(Topic ID: 199686)

Let's talk about PRICING....!

By iceman44

6 years ago


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  • 156 posts
  • 75 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Nevus
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 156 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
    13
    #1 6 years ago

    So Expo is around the corner next week, a few new games are being introduced.

    Stern has already hit $8500 on the LE and I think JJP is going up another 5 bills to $8500 for the base model. Why not? Everybody raves about the F ing quality and its so much better than a Stern LE.

    This has become a HUO market across the board, with location taking a back seat.

    Tough for an OP to make enough $$$ routing a JJP pin.

    What you get with JJP is great support, quality, code support (as long as they don't make 3 games a yr) and a bulls eye on the HUO market.

    How much more can they siphon out of us?

    Most people remember when WOZ was announced at $6500 and it was a HUGE WTF moment.

    Hard to believe $9k-$10k is going to be the norm in HUO market from here on out.

    Even Spooky, as they expand and grow as demand gets higher and higher for their stuff, prices gotta keep going up. More overhead, fixed and variable.

    I see folks being MUCH more selective going forward, including myself.

    #2 6 years ago

    For sure. I picked up a Dialed In, but going forward I think I'm Dialed Out on NIB, and maybe even the secondary market. The prices I've seen lately on older pins are just nuts.

    I've been getting back into video gaming and taken on a project of building a new arcade cabinet. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than pinball.

    #3 6 years ago

    SEND MONEY NOW!

    15
    #4 6 years ago

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    #5 6 years ago

    I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for the next NIB today...

    22
    #6 6 years ago

    I think Stern felt a major squeeze from collectors over SW. Stern got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. I just hope Jack is smarter and does the opposite. Since SW was not a cash cow alot of collectors have a little stash waiting to be splurged. If Jack was smart he'd reduce the price and put the squeeze on Stern (even for just 1 title). If both main players decide to raise prices too high then the pool of NIB buyers will just get smaller until the pot is all dried out.

    #7 6 years ago

    The NIB market seems to be pulling secondary market up with it. I've been watching craigslist in multiple locations closely for over a month now, and the only listings that last more than a week are severely overpriced.

    Games that used to be $2,000 five years ago are now $3,000-$3,500... and they sell! It's ridiculous!

    #8 6 years ago

    Something to keep in mind. In an interview it was stated that at $6500 JJP was loosing money on each WOZ sold at that price.

    12
    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from Allibaster:

    The NIB market seems to be pulling secondary market up with it. I've been watching craigslist in multiple locations closely for over a month now, and the only listing that last more than a week are severely overpriced.
    Games that used to be $2,000 five years ago are now $3,000-$3,500... and they sell! It's ridiculous!

    Older williams games are red hot right now...the HUO secondary stern market is getting soft...

    #10 6 years ago

    What about a kit game that come unassembled that ou put together?

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from Bigbad:

    What about a kit game that come unassembled that ou put together?

    Maybe Jpop could fly in and help put it together Wasn’t that an offering on RAZA?

    -1
    #12 6 years ago
    Quoted from jints56:

    Maybe Jpop could fly in and help put it together Wasn’t that an offering on RAZA?

    I have no idea I’m just saying if I had the option to buy the next stern game and I could assemble it myself to save a decent amount of cash I probably would

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from Bigbad:

    What about a kit game that come unassembled that ou put together?

    Seems like there's a lot of folk that struggle with basic pinball electrical concepts. Good luck walking them through the switch matrix after they assemble it and it doesn't work...

    12
    #14 6 years ago

    It's about time somebody brought this subject up.

    #15 6 years ago
    Quoted from Allibaster:

    Seems like there's a lot of folk that struggle with basic pinball electrical concepts. Good luck walking them through the switch matrix after they assemble it and it doesn't work...

    I agree. There are too many variables that they would have to overcome to make "build your own" pinball machines. Even if they were to isolate a switch matrix for example into a plug and play option. The engineering in that would kill the overhead for the cost of the product. The market for knowledgeable individuals who could build a game from a pile of parts would be limited.

    #16 6 years ago

    I honestly don't care what they charge for new pinball machines, because if it's one of my dream themes, you know I'm buyin' it!

