(Topic ID: 223277)

Lets talk about how stupid JJP games Tilt warnings per game setting is

By InfiniteLives

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“Are Tilt Warnings per GAME instead of per BALL a good default setting?”

  • Yeah, its a good thing 17 votes
    31%
  • No, its pretty dumb 34 votes
    63%
  • I don't nudge, I just watch the ball drain like a chump 3 votes
    6%

(54 votes)

#1 5 years ago

Okay, to preface: this is not a bash JJP thread.

This is to address what I consider a stupid default setting.

Regardless if you are playing casually or competitively, this is a horrible setting; Especially if you do not know it is set that way.

I would say like 75% of the JJP machines around me are set up to the normal 2 warnings then tilt setting per ball, but a few are set up with the B.S. 3 per game.

Recently I played an updated Hobbit that was previously set to 3 per ball but with the new code the default setting reverted back to 3 per game and no one had changed it yet. I know it should be on the onus of the player to know where they are at with this, IE cycling thru the screens to see how many warnings they have, but its still lame, especially if it is a casual player who has no idea. I am sure they come away feeling ripped off or think the game is broken or cheating them somehow.

It seems like a cheap way to shorting the game and get more coin drop. What other reason would this be the default setting? It is so odd as I don't know of any other pinball game that has warnings built in that does this.

I played in Pinburgh where the games are set up for short ball times, and I played their Hobbit with lightning flippers, no rubbers and no ball save, but it was on 3 per ball not 3 per game, which saved my butt on ball 3 where I took a double danger to save the ball and came back and won the match.

I don't care if locations want to use this setting, but it seems like it should be something you change, not the default and should be displayed for the player somewhere prior to the start of the game (whether by JJP on the screen or by the op; maybe on a card like the ones that say 3 ball game [3 warnings per game] or something).

//end rant

#2 5 years ago

They didn't invent it but it sucks balls yea.

#3 5 years ago

That’s a hell of a rant. Haha. Just one of the things I try to get cleared up before I start a match. If not playing competitively, I couldn’t care less. I’ll find out soon enough.

#4 5 years ago

It's dumb and shouldn't be the default setting.

Pretty easy to fix though.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

That’s a hell of a rant. Haha. Just one of the things I try to get cleared up before I start a match. If not playing competitively, I couldn’t care less. I’ll find out soon enough.

I need to do a better job of making sure before I play. I typically try and ask the TD most times but I totally spaced it last night at team league since its pretty casual, we still won but I totes tilted ball 3 on a single small danger and I was like, oh yeah, I hate this setting lol

#6 5 years ago

Imagine that. The manufacturer of the most expensive games on the market is trying to limit the amount of abuse these things take on location...

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's dumb and shouldn't be the default setting.

Pretty easy to fix though.

Yup.

Quoted from InfiniteLives:

displayed for the player somewhere prior to the start of the game

I played it in a round at Pinburgh and used the Instant Info before I plunged ball 1 to see how it was set.

#8 5 years ago

It's better than tilts per week which was Jack's first choice.

#9 5 years ago

Yeah its an easy fix but the op has to be aware of it or even care. seems most games around here stay at the factory settings for everything, cant speak for every game everywhere.

op took in an xmen on trade and had it on location for like a year on easy settings for the magneto mb locks so you didnt ever have to earn the locks for the first mb until i finally got them to change it for a tournament to the default settings.

#10 5 years ago

Well, the player can look to see the setting before playing, I think instant info lets you know per game/per ball.
Casual players don't usually nudge, so I don't think that really comes into play, they especially don't nudge every ball.
Another aspect is I think they usually give 3 warnings/game, as opposed to the usual 2/ball, this means on a really good ball, you might use the extra warning strategically, although that's probly far fetched thinking.
Ultimately, I looked at it as better than wedgehead tilt=game over man!
But it is strange they decided to use it as default, but maybe Keefer really liked the idea, and thought if it wasn't default, nobody would ever see it.

#11 5 years ago

I agree pretty stupid in a home environment since most don't abuse their machines however on location I get it. Just last week there was a couple guys that were rough on the machines where I was playing on vacation. This location had all the LE JJP machines and pretty much all the Sterns were LE as well. If I was he owner I have them set tight too!

Have to have respect

#12 5 years ago

First thing I change

#13 5 years ago

Yes, there should be no tilt warnings at all.

#14 5 years ago

Doesn't bother me. But then again, I have my JJP's sitting next to a 1964 EM that ends the game (the whole game) if you tilt...and no warnings. I nudge, but never move that machine.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Crile1:

Doesn't bother me. But then again, I have my JJP's sitting next to a 1964 EM that ends the game (the whole game) if you tilt...and no warnings. I nudge, but never move that machine.

