Let's figure out the minimum parts to build a whitewood


By Aurich

2 years ago


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    #8 2 years ago

    I have been keen to do this myself and probably going the more complex route but will potentially be alot easier for others. I am making 3D models of all the parts so you visually can move things around and see if things will work, have room or not. I have finished the cabinet so I can make a flat pack from and now gearing up to make the models of many of the playfield parts.

    I just had a heap of inserts arrive in the last week to start modelling.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I'm currently at this stage with Spaceballs. I'm finding that there aren't a whole lot of dimensional drawings of pinball parts out there, so I'm having to buy/borrow them and actually measure them and put them into a CAD program.
    I'd probably buy a hooker for someone if they magically had a 3d model of a blank playfield laying around, with all of the slingshot, shooter lane, flipper, etc... geometry figured out.
    I am literally sitting here right now digitizing a model of the 3-bank motorized drop target assembly from BK2K that BadBrick was nice enough to take out of his machine and let me borrow.
    I also ordered a bunch of inserts that just arrived this week. I'm going to 3D print router guides and test assemblies. I'll make those models public if anyone wants them.

    like this still have to model the underneath mechs but using 2005 solidworks on a mac but their are other free programs to design with.

    Playfield - 27-2-14.jpg

    maybe you can help me with the programming wolf marsh and we can file share.

    here is the cabinet almost done.

    Screenshot 2.pngScreenshot.jpg

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Yes! Just like that. Linoleum is hooking me up with some stuff as well, but I'll gladly take more if you are willing to share! Let me know via PM.
    I can definitely help with programming. The spaceballs board set looks like its going to cost about $140 to make, so that's another option as well.
    My christmas break started yesterday, so now I'm into my heavy winter project season. Let the fun begin.

    what program are you using as sharing does get challenging when some use inventor and others solid works etc. Happy to help and keen for 2015 to be the year to get a white wood flipping as well.

    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    If anyone wants to set up a drop box or something, I would happily dump a folder of solidworks pinball crap into it in exchange for other solidworks pinball crap haha.

    This is a good idea, are you able to save them as a 2005 solid works file?

    #35 2 years ago

    My biggest handbrake is programming and just wish a basic system was out there with the initial program available with hit start button, load ball, flippers, slings, pops and targets was already programmed in and you just assigned a number to link with your wiring. I have stalled for over a year because I did not want to have a pinball sitting there unable to flip.

    But I also know that once you dive in a lot can be learned.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    Design and rules programming is easy and fun. Finishing and polishing is tedious and hard. Just having a flipping whitewood and rules does not make a complete table, though it does make a fun one-of-a-kind toy

    I agree but it's a start and comforting to at least test the shots. Everyone is different where I find 3d cad fun and easy where others wouldn't.

    But agree it would be fun to have a small resource group to share and help others get through the areas they don't know.

    cad, programming, vector and you have a small design team.

    #66 2 years ago

    cool playfield bracket

    also will you be selling project kits in the future - nice test module

    #69 2 years ago

    looks great Aaron, that finished playfield looks very fathomish - top idea with the bracket / stand

    the power supply kit would be cool to go with the flipperable playfield as well as a basic program ready to fire up. I would be in.

    #108 2 years ago

    nice work Linolium - this will help kit development and getting people started.

    what lane guides are you using there?

    #109 2 years ago

    here is a cnc specially for Aurich as it is programmed using vector files from corel and illustrator.

    https://www.inventables.com/technologies/desktop-3d-carving-cnc-mill-kit-shapeoko-2

    you would have to do a few passes for cut outs but a way you can do what you like at your own speed.

    #113 2 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    Right now my own custom metal ones, but I'd modify the design slightly to use the WPC plastic guides you can get from pinball life and such. I should probably do that anyways at this point.

    no worries, I just thought to check as they weren't in the kit but reckon if you standardized it then people can get what ever colour from pinball life.

    nice work and I think it is great value, if postage wasn't a issue I would be straight on to it.

    #131 2 years ago

    Tried to load up a couple of solid works files for people to start playing with, but we will have to get Robin to allow a Solidworks part and assembly drawing files.

    any one can download the free eDrawing program to check out the solid works file, in which you can get dimensions from, rotate, section etc.

    http://www.edrawingsviewer.com

    With the lane guide I drew up and then 3d printed to check curves etc.

    flipper bat.pngstar post.pnglane guide.png

    I also agree, importing stl's and similar are a pain - I just have resorted to planning on drawing everything.

    #159 2 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    I'm not even sure that counts as a "wrong" way to use Illustrator. I mean, I'm sure dedicated CAD packages can do things much easier, but laying out a playfield design as a 2D vector illustration feels totally natural to me.
    I'd like to learn CAD software, but there's only so many free hours in the day, any time savings I'd see from CAD tools would be massively offset by the time to learn them.
    I might put some time into learning some new illustration software instead though, because I'm eying a Wacom Cintiq or one of the Chinese competitors.
    If I really go nuts I'll start learning Python. I'm not a serious programmer, but I can code, so I might be able to fake my way through setting up game rules.

    I have illustrator CS3 just for a bit of fun on my computer to learn the art side and it can export dxf / drg which can be imported to a laser machinist which they might have to do a little bit of cleanup. I designed all my lettering for the AC/DC Bell mod and a few others in illustrator and then exported as a dxf and I could quickly import to solidworks or draftsight (which is a free 2D cad program that I also use for laser file prep).