    And as long as they never do a Big Daddy remake, I'm already sitting on a pile of pinball equity.

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    32
    #17 6 years ago

    Ice... you're the exact type of buyer that caused all of this pinball mess.

    Damn you big spenders, damn you all to hell.

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    #18 6 years ago

    I’m more concerned about when the bubble will burst, dimples, code, and which B-level WMS will crack the $5K mark.

    #19 6 years ago

    I pick my spots but I'm a Stern pro buyer.
    I can deal with 5 k at this point that's seems to be my wheelhouse.
    So when is the Tron VE coming out ? That's an exception.

    #20 6 years ago

    This all is well and good until another announcement. Then its back to people throwing money at it.

    #21 6 years ago

    I suspect price plays a factor is purchasing my pins, but honestly I want a product that is built well, fun, and complete. Yes JJP products are expensive (about the same as Stern LE's), but in my experience their complete once delivered (or very close), built very well (all u need to do is lift a JJP play field versus a stern), and offer very good customer support. For myself its worth the extra coin to know that I'm getting a great product. With Stern (and I have several) its really a crap shoot.

    #22 6 years ago

    I see the pinball market staying flat for a while....it will go as the economy goes. I've recently see older WMS titles like WCS going for $1500 and it's taking weeks to sell the darn thing. The stuff in demand is still commanding a descent price but I've even see Hobbit recently somewhere near NYC for $5700. Prices for NIB pins are crazy right now and the home market buyer is alot more fragile than your coin op businesses. Manufacturers are riding that wave right now...but it won't last. NIB Home Users will become less and less as more new pins come out.

    As more NIB titles come out and the demand is there for it...it will drive used prices down because pinheads need to clear out space for the NIB title and they will take less than market value for their pins in their collection.

    #23 6 years ago

    Wait till you see the new jjp pin .... it has some pretty awesome features/toys and the next few themes are pretty good also imo. Yea they are expensive but hell everything is now in this hobby ..... selling my b/w pins are paying for these awesome new pins with cash left over. After getting my first jjp (dile) im a fan for life as their pins are just a step or 2 above everything else on the market. Ill have all jjp pins by this time next year as its the direction we want to go now .... they are like modern day b/w pins which were the best ever imo.

    10
    #24 6 years ago
    Quoted from Chicoman:

    I see the pinball market staying flat for a while....it will go as the economy goes. I've recently see older WMS titles like WCS going for $1500 and it's taking weeks to sell the darn thing. The stuff in demand is still commanding a descent price but I've even see Hobbit recently somewhere near NYC for $5700. Prices for NIB pins are crazy right now and the home market buyer is alot more fragile than your coin op businesses. Manufacturers are riding that wave right now...but it won't last. NIB Home Users will become less and less as more new pins come out.
    As more NIB titles come out and the demand is there for it...it will drive used prices down because pinheads need to clear out space for the NIB title and they will take less than market value for their pins in their collection.

    Where on Earth did you see a WCS for $1500?!? I would have bought that in a heart beat. That's Judge Dredd territory !

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from Chicoman:

    I see the pinball market staying flat for a while....it will go as the economy goes. I've recently see older WMS titles like WCS going for $1500 and it's taking weeks to sell the darn thing. The stuff in demand is still commanding a descent price but I've even see Hobbit recently somewhere near NYC for $5700. Prices for NIB pins are crazy right now and the home market buyer is alot more fragile than your coin op businesses. Manufacturers are riding that wave right now...but it won't last. NIB Home Users will become less and less as more new pins come out.
    As more NIB titles come out and the demand is there for it...it will drive used prices down because pinheads need to clear out space for the NIB title and they will take less than market value for their pins in their collection.

    Have my wcs sold for 3k many times over lol just gotta finish it up..... older pins in nice condition are bringing really good money compared to what they were years ago... glad i got great deals on all them lol.....

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from bigd1979:

    Wait till you see the new jjp pin .... it has some pretty awesome features/toys and the next few themes are pretty good also imo. Yea they are expensive but hell everything is now in this hobby ..... selling my b/w pins are paying for these awesome new pins with cash left over. After getting my first jjp (dile) im a fan for life as their pins are just a step or 2 above everything else on the market. Ill have all jjp pins by this time next year as its the direction we want to go now .... they are like modern day b/w pins which were the best ever imo.