I think this was considered a happy medium between this and the tilt-per-ball

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Well, the player can look to see the setting before playing, I think instant info lets you know per game/per ball.
Casual players don't usually nudge, so I don't think that really comes into play, they especially don't nudge every ball.
Another aspect is I think they usually give 3 warnings/game, as opposed to the usual 2/ball, this means on a really good ball, you might use the extra warning strategically, although that's probly far fetched thinking.
Ultimately, I looked at it as better than wedgehead tilt=game over man!
But it is strange they decided to use it as default, but maybe Keefer really liked the idea, and thought if it wasn't default, nobody would ever see it.

hmm, im pretty sure its just 2 warnings then tilt as default.

some casual people are pretty aggressive on the games, its tough to throw a blanket statement on "casual" as everyone who doesnt play competitively is a complete schmuck at pinball and wont nudge/shake/tilt, but yeah im sure the majority dont really notice it

the wedge head comparisons are completely different tho as most people know that they are "tilt end games" and it says on the apron cards "tilt ends game"
when I play an EM by default i am not going to be as aggressive on the machine, even non-tilt end games there are no warnings you just tilt. DMD era games are pretty much all 2 dangers then tilt per ball. I just think its a dumb default setting and wanted to rant lol

#17 5 years ago

Hobbit and Oz take quite a bit of “nudging” to register a warning... those suckers are heavy!

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

when I play an EM by default i am not going to be as aggressive on the machine, even non-tilt end games there are no warnings you just tilt.

Why are you like that? My guess past experiences dictate this behavior.

Give it time, you’ll be used to JJP games too. Haha

There are tons of dmd games that aren’t 2 tilt warnings (data east and lots of white stars)

#19 5 years ago

Nope. I leave it. I totally get it. If you play in our events you’ll get the tilts per game. We put signs on the game to tell you.

If it’s set like that with a feather tight tilt I agree that’s no good though. But a reasonable tilt and that default setting I think is apropriate for a tournament. You can get away with one crazy move per game. Not every ball. Modern games are taking longer and longer to play in tournaments. This is a nice balance to that and welcomed.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Yes, there should be no tilt warnings at all.

Tilt ends game!

rd

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Why are you like that? My guess past experiences dictate this behavior.
Give it time, you’ll be used to JJP games too. Haha

I dont understand the question? Why am i like what? Not as aggressive on a machine that will tilt to end my game? that is pretty self explanatory. my weakness in my pinball game is my accuracy, but (probably because of that) my biggest strength is nudging/saving the ball... i am not one of the greats, i think i currently ranked 336th. I dont suck at JJP games, I just think this is a shitty setting, not sure where you are going with that?

That left outlane death hole on WOZ def needs some action on the machine to prevent drains...

Quoted from chuckwurt:

There are tons of dmd games that aren’t 2 tilt warnings (data east and lots of white stars)

TONS? which data easts and white stars are like that, I honestly dont know of any (or they were set to 2 warnings than tilt when ive played them).

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Casual players don't usually nudge, so I don't think that really comes into play, they especially don't nudge every ball.

This statement is the genesis of the whole idea.

All tilt warnings do is increase the gulf between skilled and casual players. I'm not really sure why that gulf NEEDS to be increased further than it is.

Typically with one major shove, you'll use up your warnings but save the ball. I'm willing to live with 1 extra ball for a better player, but not 3 extra balls.

Every game we've done so far also has the option to win them back from mystery, and you're more likely to get one back the less you have, so we're not total assholes. (This behavior is operator adjustable, though, but it does default to available.)

To set the record straight, the default setting is 2 warnings per game. POTC also shows you in inserts how many warnings you have left.

Also, with everyone complaining about how long games play, you want to add even MORE time with more warnings? LOL

But, it is a setting for a reason, and one is welcome to change it. And if you need someone's face to put on a dartboard for this existing, use mine; it was completely my idea to go down this path. I really don't see the problem, and neither did a lot of people I ran it past before I put it in.

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

All tilt warnings do is increase the gulf between skilled and casual players. I'm not really sure why that gulf NEEDS to be increased further than it is.
Typically with one major shove, you'll use up your warnings but save the ball. I'm willing to live with 1 extra ball for a better player, but not 3 extra balls.

Interesting thought process, does the gap between casual and skilled players matter as they are not typically playing each other?

Or, conversely, if a less skilled player was trying to get better, would not seeing a skilled player earn those "extra balls" from smart nudging/sliding to save the ball inspire them to learn and play better?

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Also, with everyone complaining about how long games play, you want to add even MORE time with more warnings? LOL
.

I get that, but even at pinburgh it was set to per ball not per game

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Every game we've done so far also has the option to win them back from mystery, and you're more likely to get one back the less you have, so we're not total assholes. (This behavior is operator adjustable, though, but it does default to available.)

out of curiosity, in tournament settings does the add a warning mystery increase or decrease in appearance?

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

To set the record straight, the default setting is 2 warnings per game. POTC also shows you in inserts how many warnings you have left.

I really like the POTC inserts and i am shamelessly stealing it for my homebrew

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

I dont understand the question? Why am i like what?

What I was trying to say is you’re okay with the rules of those EMs because you’re used to them. Once you get used to JJP games it would be alright too.

Quoted from InfiniteLives:

TONS? which data easts and white stars are like that, I honestly dont know of any (or they were set to 2 warnings than tilt when ive played them).

Pretty sure every data east dmd is default one warning.