    You are very skilled in the art software so you will be surprised how much you can do. Once you do a design, save a second version and then remove all the fill and make all the lines that you want cut ultra thin. With stuff like wording expand and ungroup. There will be a little bit of work for the laser machinist as he will have to polyline the curves / features so the cutting path flows but very doable as I take logos from illustrator to cad software or to laser software and cut from it often. When I export my next DXF in the next week I will screen shot the best settings and place them up hear, as it has been an experiment identifying what works and what causes alot of work (some settings messy with the look and make letting jaggered).

    #288 2 years ago

    I have possibly a good solution to the shooter lane groove, waiting for the models to finish and will post soon

    12
    #292 2 years ago

    here is a possible solution for the shooter lane, simply route out a pocket out of the playfield and install a 3D printed shooter lane insert. The insert is 1" wide x 6" long x a fraction over 1/4" thick - with a tapering scallop channel to centre the ball. You can print any colour to suit your purpose or simply replace to freshen up the shooter lane.

    I haven't worked out the drop box thing yet, but here is a link to my shapeways store with the STL available as a free download for those wanting to try it out or for those that don't have a 3D printer you can get it through shapeways.

    https://www.shapeways.com/model/2979735/pinball-shooter-lane-insert.html?li=aeTabs

    to reduce the printing everything has a 2mm wall and the design is held down with 4 countersunk screws. If you think anything needs to change let me know and I will make the changes.

    EDIT - removed the free download from the shapeways link but added it to my thingiverse download page
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:608164

    shooter lane insert.pngshooter lane insert underneath.pngshooter lane insert assembly.png

    #294 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Make it translucent and light it with flashers when the ball launches.

    ooooh that would be cool as well.

    edit
    I opened up the frosted and transparent (cloudy though) options with shapeways - sorry shapeways charges more for this material.

    this would be cool for a lit insert underneath or rgb strip.... mmmmm

    #298 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    that's not a half bad idea (also makes it replaceable when it wears), but it still requires you to route out a pocket in your design to a specific depth with a router. If you make it the same thickness as the playfield, it would only require you to handcut a pocket (could just use a jigsaw). When I made my whitewood, the one thing I cringed at was making that shooter lane. I basically started with a light plunge (using a ruler to guide me), and ran my line.. Plunged a little more, ran the same path stopping short, little more plunge.. until I had my shape fairly close. Then came back with sandpaper to smooth out the jagged steps.

    problem with that is that if you have a auto plunger mech it needs to fasten around this area and then you have other problems. The recess in the back of the shooter lane insert allows for mech screws etc and just to reduce the print volume.

    pocketing isn't a big issue just make a template and set the depth and away you go.

    a tapered shooter lane is a pain in the arse, this at least removes that drama.

    #309 2 years ago
    Quoted from GetTheJackpot:

    As far as replacing the lane is concerned, you would need to make an allowance in the size of the insert slot for the clear coating of the playfield.

    I factored the insert to be 6.7mm and then the recess cut 7mm, but obvious 3d printers can vary around 0.2mm when fine tuned so I would recommend printing the part and then cutting the recess to suit. Even if it sat flush and once cleared the insert sat slightly highly so the ball wouldn't damage the edge of the playfield.

    #316 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Yes please. Make it solid and I'll even print a couple in different colors and post pics.

    I will do a solid one but may have to wait 2 days as Santa has been and kids are excited

    #320 2 years ago

    squeezed in 10 minutes to do a 2nd version of the shooter lane insert that is solid underneath (no recess) as well as adding a solidworks version of the solid insert so people can work out my dimensions to adjust the playfield routed out section.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:608164/#files

    look forward to seeing if anyone makes them.

    have fun and merry christmas

    #350 2 years ago

    with the shooter lane insert I designed it with random sized countersunk screw holes but if you want the groove to go deeper and longer the middle holes will need to moved so the 2 features do not intersect. I am not ready for any testing so those trying let me know and I will tweak the design.

    Also the hollow / recessed version might suit the lighting feature better, as depending on the percentage of fill you will see the hexagon fill features on a solid version ????

    #354 2 years ago

    Hey Wolfmarsh

    Aurich is correct, hard to route to a point so added a nice flowing curve to suit the width.

    Do you want me to shorten for you. I was just rounding the design to 1inch wide x 6inches long so the Radius is 1/2" on the end curve to suit pinball's imperial design. I prefer mm but I can do a 1'' x 5 7/8" long so 25.4mm x 145.65mm. I can also just have 1/4" corners. You guys tell me and I will modify for you - no problems.

    I am heading out for a surf and when I come back I will tweak what ever you request and post up to thingiverse another option.

    #358 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    No, don't modify the model yet. I swear I had some kind of stroke or something this morning. Having family in town for the holidays turned my brain into mush.
    I'll let you know how these next few prints come out. I'm messing with print orientation and infill to get a few samples of different styles. I'm going to print out a "light box" that I can lay them on to test different lighting effects as well. Now that 75% of the visiting family is out of the house, hopefully my brain goes back to normal.

    what is your print bed size?

    just let me know and can adjust to suit the masses.

    #372 2 years ago

    I would be cool with Spooky using the shooter lane inserts

    I thought I added a solid works file the other day to the thingiverse item but just did 2 copies of the solid version stl - so removed one of the STL's and added a solid works version as well as the dimensioning to give people a better idea of the sizing (also attached here).