    The CGC remake games are also built with quality, and their support is as good as JJP.

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

    Where on Earth did you see a WCS for $1500?!? I would have bought that in a heart beat. That's Judge Dredd territory !

    Yea i know a few that sold quickly for 2750 and 3k .... 1500 is a steal these days.

    #28 6 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    The CGC remake games are also built with quality, and their support is as good as JJP.

    Yea they are nice but i want new stuff especially for their price. ... i own/owned most the originals allready for a fraction of the remake cost. Still nice for other's that haven't owned them tho..... but the tech /lightning and code are so good on the jjp pins compared to old stuff imo especially in home use.

    #29 6 years ago

    I'm buying my first NIB pin MMR. I had to sell my hot rod to buy it. I've never played MM only on the computer but me and wife loved it. I've been wanting one every since they said they were going to remake it. I hope I don't have as much trouble when I get it as I'm having with it before it gets here.

    #30 6 years ago
    Quoted from guss:

    I'm buying my first NIB pin MMR. I had to sell my hot rod to buy it. I've never played MM only on the computer but me and wife loved it. I've been wanting one every since they said they were going to remake it. I hope I don't have as much trouble when I get it as I'm having with it before it gets here.

    Great game... u won't be disappointed ....

    #31 6 years ago
    Quoted from guss:

    I'm buying my first NIB pin MMR. I had to sell my hot rod to buy it. I've never played MM only on the computer but me and wife loved it. I've been wanting one every since they said they were going to remake it. I hope I don't have as much trouble when I get it as I'm having with it before it gets here.

    you'll love it...I have the MMRLE and its been awesome...make sure you install the cliffy protectors day 1, and definitely upgrade to the color dmd

    #32 6 years ago

    I'm getting the color and ordered the cliffy's and have the mantis.

    11
    #33 6 years ago

    Greetings from the Amusement Operations World. We have seen this exact same thing happen to all of our Arcade games as well. Let's use Arcade driving games for example. New Crusin Blast sells for 7600.00 ish. All new drivers sell for roughly the same. Some like Mario Kart sell for 10,500.00. What this has done is made the used market very strong. Previous models of driving games Dirty Drivin FnF Super Cars and other good Drivers used to sell for 2500 to 3500 in the used market. Since the price of new equipment is so high people started to say if I sell this for 3k what am I going to replace it with? They will have to sell their game plus come out of pocket another 5-7k. Obviously lots of operators were not on board with this model. So everyone started to not sell their used newer equipment. Hence inflating the market. Operators would demand near new prices for their pre owned equipment . So in a nut shell the manufacture charging so much to there customer effects the whole market. and Not for the better. I have invested millions in my company to stay relevant to our customers. Lots of operators could not keep up with the price increases and were forced out of business. This is very sad for the entire industry. I will be attending IAAPA the largest Amusement attraction show in the world next month in Orlando FL. Every year It is the same. Lots of friendly faces and smiles as long as we bring our check books. The average price for a redemption game ( ticket arcade) is 12k. This is the new normal. New games come out every year and the price keeps getting higher and higher. 30k for a sit down game. Yep 30k and each one of my locations need at least one. Things are beyond crazy. Technology in theory is supposed to get cheaper as time progresses. Where will this stop? Not sure but I can tell you from this side of the Amusement world it is not showing signs of slowing.

    #34 6 years ago
    Quoted from bigd1979:

    Yea they are nice but i want new stuff especially for their price. ... i own/owned most the originals allready for a fraction of the remake cost. Still nice for other's that haven't owned them tho..... but the tech /lightning and code are so good on the jjp pins compared to old stuff imo especially in home use.

    I hear ya...I have all three so I would agree. Clearly JJP has taken pinball to the next level, which is really nice to see.

    #35 6 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I hear ya...I have all three so I would agree. Clearly JJP has taken pinball to the next level, which is really nice to see.

    Yep and more great things to come on the next 2 releases....

    #36 6 years ago

    I wish JJP would make something that wasn't a wide body. I just don't like the feel of a wide body.