SST and sopranos are either 1 or 3 warnings default. Not sure which. All I know is 2 isn’t even an option. Haha

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

What I was trying to say is you’re okay with the rules of those EMs because you’re used to them. Once you get used to JJP games it would be alright too.

fair enough

Quoted from chuckwurt:

Pretty sure every data east dmd is default one warning.
SST and sopranos are either 1 or 3 warnings default. Not sure which. All I know is 2 isn’t even an option. Haha

its not 3 warnings, its 2 warnings than the 3rd results in tilt and this is the default. Sopranos for sure is you get 2 warnings and the third is a tilt. cant speak for SST as I dont have much time on it, but i play a ton of sopranos and DNO can attest to the last monthly in denver in the finals i took a double danger and came back and won on Sopranos... there is a reason the t-shirt company is called double danger lol

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

fair enough

its not 3 warnings, its 2 warnings than the 3rd results in tilt and this is the default. Sopranos for sure is you get 2 warnings and the third is a tilt. cant speak for SST as I dont have much time on it, but i play a ton of sopranos and DNO can attest to the last monthly in denver in the finals i took a double danger and came back and won on Sopranos... there is a reason the t-shirt company is called double danger lol

Disagree on sopranos. I’ve tested it on my personal machine lots. I’ll post a video here. Definitely get three warnings. And again in the settings the options are 1, then 3, then 4 and so on. Don’t ask me why that is. But pretty sure setting to 3 gives you three warnings.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Disagree on sopranos. I’ve tested it on my personal machine lots. I’ll post a video here. Definitely get three warnings. And again in the settings the options are 1, then 3, then 4 and so on. Don’t ask me why that is. But pretty sure setting to 3 gives you three warnings.

well if you have one i cannot disagree with you on that. Keith coded that one too so maybe he can chime in. Unless 3 means 2 dangers plus the 3rd that tilts it. I have no idea but i dont feel like ive ever gotten 3 dangers on a game before tilt //shrugs

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Disagree on sopranos. I’ve tested it on my personal machine lots. I’ll post a video here. Definitely get three warnings. And again in the settings the options are 1, then 3, then 4 and so on. Don’t ask me why that is. But pretty sure setting to 3 gives you three warnings.

Part of the fallout in the great DE-WMS legal battles in the early 90s was the ability to set for exactly 2 tilt warnings. As it was told to me, Williams came up with the 2 warnings as "strike 1, strike 2, strike 3, you're out!" They held this near and dear enough to them that this was a casualty for whitestar games at some point, and stayed that way until SAM. TBH, I thought I changed it at one point, but if Sopranos still one or three, then I guess not.

If you set your game to a tournament mode, that actually does change the setting to 2 warnings. Pretty sneaky, sis.

BTW, the whitestar default was 1 per ball.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Part of the fallout in the great DE-WMS legal battles in the early 90s was the ability to set for exactly 2 tilt warnings. As it was told to me, Williams came up with the 2 warnings as "strike 1, strike 2, strike 3, you're out!" They held this near and dear enough to them that this was a casualty for whitestar games at some point, and stayed that way until SAM. TBH, I thought I changed it at one point, but if Sopranos still one or three, then I guess not.
If you set your game to a tournament mode, that actually does change the setting to 2 warnings. Pretty sneaky, sis.
BTW, the whitestar default was 1 per ball.

This is fascinating. Haha. Thanks for sharing!

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

BTW, the whitestar default was 1 per ball.

Hmm...I'll have to check RBION when I get some because that doesn't sound right. But hey, I've been wrong plenty.
Or does that mean the original Sega Whitestar?

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

If you set your game to a tournament mode, that actually does change the setting to 2 warnings. Pretty sneaky, sis.

nice, must be i always play it when its in tournament mode, thanks for the history!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
From: $ 2.50
Hardware
Pinball Haven
Hardware
$ 125.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Dijohn
Decorations
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
Decorations
$ 29.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Life
Toys/Add-ons
$ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
$ 11.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
Toys/Add-ons
$ 6.00
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
From: $ 24.00
$ 130.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
Shooter rods
$ 85.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
Armor and blades
$ 18.00
Playfield - Protection
Volcano Pinball
Protection
8,995
Machine - For Sale
Ogden, UT
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
9,200
Machine - For Sale
Cedar City, UT
$ 29.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos LLC
Decorations
$ 29.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
Other
8,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Salinas, CA
$ 130.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Dijohn
Decorations
$ 259.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toppers
From: $ 24.00
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toppers
$ 69.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pixels Arcade Games
Toys/Add-ons
$ 39.00
Playfield - Other
Travahontas Mods
Other
From: $ 12.99
Electronics
Lermods
Electronics
From: $ 12.00
Flipper Parts
Precision Pinball prod.
Flipper parts
$ 259.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toppers
13,000
Machine - For Sale
Charles Town, WV
$ 95.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Mod Co.
Sound/Speakers
$ 8.00
Cabinet - Other
Side Gig Studios
Other
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-talk-about-how-stupid-jjp-games-tilt-warnings-per-game-setting-is?hl=crile1 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.