    Shooter Lane Insert Dimenions.jpg
    #373 2 years ago

    Just added a 5.5inch long version for you Wolfmarsh - reducing the overall length 1/2 inch and moving the 2 holes near the rounded end down by 1/2 inch - hope it helps.

    #376 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Thanks swinks. I'm gonna give the 5.5" one a few prints as well.
    I uploaded the light box I made to test lighting effects with, for the 6 inch version. I'll do one for the 5.5 inch and upload it as well. I linked it as a remix/inspired by to your shooter lane model.
    I've got a spool of crystal clear filament on the way, as well as some other translucent colors, so I can test lighting with that as well.
    I'm sitting here working on a PCB to send to OSHPark that would slip under the hollow version. I was going to do 9 RGB leds. 1 under the rounded tip, then 4 running down each side. Added a small atmel microcontroller to make it easier to tinker with.
    So far I've got 2 solids and 2 hollows printed, a set of each in white ABS and translucent orange PLA. Also got one of the lightboxes printed.

    sounds cool, interested in one of those kits when you get it up and running

    18
    #382 2 years ago

    here is a concept for people to consider for proto-typing a playfield or permanently using....

    Here is a concept for locating and fastening the various stainless steel ball guides around a pinball playfield. The concept is that you have your various lengths of stainless steel strips that are 1.2-1.3mm thick cut to 7/8" or 22.225mm high by what ever length so it slides into the gaps of the post and then fasten the post down into location. The post holds the stainless steel guide 1/8 inch up off the playfield allowing for light to pass under. The post is 27.4mm which is equal to a regular playfield post so it will fit under any plastics.

    The post is double sided so you can run 2 stainless steel strips close together with one post if you wish. One side is filleted a fraction more to allow the stainless steel strip to be curved when passing through.

    This post allows anyone to locate the stainless steel strips without needing to perform welding or riveting. Simply screw down from the top side with no need for L brackets etc.

    I designed and uploaded so a few people could progress on their project and currently I am not ready to test so please let me know if you think their should be any changes after test printing (3D Printing).

    here is the link for a free download
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:614197

    I will also upload to shape ways for those without a printer to order for your project.

    Ball Guide Post.jpg Ball Guide Post 2.jpg Ball Guide Post Base.jpg
    #394 2 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Very cool! Hadn't thought about holding ball guides, but I've been working on some similar 3D parts this weekend for building wireforms without welding:
    I have to pick up some rod to work out the fit and squeeze to make these work (and they need to look cooler as well ) but I'm hoping to shortcut ramp construction a lot. Will probably make some 45° and 90° pieces too so I don't have to bend so much wire...

    great idea, been a great thread for developing ideas.

    #395 2 years ago

    Edit 30-12-14 - I added a part A & B STL files so if you don't want to deal with supports and cleanup you can use the assembled version.

    Part A&B Asm.jpg

    #415 2 years ago

    I used to build cnc router, laser and plasma machines - lasers are so cool. Aluminium has a low melting point so creates a reflective surface, basically a molten bubble and starts to refract the cutting laser beam. If a company has a big enough laser they can laser cut aluminium but water is better for aluminium. If a laser operator knows his stuff he can get the speed and air / gas mix just right so you can achieve nice clean edges and no clean up. Don't be fooled by a crappy cut.

    Tip - For anyone design something for laser cutting - if possible allow a small radius (even 0.25mm) at corners as this speeds up a cutting job and removes risk of metal dags and heat marks because the laser beam reaches a corner, pauses for a fraction of a moment, often maintains the beam intensity and then goes along the next path, where if a radius is present the laser just keeps flowing around the path.

    Often a company has not experimented with gases for cutting (compressed air, co2 etc). We had had to cut thin titanium sheet to make surgical heart clips and this metal is tough to cut but we learnt if we made the tray almost water proof and we used argon gas to cut with had perfectly cut material, no dags, zero cleanup though the client still tumbled with a special sterilised equipment. Bascially the argon is heavy and fills the tray and then removes all oxygen and a perfect environment for titanium. So materials like spring steel can be cut perfectly the operator just needs to have the right settings and gas. Also for glossy edges on arcylic we learnt that if we took a laser cutting tip and drilled a tiny hole in the side and cranked up the compressed air as the assist gas the edges of the cut acrylic looked like they were flamed - perfect finish.

    Sorry for the education session just it helps you get good results from your cutter.

    #417 2 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Luckily no sharp corners required! Thanks for the advice though. I'll need a decent amount cut, probably enough to offset setup costs.

    If you design a file and issue it as a dxf with room for lead ins and outs - which is a laser function which places a 1/4 of a radius leading in and out to holes and edges so the initial pierce is away from the finished edges so you job will be perfect. Often a laser operator cuts the file you issue them or draws up what they believe you need. ALWAYS tell them to cut with leads and outs. You can tell a job does not use a lead in or out as it has a bit of a blue mark or blowout mark on thicker material on the edge.

    If you tell them this then they they think you know what you are talking about.

    Also learn about polylines for laser cutting as take a rectangle with a radius on each corner. If you draw a rectangle and then apply a radius on each corner the shape instantly becomes 8 drawn segments. These 8 segments will be cut indiviually or the operator will charge you to join them. If you draw the shape and convert the shape to a polyline it now is one line and reduces the setup cost.

