Cincinnati-Dayton pinball community. He has given us a community where I have made some great friends and people I would never have met otherwise.
/rant off
I don't think you're alone in feeling this way...I've talked to a lot of local collectors/players in my neck of the woods and just about all of them can't stand the negativity and disrespect that pops-up on pinside. I think Pinside is a really cool place...so much potential has been reached, but so much more exists...I know this site has been an invaluable tool in my growth as a collector and player.
I don't think peoples' dislike of the negativity has anything to do with being too sensitive...just open for sale threads and read away...I know a few really solid collectors around here that have been absolutely skewered in their FS threads all for the sake of the entertainment of people hiding behind keyboards. It's a shame.
Quoted from robin:I'm not comfortable with some of the stuff being posted on Pinside. And I'm not just talking about pictures. Example, some fairly bad stuff has been posted about Kevin Kulek's family. Some threats made even. That is simply unacceptable to me. I can't have that on Pinside. Should I leave too? Or do something about such posting behavior?
I was just saying that relying on active members to tell you when material that makes them uncomfortable is posted isn't really a valuable way to get feedback, as the material posted here day-in-day-out shapes the set of people that are still around. Certainly not everyone here that doesn't like some of the content leaves, but a good number of them have.
Pinside hosts a great deal of amazing content and members, but like everything good, there are still rough edges to be found. While Pinside may be far from perfect, it's the best option around for those in the hobby. It's very welcoming for the masses, and that alone is a rare find on the internet.
Good luck...but I fear you are trying to move a mountain....you've let it go on too long IMO...I've been here 1 yr...pinside went from a few banter/sarcasm posts...to full blown attacks...and when you let threads like "The naked pinball challenge" go on...(which my awesome wife took 3rd)...what do you expect to go on...yes clean it up a bit...but to make pinside "family friendly" is a waste of time are resources...it's the INTERNET...if they are 18 they are adults...if under 18 their parents should police their web usage...not Robin/pinside.....with that said I love this site and am glad to follow the rules whatever they are...long live pinball...!!!.................Joey
Sana'a
Quoted from Zampinator:Vid is Not going to be Happy!
I'm totally happy.
This is Robin's baby, and he lets us hold it and coo all over it, without us being committed to changing it's diaper.
I travel the globe, and other than someplaces like Saudi Arabia, the USA has become a VERY conservative place the past 30 years.
The Pinside servers are in the USA.
If Robin no longer wants pictures of sexy girls playing pinball, that's OK. It's not like anyone is going to die because they can't find a thread about girls squishing their boobs against the playfield glass.
Quoted from Zampinator:Vid is Not going to be Happy!
One of the worst offenders IMO, but seemed to get away with it more than anyone else because of his reputation. Pictures of naked women don't offend me in the least, but there is a time and a place for them, a few don't seem to get that.
What I would like to see more than anything else is moderation and expulsion of people who deliberately troll threads to cause problems and be overtly negative, that would make Pinside a much more friendly place. The major complaint I hear from my pinball friends is they don't want to have to wade thru the tons of garbage to get some simple information, RGP became that way and Pinside is now going down that road.
Jmho:
1- pinside is a great site;
2- moderators do an excellent job overall;
3- like any community, there is a bell curve on the respectful/obnoxious spectrum, and it's fine to try and push behavior towards the former on purpose rather than let it drift towards the latter
4- consistent application of standards is not a goal in and of itself; it is fair for a moderator to consider individual cases and reach inconsistent conclusions.
5- for contributors who post metric tons of useful information and make a reasonable effort to self censor, a ban is a bad idea. If any particular post is too base or graphic, removal is adequate.
A huge thanks to Robin, the moderators, and the community for making Pinside great.
I just want a scrolling banner on the forum page for us small pinball Buisnesses to pay for advertising spots where everyone sees it.
Quoted from Zampinator:Vid is Not going to be Happy!
Quoted from dgpinball:One of the worst offenders IMO
LOL
Offender would imply some sort of wrongdoing.
Robin and I have had exchanges where he clearly set the guidelines.
No nudity.
No porn.
All of my beautiful images of the male and female form were carefully censored to display absolutely no nipples (a big sin in the USA), no pubic hair, and no actual porn.
The same standards as you would encounter at any public beach or Sunday newspaper ad.
- and like I always say, if you don't like what I post, click the ignore button, I use it all the time.
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Do any of you guys actually work, some of you are on here all day long. I am surprised there is no carpal tunnel threads yet. 
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:Do any of you guys actually work, some of you are on here all day long.
I have a desk job that doesn't require much attention.
Quoted from vid1900:I've been cranking to that same ad since 1975.
Way better than some of those broads in the Sears catalog.
I like the pictures, but it's not worth compromising the site. I would much rather have Pinside without boobs than no Pinside.
I much prefer that Robin be direct and tell us users what goes and does not go here.
Quoted from Nevus:I like the pictures, but it's not worth compromising the site. I would much rather have Pinside without boobs than no Pinside.
I much prefer that Robin be direct and tell us users what goes and does not go here.
I gave you an up vote...if for nothing else, your avatar alone! Petitioning Stern to get the license for a Led Zepplin pin seems more worthwhile than looking at boob pics on here all day...