    #37 6 years ago
    Quoted from guss:

    I wish JJP would make something that wasn't a wide body. I just don't like the feel of a wide body.

    DI LE is a standard body

    -3
    #38 6 years ago

    I don't even own a cell phone. Wrong theme.

    13
    #39 6 years ago
    Quoted from guss:

    I don't even own a cell phone. Wrong theme.

    probably the best game to hit the market in 20 years....

    #40 6 years ago

    No shit Sherlock. I never owned a cell phone either. But Dialed In is a look into the future, not the past.

    And regular width makes it even better. I sold all my widebody games a long time ago and really aren't looking for another.

    #41 6 years ago
    Quoted from guss:

    I don't even own a cell phone. Wrong theme.

    Thats not the theme....

    #42 6 years ago

    I never played one. I guess I'll have to check it out.

    #43 6 years ago

    My take from this thread is why isn't there a Dr.Suess pin? And I also have $$ for another pin or two but am going to sit on it for a while to see what's what. Unless I'm able to break away and go to Expo, play Total Annihilation, fall head over heels, and buy it. But that would never happen, right?

    #44 6 years ago
    Quoted from Chisox:

    My take from this thread is why isn't there a Dr.Suess pin? And I also have $$ for another pin or two but am going to sit on it for a while to see what's what. Unless I'm able to break away and go to Expo, play Total Annihilation, fall head over heels, and buy it. But that would never happen, right?

    I didn't care for it overall and decided not to order one bc it wldnt last long in my collection. Plus 6500 shipped is still alot of money and just wasn't enough game there to justify the cost for us . I love bsd bc its simplicity/difficulty but it actually has alot of stuff and i only payed 1400 for it lol.

    #45 6 years ago

    But yes price is high on everything but when I end up selling my classic pins for more than i paid it helps offset the cost on the new stuff . Plus no one is forced to buy these expensive toys..... plenty of cheaper fun pins out there. ... tho its getting more difficult to find them.

    #46 6 years ago
    Quoted from Chisox:

    why isn't there a Dr.Suess pin?

    Because the theme is still too current.

    #47 6 years ago

    New games prices have been putting me in the NO list more and more frequently. I'm just not getting enough enjoyment for my money to justify $8-9,000.00 per game. I have a fair amount of disposable income, but have set limits.

    A NIB game for me now has to begin with 6 as the first digit of four. I have no interest in a 5 digit game. For Stern, that will make me a pro buyer in the near future. More reasonably, I will probably just drop out of the NIB market and go to lightly used HUO as my personal version of "new"

    My collection and history show I have owned and do own some expensive games. It turns out that I don't necessarily enjoy them more than less expensive games.

    #48 6 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    I think Stern felt a major squeeze from collectors over SW. Stern got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. I just hope Jack is smarter and does the opposite. Since SW was not a cash cow alot of collectors have a little stash waiting to be splurged. If Jack was smart he'd reduce the price and put the squeeze on Stern (even for just 1 title). If both main players decide to raise prices too high then the pool of NIB buyers will just get smaller until the pot is all dried out.

    I don't think JJP can compete on price. Just don't see the sales increasing enough to support a lower price point. And lets face it. Stern already is the king of a low BOM machine.

    #49 6 years ago
    Quoted from Chicoman:

    I see the pinball market staying flat for a while....it will go as the economy goes. I've recently see older WMS titles like WCS going for $1500 and it's taking weeks to sell the darn thing. The stuff in demand is still commanding a descent price but I've even see Hobbit recently somewhere near NYC for $5700. Prices for NIB pins are crazy right now and the home market buyer is alot more fragile than your coin op businesses. Manufacturers are riding that wave right now...but it won't last. NIB Home Users will become less and less as more new pins come out.
    As more NIB titles come out and the demand is there for it...it will drive used prices down because pinheads need to clear out space for the NIB title and they will take less than market value for their pins in their collection.

    The high price for NIB pins is not driving prices down for older games, it is the opposite - it's driving prices up!

    21
    #50 6 years ago

    JJP definitely wants more than I am willing to spend on a pinball machine and Stern is getting close. I don't give a sh*t how good a pinball machine is or how much money I have, I am NOT paying 8k for a damn pinball machine period!

    There are 156 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.

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