    #418 2 years ago

    one more tip check out this file which I am sure some will be interested in

    - find out what size the material is cut from - in this case 4 foot by 8 foot sheet of 0.9mm Mirror Stainless Steel
    - I like to lay the design out with a 5-10mm gap between parts to ensure minimum scratching and room for piercing.
    - In this case I have 2 different designs so I put them on different layers so the operator can turn notation layers off or a specific job off if I only want certain parts cut (which is rare)
    - have a notation layer with important notes with even a note to turn that layer off. Then they can't say they weren't told.
    - make sure when you issue them a file to make sure you have all the layers on but tell them to only keep the cutting layer on, as well issue them a pdf version of what the file looks like.
    - save the cutting file as a dxf file as a old version of cad R12 or R13 then every laser machine out there can except it.

    hope this helps.

    Bally:WMS:Stern MIRRORS V3 Laser.png
    #421 2 years ago

    I have drawn up (ball guide dxf ready for the laser cutter) and added some generic ball guides to help people get some custom pins up and running.

    - 2 x 200mm, 400mm, 600mm, 800mm, 1200mm - 7/8inch high to suit the posts on this thingi
    - 2 x 150mm, 250mm, 350mm with lugs for mounting on top of dividing timber pieces (the fold line is right next to the main ball guide) - the ball guide section is 1" high.
    - 2 x 150mm, 250mm, 350mm with lugs that are for mounting directly to the playfield (the fold line is approx 4mm from the ball guide - the ball guide section is 7/8' high.

    Note: make sure the fold lines are turned off when laser cutting.

    The sizing was taken from a Williams Congo. These are just an aid and the shapes are not made into polylines or have no radii on the corners so if you require those please perform yourself. These should fit onto a 2 x 4 foot 1.2-1.3mm sheet of SS (preferably brushed or mirror). Therefore you can get 4 of these sets onto a 4 x 8 foot sheet of material.

    screen-capture-6.png

    #444 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Hey swinks, I've been printing a bunch of these to mess with, really good stuff!
    I also printed a 1mm thick strip of ABS to use as a temporary guide instead of the steel. It is thin enough to bend, but thick enough to mess with a ball a little (it's probably not very durable).
    One thing that would be helpful would be to have another ball guide model, elongated in the direction of the pocket for the guide. Say 5mm wider, so there is room to butt two of these guide strips up to each other, in order to join them into a longer strip. Does that make sense?

    cool wolfmarsh

    yeah pretty sure I understand you, I design it up today / tonight for you and post back here

    #464 2 years ago

    I agree with others that this is a cool thread and how it is great that it is turning it a thread of various parts on offer, advice, templates etc. and not be a specific product though I don't see an issue on discussion of product comparison as it helps the potential builders decide which way to go.

    For me I have been on the p-roc forum as a semi active member and Gerry has some great products but my stumbling block is programming and when you read that you need to load all these various components to be able to programme it scared me away. Not sure if FAST Pinball's will approach it differently but it would be cool if one of the product developers could have a product that could be wired in and when it came to programming just one simple programme was loaded on your computer that came with a basic library of code built in. As for the programming it would then be cool if a basic programme was supplied with a bunch of features that you can then just assign your solenoids, switches and globes to predetermined numbers (in the code). Then the basics already be installed and activated so it knows how to do a ball search, flippers, pops and slings all up and running as well as lights 1-40 say etc. So then the programming then really starts at the rules of your theme as the basics are already supplied and pre-installed. This would help so many people could test the shot layout before entering the rules and get a basic machine up and running much more simply and quicker. I know coding is simple for some just like I am comfortable designing the parts and mechs for pinballs but it would be cool if the P-roc / fast products could have a beginners package that could get you up and flipping faster.

    For me I have wanted to build a pin for years but I would struggle if I have to do the whole lot myself so this is great that people are sharing info hence why I am trying to share my bit as well which is why I am offering thingiverse files for free as well as shapeways options for those without printers and laser files - it all helps. No offence to the share drive thing guys but found the thingiverse thing suits me best as I like seeing the data of download numbers and if I update a file I can share why I did that where a drop box is just a file and no attached info. So far 30 people have downloaded the complete version and 11 people the split version so it gets out there quick. I just hope more people get in and share and help each other as it allows everyone to reach new grounds.

    Now can someone help me with my Congo problem ???

    #476 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bonnevil69:

    Really swinks. Did you ask for help before quitting. All the components are installed with the 1 click installer. Make a .yaml file designating all your coils, lights , and switches . Then modify the starter.py. Bam flipping. I can do it in 30 mins now. Including the install time. I have no prior programing experience. My background is construction management of concrete foundations so I'm basically retarded compared to everybody else on here. Lol. But I built a fully working pinball machine from absolute scratch Completely by hand. Well anyways. If you need help just ask.

    I never quit just procrastinated for a while and then decided to start working on models etc. Before buying all the parts I wanted to be comfortable and started reading up and just got a little overwhelmed as have absolute zero program experience. I will see what FAST does and then launch in with one of the products out there. Until then still have alot of models to draw and have fun with.

    #487 2 years ago

    Thanks for the drawing compliment but last I looked admittedly at the wiki was close to a year ago as been busy with models, mods and a daughter that nearly died.

    Everyone has their skills and I prefer the visual approach having used cad and solidworks for many years and working in the mech eng. field. Someone can give me a few photos or sketches and I can get a design close based off very little. I am sure I could get into the code but had a few issues loading other software for programming other things a while ago and just got me frustrated. But I will give it another go soon.

    Each to their own.