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:First it starts with banning girly pics....next up will be profanity. After that, any pins with racy themes. Then rebuttals. On and on....
Political correctness is tyranny by another name.
Got to disagree with you on this. Pinball is not about girly pics. If I wanted to see that's, I would find that on my own. This is a forum about pinball. I do not even care for the profanity either. I won't push my beliefs on you, and I will respect you and you do the same. I do not talk about my beliefs here, why? This is a pinball site, not a religious debate platform forum. There are places for that if that is what your into.
Just got home and found my thread locked and all this controversy.Sorry Robin for starting this or making this the last straw.I never had intentions of putting the video on here or nude pics.I have been here many years,know the rules and how it is watched by moderators.I felt that being the incident happened in a game room,it would be entertaining for most on this site.Apparently it was because it had 175 that responded in 12hr including moderators.You got no fight from me,I'm a guest here and love pinside.
This being said,I have to get this off my chest.If this thread was good,bad or indifferent,the majority of the people enjoyed it.A few people come on and have strong issues with it - ruining it for the rest.Why,after reading the thread title,would they dive into it and have to voice their opinion.Why wouldn't they see the the title and say this is not for me and move on.
Thanks Robin for all you do,I will donate soon.
Quoted from brz:Why wouldn't they see the the title and say this is not for me and move on.
I agree ! So did you upload the vid yet ? 
I skip almost all threads that don't say WOZ in the title . 
If you would prefer a less moderated forum that doesn't require you to have USENET (which isn't really a default for most ISPs), I'm gonna suggest /pin/ on 8chan
It is a *chan board, so obviously NSFW (even the SFW boards on *chans I wouldn't risk browsing at work!)
I for one would welcome a more friendly tone to Pinside. Key is *friendly*; not looking for PC.
Quoted from robin:1. Pinside is first and foremost a pinball site.
2. It's also supposed to be family friendly.
1 > 2
Big thumbs up from me.
Some observations: We're now a pretty large group. And we have lots of types of people here. Some people fall into more than one group, which gives them variable amounts of leeway with rules here.
The good parts:
The lurker, or perhaps the first time reader. One who hasn't contributed text, data, or cash to help pinside. I'm sure there's a ton of them here, considering how often Pinside links are #1 to any pinball question you can ask of the search engines.
The average joe, which.. I'm a part of. I'm relatively new to the hobby. I have some clue, but could use a lot more. I find a lot of technical value in what is on Pinside still. I help where I can; but I won't be well known for it. I'm pretty sure this is the second biggest group by headcount; but perhaps a lower ranked group by post count.
the helpful - those who take the time to explain how things are done. Those who take time to help a noob understand what might be broken, and spend 10x the time talking the noob through things, helping people learn to fish. Chris, Zaza, Vid: wow. What assets to the preservation of our hobby.
the moderators - who have a thankless job, and I appreciate what they have to go through. I suspect more moderators are needed; and I also expect that the rules need to be made super clear; and applied super consistently. And let anyone who dislikes the rules, find a community with rules that match their own values.
Then, in increasing levels of negativity:
The pornsters, who love to share their collection of art. I'm confused how they mistake "pinside" for "pornhub". There are totally places for the material that gets posted; the Internet would not be the commercial success it is without it . I'm not offended by the material; I just don't think this is the place for it. Today's pinside is far less family friendly than any pinball collection I've seen. And I'm certain we have have effectively discouraged multiple social groups from participating here. If we merely stopped going out of our way to be offensive, it'd be easier for them to participate and develop a thicker skin over more minor differences.
The burned, who preordered and have been disappointed by (let's generalize, not argue here!) poor business practices. I think Pinside has been a valuable place for people to communicate. I get that some of the talk around these issues can be bitter. People need to blow off steam. But I'd hope that at some point we can say what needs to be said - just once or twice or thrice - and move on. I'm guilt of it myself, and will do my best to stop bagging on STI.
The manufacturers, who are now getting tons of tough questions due to the various recent failures. As they should. However, this also brings out the <b>axe grinders</b>, who won't let up. I'm not sure how healthy this is for anyone. It doesn't help that the manufacturers, in some cases, fail at basic PR. They don't stay positively engaged enough to build up karma to be granted immunity for the once in a blue moon unfortunate post. And they don't know when to stay quiet, because there is no other positive outcome for the conversation at hand. At a time with all the failures going on, it would behoove some folks to take PR101. Or outsource it, let someone else work with the community.
The grievers, who exist simple to make the rest of us miserable. These aren't the people who are "Sorry, I was pissed yesterday, let's talk rationally today.". These are the people who instead go out of their way to provoke. This is what they do for fun; and we fall for it. The ban hammer works only barely; it is too easy to make a new account. And the ignore button barely works when you bring up a thread, and the remaining half of the posts you see are replies to the people you've ignored.
This last category is the one I have the most problem with; they create the most negativity here. Not just transiently but consistently and pervasively. I wish I had an answer on how to address it that didn't penalize potential new members, who found us with a web search for help on their new-to-them machine.
Quoted from jfesler:This last category is the one I have the most problem with; they create the most negativity here. Not just transiently but consistently and pervasively. I wish I had an answer on how to address it that didn't penalize potential new members, who found us with a web search for help on their new-to-them machine.
^^^^^ !
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