(Topic ID: 142323)

Let's Get This Carpet Flying!


By TopMoose

3 years ago



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  • 19 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by MikeO
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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PA190247.jpg
PA190248_1.jpg

#1 3 years ago

I picked up one of my grail pins this past Spring and have spent the summer restoring the cabinet and playfield. Now that it's back together in once piece, it's time to get her in proper mechanical shape. I've already solved half a dozen problems on my own, most of which were due to improper re-assembly, so I'm hoping that some of the other problems will be simple fixes as well.

Please note that I've adjusted and cleaned all the leaf switches and I've been following the schematic as best I can. Here's what I'm dealing with, in order of priority:

1. Upon booting up, the lights flash for half a second and the machine immediately goes into tilt mode. I don't think that's normal.

2. When I push the start button, the lights come on, the score reels (mostly) reset, the score motor turns and the ball kicks out. But the "advance ball counter" coil doesn't fire, so I have to reach in and advance it manually. After that, the targets, scoring and flippers work (mostly) and when I drain, the ball kicks back out but it stays on Ball 1. Before I replace the stepper coil, is there something I should check?

3. The tens reel advances properly but doesn't reset. Sometimes, it buzzes so badly that it shakes itself right out of its slot.

4. The blue pop bumpers don't fire. I can trigger them manually with the Bumper relay, but the ball won't trigger them. I remember this being a problem in the test games while making the deal. I'm sure I'll need to replace the coils, but aside from adjusting the leaf switches, is there something else I should look at?

5. Some of the bulb sockets are loose, causing the lights to flicker when bumped or not light at all. Is there an easy fix for that, aside from replacing the socket?

6. The flipper coils are buzzy and I know they'll need to be replaced.

That's all I can think of for now - let me know what I should be looking at. I can provide photos if you'd like to look at something specific. Thanks!

#2 3 years ago

Here are a couple of photos. Everyone likes photos!

PA190248_1.jpg

PA190247.jpg

I do have a backglass, by the way - I just hadn't placed it in when I took that picture.

#3 3 years ago

Can you explain what you mean by "booting up"? Is that just turning it on, or trying to start a game? (I don't think of EMs has "booting", since there's no CPU in them.)

Will answer more tomorrow.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

1. Upon booting up, the lights flash for half a second and the machine immediately goes into tilt mode. I don't think that's normal.

This is normal for a power on. The Tilt relay (TB) is tripped via a make/break switch on the Hold relay (R), since R hasn't energized yet. The first startup sequence will reset the Control Bank, which resets TB, and from that point the game won't be in tilt again until it's actually tilted, or powered off and back on.

Quoted from TopMoose:

But the "advance ball counter" coil doesn't fire

This is the Ball Count unit. On the schematic, look for Add "Ball Count" unit, and you'll see that the trough switch needs to close to complete the path to that coil (along with a handful of other switches). The trough switch is the switch that needs to close when the ball passes from the return kicker over to the shooter lane. Simplest thing is to check that switch for proper operation. Otherwise, check the rest of the path. It still could be the coil, but it hardly ever is.

Quoted from TopMoose:

3. The tens reel advances properly but doesn't reset. Sometimes, it buzzes so badly that it shakes itself right out of its slot.

By "advances properly" I assume you mean that it works correctly for scoring, but not for reset? Those do involve two different paths. On the schematic, look at the path that has the "Tens Unit Runout" switch. That needs to close, a switch on DB needs to be closed (it will be during reset), and a motor switch at 4A needs to close. It would be unusual for the reset path to get stuck on though, because it requires all three of those switches to be stuck closed, and the motor 4A switch is shared with the 1's score reel reset. What exactly is buzzing?

Quoted from TopMoose:

4. The blue pop bumpers don't fire. I can trigger them manually with the Bumper relay, but the ball won't trigger them. I remember this being a problem in the test games while making the deal. I'm sure I'll need to replace the coils,

Coils are hardly ever the answer. If the pop bumpers fire when manually activating the relay, then the coils are fine. But does the D relay energize when either pop bumper spoon switch is closed? It's a pretty simple circuit, so check the spoon switches, the path to D, the connection at D, and the D relay coil itself.

Quoted from TopMoose:

5. Some of the bulb sockets are loose, causing the lights to flicker when bumped or not light at all. Is there an easy fix for that, aside from replacing the socket?

Some folks like to put a solder bridge on the base of the bulb socket, where the canister portion is able to spin (there are several write-ups on this available). It's about as easy to replace the socket though, and a new socket looks better.

Quoted from TopMoose:

6. The flipper coils are buzzy and I know they'll need to be replaced.

It's often not the coils (coils get blamed for a lot of stuff, but think of them as the last resort; they're much more robust than that, unless obviously melted).

Flipper buzzing is basically the plunger and coil stop not meeting up with a smooth, even alignment, and the hold portion of the flipper coil winding having micro fluctuation due to being on AC (as is the whole game). If the plunger end is worn, the coil stop is worn, and/or the coil stop not aligned well with where the plunger hits it, it will buzz. It gets worse if the return spring has too much tension on the pawl, because the hold has to work harder against it. And, it can also be a tired coil, as the hold portion loses strength. Since flippers are such an important part of the game, this is where investing in the parts to do a flipper rebuild are worthwhile (new bushings, linkages, plungers, coils, sleeves, coil stops, return spring, and maybe pawls if there's any wear).

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Can you explain what you mean by "booting up"? Is that just turning it on, or trying to start a game? (I don't think of EMs has "booting", since there's no CPU in them.)
Will answer more tomorrow.

Sorry - I'm trying to apply digital terminology to an analog machine. By "booting up" I meant turning on the power switch on the underside of the cabinet.

I'll have another look at everything this evening with your recommendations - thanks!