    #489 2 years ago

    Update 3 - (1-1-15) - I added a Version 2 of the 2 part post for added grip for linking 2 x SS vertical ball guide strips. The post still has the same 13mm footprint but changing to square as opposed to round increases the clamping surface area to 2 ball guides.ball guide joiner post.png

    #494 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Got a set of four of these printing right now, I even used translucent orange to match your render color.

    Cool, don't know why I chose orange but made it semi transparent so people can see the hidden details.

    #499 2 years ago

    here is a playfield doodle template for people to sketch their ideas on. The playfield, backboard, stiffeners, flippers, lane guides, slingshots, trough hole and rear slider bracket holes are all correct in relation to a early 90's Bally playfield, except for the shooter lane insert.

    just print off and doddle your game ideas knowing the basics are to scale. The image isn't as bad as what is represented in the thread. I will provide a better one straight from the drawing package in about 1-2 weeks.

    I will add more info on to it soon, pop bumpers, certain SS dividers between the out lane and the shooter lane etc.

    playfield doodle.jpg

    #504 2 years ago

    Marco will have a range as well if you can't find what you need from Pinball Life

    #508 2 years ago
    Quoted from BloodyCactus:

    wondering how the shooter lane insert will play with the stern auto ball launcher arm. I need to figure out where that screws in and see maybe if I can make the holes in the same place or not..

    I will soon be working on the autolaunch part of Bally's or a custom designed one with some laser cut files, using generic solenoids, pins and coil sleeves.

    can you post some pics of the Stern version here please.

    #510 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Shouldn't matter, autolaunch is nothing more than a solenoid with a rubber tip. A manual shooter rod should mount at the same height.

    I think BC was considering the mounting location underneath with the reduced playfield thickness there.

    #512 2 years ago

    Due to a couple of requests I started putting the posts on branches on Shapeways to reduce the cost per unit. Branching skirts around the handling costs per job. Hope it helps those that don't have a printer.

    I will do the round posts tomorrow night as a 4 x bundle.

    https://www.shapeways.com/search?q=ball+guide+post

    #514 2 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    After hitting the wall mentally when trying to put pen to paper, it all cleared up in the haze that comes from hitting the snooze button. This morning the big picture of what I want to do hit me like you wouldn't believe.
    Is there an .igs of a playfield in this condition? Just the board, not the slings and whatnot, just to have that bare bones start.

    I will provide the playfield in some sort of CAD supported file once I nut out the apron & slingshot hole placement and I will also put on there the pop bumper hole template - give me a few weeks as have a few other projects to finish up.

    Seperate note: the 4 x bundle of the round posts are now up at shapeways for those needing / wanting them that don't have a 3D printer.

    #528 2 years ago

    I have a question about power.

    What is a readily good available power supply to cope with the flippers coils right down to lighting.

    Please share what you are using and any links.

    Cheers

    #538 2 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    A BIIIIIIIIIIIIIG thanks to swinks for sending me the B/W lane guide part!
    Any of you who may have been considering getting a pre-cut template should be happy to know my measurements are now up to date barring one more double check for the hanger locations.
    I'm going to do a test cut within the next couple weeks.
    I'll also make a cut that uses his plunger-lane printable part.

    Template Update.jpg 42 KB

    nice work, probably to help others this layout is based on the later bally / wms very similar to the congo - wpc95 games.

    I will have a look over the weekend but I know on my congo the service brackets use the up most sling shot post and then one of the hanger bracket holes I think I will have to check. The playfield I am modelling from is a creature playfield so the the service brackets are different design as well as the hanger brackets.

    I have a spare set of the wpc-95 service brackets and will model up.

    Are your playfields going to have the rear pivot brackets holes in it?

    #554 2 years ago
    Quoted from LapsedGamer:

    Got all my parts in, do these star posts typically use a nut under the playfield or are they just held into the wood by syncing a screw?

    go the t nuts in high impact areas (direct hit of on coming ball at speed) like the 2 outward facing star posts on the sling shot and then a self tapping screw for the rear fastening point. This is typical on the bally / wms playfields

    #555 2 years ago
    Quoted from fastpinball:

    I am not sure what they have planned with the talks regarding filming. We were a late addition so I told them we didn't need anything special. I didn't want us to be a burden during their first show!
    In other news, we are still getting the new workspace setup down here in Gig Harbor. When we are all situated and the pinball arcade on the lower floor is setup we will do an open house. Probably in mid/late February.
    I'll try to post some pics later tonight of the space, in progress. Off now to pickup a shipment of parts that went to my house and then to get to populating a small set of the new hardware for testing and their photoshoot. Stooooooooked!
    Aaron
    FAST Pinball

    sounds awesome, look forward to checking photos etc..

    #559 2 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Is there a standard center-center spacing for pops?
    pinballmakers is currently blocked at work, probably because it is so new. Hopefully that will change at some point, but who knows. I keep forgetting to check it out at home. I hope to contribute some models of bits and pieces at some point, unless those all exist somewhere already.

    I will make a template in the next few days of a cluster of 3 pops based on a creature with all the hole centres etc.

    #560 2 years ago

    I have learnt alot just from modelling pinball parts in regards to designing and layouts:

    - spacing between flipper posts is reportedly about 7" average, with CFTBL being 7 1/8" and WW being 6 3/4"
    - the spacing of the flippers is first of all a designers choice but the lane guide design selection greatly determines the flipper spacing.
    - If you aim for 1/2" timber playfield strengtheners, 1 1/4" out lanes (draining lanes), between 1 5/16" & 3/8" as well as a 3/8" divider between the rhs outlane and the shooter lane you will have about a 6 3/4" flipper spacing with the Bally plastic outlanes.
    - I will model the sega style moulded plastic lane guides soon and reckon you will get 7" between flipper posts.
    - this gives you about 3mm between the lane guide plastic and the flipper rubber.

    this is only a guide to help people select the right parts

    have fun

    1 week later
    #582 2 years ago
    Quoted from Mocean:

    Too bad there are no templates for lane guides...

    top or bottom ?

    #583 2 years ago

    just some advice about available (dimensioned) files on pinball makers that you really should put a note that "the provided images / drawings may not be entirely accurate - use at your own risk".

    eg. the cabinet and plunger holes ones are copies of drawings I did 2 years ago but in the last 18 months I have redrawn them in 3d and identified a few dimensions that don't quite marry up. I am not going to release them until I complete the full cabinet model with accessories to check everything goes together well and preferably until I build a cabinet to those dimensions. In relation to dimensions I have drawn my models in mm's but have checked all parts and where possibly identified the imperial measurement and used that (but converted to mm's).

    Some of the 3d progress can be seen here by Lachied and myself.
    http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=830.0
    Note: even these models are not entirely accurate hence why I haven't provided an update until finished and proven.

    Unfortunately I have been side tracked by other projects but aim to concentrate in this area soon.

    #603 2 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    That's fair to say, but I guess my point is: from my perspective as a mechanical engineer I feel most of the mechanical construction diy stuff is overkill for me personally, but I recognize that many people do not know about or have those specific skills, so it's great to have some reference info in there targeting pinball diy mechanical stuff as opposed to "go search vacuum forming".
    I personally don't see why a barebones cobbled together flippers/bumpers/scoring coding section is outside the scope of a diy wiki, even if it's simply pseudocode describing how the code works for various items and what steps need to happen to get up and running.
    Either way I'm not passionately for or against, just addressing the topic to pass some time I think everything is trending the right direction regardless of how the coding section ends up turning out.

    I agree with your opinion and even if it was a few code samples in different languages to show people what the difference. With the sample codes some basic explanation as even that may help people in which direct they want to go in.

    #616 2 years ago

    pop bumper drill template added to thingiverse for those wanting to map out parts a little easier.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:650229

    playfield.pngPop Bumper centre holes.pngPop Bumper Template.png

    #619 2 years ago

    ecurtz is correct, the template is based on a dmd pop assembly as a guide.

    #620 2 years ago

    does anyone want a slingshot template ?

    #624 2 years ago

    2 return lane guides are readily available:

    Williams / Bally - will allow about a 6 3/4 inch spacing between flipper pivot posts

    Stern / Sega - will allow about a 7 inch spacing between flipper pivot posts.

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&mode=search&search_in=all&search_str=return+lane+guide

    #627 2 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    Is the hole spacing actually different or are the Stern ones just skinnier?

    if you are asking about the return lane guides, they are a little skinner. It is the alternative to what stern use on alot of machines with wires ones and then a SS plate at the lead in to the flipper.

    #628 2 years ago

    thanks for sharing the code with us BC, helps us people with no experience to see samples and which one we should go.

    maybe for the pinball makers website, if people with code experience can load up say the same start up program in the different languages so us newbies can see which one to consider.

    #630 2 years ago

    This is another template to help as an aid those creating a custom pin that are ahead of me in the build. The slingshot measurements were based off a CFTBL playfield and I have not made a playfield yet to test so use with caution and please let me know if there are any issues though I believe it will be very close.

    If you are using the williams / bally return lane guides say from Pinball Life the general dimensions can be found here of where to locate items in reference to the flippers. Using these return lane guides along with other components will mean you will have to space the flipper post holes 6 3/4inch apart for everything to fit across the playfield. Using the Stern / Sega return lane guides may allow you to get 7 inches between flipper posts.

    The template will have a 90 degree corner, therefore use the bottom flat piece to be parallel with the bottom of the playfield and like wise for the vertical section to be parallel with the side of the playfield.

    I learnt a lot in this process and doubt any 2 games are exactly the same in the way of the overall sling shot plastic size. On measuring a few playfields what is consistent is the dimension from the bottom post hole of the plastic to the switch hole and then to the next switch holes with the kicker arm slot pretty much in the middle those varies 0.5mm. The kicker arm hole appears to be a few degrees kicked so when kicking a ball the ball would kicker higher I am assuming. The dimensions for the remainder of the design is merely my design and doing a practical layout before I tweak to suit game play. Slingshot assemblies will vary in length up the playfield and to the side as will the globe holes but ensure the switch brackets underneath can be mounted.

    I hope the info helps and please share with me any tips.

    You will notice a overall lower playfield layout to show you general dimensions of parts and for you to consider spacing.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:651372

    Screenshot1.pnglower playfield dimensions.jpgtop of playfield.jpgbottom of playfield.jpg

    1 month later
    #710 2 years ago

    head to draftsight for free 2d cad software for another alternative.

    #716 2 years ago
    Quoted from fastpinball:

    Crap I gotta put my playfield back together with the latest FAST hardware so I can post a vid! That's my weekend goal now. Aurich, hold me accountable brother!
    Aaron
    FAST Pinball

    how did you go?

    1 week later
    #727 2 years ago
    Quoted from MarkInc:

    Making some progress on my playfield. About 60 inserts in place - cut by hand with router and forstner drill bit. Here's a pic of it with the blueprint overlayed.

    image.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

    it has some interesting features - nice work, is the a flipper in the very top centre for the playfield level or for a extra higher playfield? or a gate for a top ramp?