In the mean time, how does one determine if a coil is burned out? What setting should I use on my multimeter and what kind of reading should I look for?

#6 3 years ago

Put your meter on regular resistance setting and meter the coil. Check its resistance against this chart:

https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

It should be close to the values given there. If the exact coil isn't listed, look for a similar one in gauge and number of turns and it should be pretty much the same since wire resistance is a pretty steady value. For best results, it's probably good to have the coil out of circuit.

#7 3 years ago

The challenge with Gottlieb coils is that the gauge and winds are not given, since Gottlieb used a part number with no particular meaning.

So another comparison source is here too:
http://www.pinballmedic.net/coil_chart.html

#8 3 years ago

Oh, that's a good page. Thanks for that!

#9 3 years ago

I was able to check some things out tonight and here's where we stand:

1. Wasn't a problem after all. Moving on...

2. I had another look at the trough switch, filed it, and now the ball count unit is now working! Unfortunately, it gets stuck on ball 5 and won't advance to "game over."

3 & 4 are related. When I hit the pop bumpers, the Pop Bumper Relay locks on, which causes the 10 Point Relay to lock on, which causes the Tens reel to go nuts. I haven't figured out what's causing the Pop Relay to lock. Any ideas where to look?

5. Haven't looked into it. I'll see how solder works, but will probably replace the worst sockets.

6. The links and plungers are really loose - a rebuild kit is on my list and new coils couldn't hurt while I'm in there.

#10 3 years ago

A day of tinkering has yielded a few good things, but a few problems persist:

I figured out the pop bumper and tens relay problems, but it still won't end a game. The whole path checks out and the XB relay trips during tilt mode, just not after ball 5 is drained.

To add to the mystery, I switched the setting to 3-ball play and it still counted up to five balls and wouldn't end the game. That makes me think the problem is in the ball count unit, but advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

To add to the mystery, I switched the setting to 3-ball play and it still counted up to five balls and wouldn't end the game. That makes me think the problem is in the ball count unit, but advice would be appreciated

You are right. The Ball Count unit is most likely the problem. From out of adjustment, wires broken off, the switch stack on the backside could be out of adjustment. The last Gottlieb I bought had the rotating part attached 180 degrees off.

#12 3 years ago

Update: things look pretty much under control now!

It turns out games weren't ending because one of the switches on the O relay wasn't making contact. Now I'm enjoying five-ball games and the match feature!

The tens reel wasn't resetting because the wire lever inside the wheel didn't retract into its valley in Zero position to close the reset switch. After loosening the spring and bending the wire up a bit it works fine!

I think all that's left to do now is refurbish the flippers, replace a few bulb sockets and maybe get some more powerful pop coils. Thanks to everyone for the guidance!

1 month later
#13 3 years ago

I have one more difficult issue to resolve. Once you spell FLYING CARPET, the R and Y switches should light for Special, alternating with each 1-point bumper hit.

On my machine, the knocker locks on when the R is lit and won't release until a 1-point bumper is hit, switching the Special over to Y switches. What I've discovered is that:

- The knocker locks on because the Add Replay coil is locked on.
- The Add Replay locks on because the Y (Replay) relay is locked on.
- The Y relay is triggered by the A (Alternating) relay.
- the A relay is triggered by the 0-9 Unit. I can lift the "fingers" off the rivets and all the locked coils release.

That 's where I lose track - what's causing the 0-9 Unit to do that? Contacts have been checked, filed and re-gapped. I've been following the schematic as best I can. Please let me know where to check next or if I missed something. Thanks!

#14 3 years ago

In this case, the 0-9 unit isn't the actual cause, it's just doing its job in activating the Alternating relay, and the Alternating relay is doing its job in activating the 'R' rollover/target path for Special.

The real culprit is going to be in the 'R' rollover/target path. There's a make/make switch for the 'R' target, and normally open 'R' rollover switch. One of them is stuck closed (or the backing blade between the switch blades is bent, shorting them closed, or the back tabs are bent, etc.). Often it's going to be the make/make switch on the standup target, and the one in front is stuck closed.

You'll find this path on the schematic right above the 'Y' relay, via the normally open '13' switch. This switch closes when the name sequence is completed, and when the Alternating relay energizes to allow the path from 'R' to work, the stuck switch there keeps the 'Y' relay energized. When you cause the Alternating relay to de-energize, it switches back to the 'Y' target path and avoids the issue.

#15 3 years ago

Once again I've completely overthought the problem - you're absolutely right, a backing blade was shorting the rollover. I bent it up a tiny bit and now everything is perfect!

On the plus side, I'm getting better at reading schematics and learning about EM logic.

My next project is upgrading the flippers. Is there a trick to removing the roll pins in the links or do I just need to get that $8 tool from PBR?

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

Once again I've completely overthought the problem - you're absolutely right, a backing blade was shorting the rollover. I bent it up a tiny bit and now everything is perfect!
On the plus side, I'm getting better at reading schematics and learning about EM logic.
My next project is upgrading the flippers. Is there a trick to removing the roll pins in the links or do I just need to get that $8 tool from PBR?

or buy the plunger/links already assembled from PBR, time saver for sure.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

or buy the plunger/links already assembled from PBR, time saver for sure.

Got those, but I need to get the links off the cams to install them.

#18 3 years ago

I use a very high-tech method to extract those roll pins. I cradle the plunger in a slightly open bench vise (so there's a gap just large enough for the roll pin to fit down into), and then I gently tap it far enough out so that the linkage can be removed. I use an old nail with the tip cut off that it is the same diameter of the roll pin. I make sure not to take the roll pin all the way out, so it's easier to put the new links in.

#19 3 years ago

You can usually find a 1/8" punch at Sears or the big box stores for about $5.

You can probably get a set of punchs at Harbor Freight for $5.

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