    1 month later
    #765 2 years ago

    I suppose it depends if you want the ball to bear on 1 point or 2 points. A regular ball is 1 1/16" so if the trough was cut with a 1 1/16" or larger bit the ball will always rest on one point only, but the bigger the bit the more the ball will effectively rock around a little. Having a 1" inch cut in theory will direct the ball to the centre of the v-groove but bear on 2 points of the ball at the top of the playfield cut which in effect the groove depth isn't doing a lot but looking nice and steading the ball to shoot up the centre.

    That's how I see it anyway - hope that helps

    here is a sketch of a 1 1/16" ball in a 1 1/8" v groove.
    ball trough.png

    here is a example of a 1 1/16" ball in a 1" v groove
    ball trough 1inch.png

    #778 2 years ago

    I wanted to actually do this so will in the near future do a template of WMS plastic and post with a stern mech.

    #780 2 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Swinks, FYI I used your 3D printed sling templates. Cool idea and they worked awesome. Thanks for those - on to the pop bumpers!

    great to hear

    #799 2 years ago

    Could graphics be applied using printed rice paper and then sealed with a clear coat?

    I was checking out a mates surfboard last week and he showed me the logo that he applied under the fibreglass work. He printed a coloured design on to rice paper and then glassed over the rice paper and the printed design and the rice paper could no longer be seen. I am curious if this same approach could be done for possible playfield repairs but more curious for a one off designed playfield. This would be alot cheaper than trying to get a playfield screened and have not heard of anyone in Australia doing direct printing.

    Was thinking:
    1. cut the playfield out and install inserts and apply a white coat to all areas of graphics to be applied maybe using a cut mask and then a clear coat ?.
    2. get a full design printed on rice paper and resin over sealing the art to the playfield
    3. possible apply one coat of glass over the art ??
    4. apply a few coats of clear ????

    found this on the net and the art printing could be a cheap alternative for those one off's
    http://www.boardlams.com/products/your-board-logos-design

    here is a example on a surfboard, lining up spot on probably would need 2 people
    » YouTube video

    Has anyone tried this, any thoughts from anyone or those who are experienced surfboard makers

    #802 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Most people do vinyl sticker overlays. Either you cut out the inserts and print an opaque label, or you print a clear label but paint the wood white (since most printers won't print white). It's done all of the time:
    http://pinballmagic.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=6&chapter=0

    I am aware of that technique but heard bad things if you try to clear over it, where resin goes through the rice paper makes it all one

    Quoted from vid1900:

    That's a cool video, but why the hell did he leave that black stripe running through the center of the graphic?????

    that would be the stringer which adds strength to the foam board core.

    #804 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I would have painted it white than have a hockey player with a black stripe down his face, lol.

    Good point but surfers see past it I suppose, I didn't notice it because it is a everyday thing but you picked it up

    #816 2 years ago

    like what Linolium said check out the new KISS pinball with the flippers more to the right and a wire separating the right outlane and the plunger lane

    1 week later
    #835 2 years ago

    nice work ecurtz

    #852 2 years ago

    great idea Wolfmarsh

    you could go a v shaped bracket to locate the playfield sections

    #870 2 years ago

    Just be aware that MDF has some health risks, as the glues used to bind all the particles commonly contains formaldehyde.

    1 week later
    #881 2 years ago

    I checked my 3 games and all of them as I got them have the ball just sitting on the tip of the shooter rod maybe a few mm's - 2-3mm / 1/8 inch so when you pull back the rod the ball rests on the 2 prongs and then the rod hits the ball with full force. Would of thought if the ball sat forward of the rod on the 2 prongs the plunger loses some energy before hit as the rod has to extend past the rest point to hit the ball.

    But I can see your point being important especially for a autolaunch mech having the mech lined up with the ball as 3mm / 1/8inch away would mean loss of energy if the ball wasn't resting on the autolaunch arm prongs.

    2 weeks later
    #910 2 years ago

    I had this thought a few years ago but then thought about some of the mechs and their placement in reference to the playfield surface so either thinner playfield or extra routing or new designed parts for like flipper, sling shot pop bumper mechs.

    Acrylic would not be suitable as will crack, polycarbonate is tougher but can't be laser cut and will scratch in time, and within a few years will start to go brittle and yellow.

    I recently saw something else that could be an alternative way to apply graphics as done in the surfboard industry is via printed rice paper then a layer of fibreglass and resin. putting down the rice paper in place would be a little tricky but reckon doable

    1. cut the playfield out and install inserts and apply a white coat to all areas of graphics to be applied maybe using a cut mask and then a clear coat ?.
    2. get a full design printed on rice paper and resin over sealing the art to the playfield
    3. possible apply one coat of glass over the art ??
    4. apply a few coats of clear ????

    found this on the net and the art printing could be a cheap alternative for those one off's
    http://www.boardlams.com/products/your-board-logos-design

    here is a example on a surfboard, lining up spot on probably would need 2 people

    » YouTube video

    Has anyone tried this, any thoughts from anyone or those who are experienced surfboard makers

    » YouTube video

    #912 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I've done a lot of fiberglass and Japanese tissue lay ups, so I have the experience to try, but I don't know anyone that prints on rice paper.

    the link in my post prints for you and is in the US (pretty sure).

    just thinking this could be a cool way to do one off playfield designs, as recently I saw a mates surfboard and he printed an A4 size design in his home printer and applied under the resin and it was sharp and nice colours which then got me thinking for pinball playfields

    pretty sure this is the paper to get for experimenting
    Hahnemuhle Rice Paper 100gsm

    #917 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how the layup would go. You would either have to precut the fiberglass somehow, or do the layup and try to route out the holes afterward.
    Just brainstorming, so this probably could be better, but I would probably do the layup on a clean sheet of plywood with just inserts in it and an uncut sheet of rice paper. I'd let the paper/glass/resin cure completely, then align a CNC by something on the artwork to do the playfield cuts. Then I would probably coat the whole thing with clear after the CNC routing.

    I would tend to agree but to add to this, when I use to build cnc machines and owned a cnc for a while I experimented with different double sided routing techniques, quite often I routed a hole into the item right through in a unseen location and the holes would be in the identical location whether the say playfield was face up or face down. They were cut say when you routed the face up side 1st, then when you went to do the face down side you would ensure the waste board is locked down, place 4 dowels into the waste board into the 4 location jig holes and then load up the playfield in the face down position, home the machine to the start point (corner) of the face up but then load up the face down file and keep the same home position and save it.

    This way with the jobs save, the waste board locked down with dowels you can machine in dimples for screws etc in the face down job as well as load the playfield at a later date in the face up position to re-machine any slots etc giving you a playfield with art, routed again in critical spots and then ready to clear.

    As for the rice paper agree go a full sheet and have some location reference marks, a helper or skilled fibreglasser and resin in place

    #918 2 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    I still think direct to substrate printing of the kind John Greatwich has been doing is the future for short run playfields. You'd want to find a printer that does white so you wouldn't have to go through the extra masking and paint step he does.

    thats great if you could but still not a cheap process and won't help people outside the US / Canada as well,

    with the resin idea the rice paper print is say $60, fibreglass and resin maybe $50 so very feasible for trying

    #933 2 years ago
    Quoted from Star_Gazer:

    think it's clear, but this is what i had in mind.
    01.jpg

    I considered this technique myself in the paste but for mechs and other fixtures to be fastened securely you would have to maintain a similar thickness ply and then for mechs like the flipper, slings ball trough (even the locking t nuts) you would have to custom make some of the components because if you used standard ones they would be sitting lower by the thickness of the plexi. Alternatively you could use thinner ply or router out ply thinner in sections but the screws used to fasten mechs in place would be shorter and lead to issues I believe.

    1 week later
    #949 2 years ago

    great to here Gerry in regards to programming a basic playfield that has that typical look with flashing inserts as that is more encouraging for the beginner to start and get comfortable.

    I also think what P3 is offering is reasonable, yes the initial setup is probably not the cheapest. But if you were to buy this system as like with Heighway it would not be cheap and probably a little more expensive but at least once you have a system you have one major advantage as I understand it, as you can even using the same playfield layout and replace the graphics and rules to create a totally new game which is cool and all it will cost is your time no parts etc. Unlike with Heighways developer model to benefit you have to buy the game (like P3) but to benefit from a new game you would have to buy all the parts, get screen printing done, perform wiring and in the end you don't own the rights as well if you join john's group.

    For me signing legal documents giving my legal rights away was a huge turn off as it was discouraging when I asked questions to help me decide and they couldn't be answered and only would be answered after I sign legal documents. To add the designs were restricted to using Heighway typical parts putting Heighway up there in the same boat as P3 if doing comparisons of you base setup.

    Overall I think what P3 is trying to do is great especially making game design free sharing (of course the owner decides this) but has alot of potential.

    2 weeks later
    #997 2 years ago

    you probably saw it on the proto type timeshock pinball but the ramp entrances on that looked to be 3D printed - probably at shapeways or imaterialise. I will be trying this when the time comes. Also could be a good way that once a design is proven to make a reverse design so you can vacuum form a final ramp.

    to get a better look head to "silver castle pinball" on Facebook as they do a look around the playfield and probably get a look at it from different angles

    3d_printed_ramps.png
    3d_printed_ramps_2.png

    #1011 2 years ago

    hardwood would be the best and the rails would of been imperial, so anything around 12.7mm / 1/2inch in width or a little wider but think 1/2inch hardwood will be fine. Alot of the timbers used in games have the artifical grain timber in black over the timber but just stain it black and clear it and it will look great. The height could vary as depending what posts are used and if plastics fasten to a rail and over to a post - so keep it flat as when angles come into it to will look a little crappy.

    1 week later
    #1053 2 years ago

    well said Brian and nice work with MPF

    and thanks to both Gerry and Aaron for making custom game building possible

    #1062 2 years ago

    kragled... lol

    yes great work with the 3D printer for trial and error stuff.

    #1075 2 years ago

    nice work on the loop da loop ramp trials

    how about a tubular loop da loop with a slot so you can visually see the ball but the ball can not drop out, you could have a switch on the inside in the slot which detects a non full loop da loop shot.

    loop da loop.png

    alternatively how about a loop da loop ramp with a see through thin polycarbonate roof panel for the ramp so the ball can never fly off the ramp but with a strategic switch on the inside top of the loop as per above or a rectangle with a slot in it. If you want a stl file to print and try out the just yell out.

    Screenshot.png

    #1077 2 years ago

    another product which is cool to gain curved surfaces is flexible ply / wobble ply which is 3 - 6mm thick. It has 3-5 layers of ply all running in the same direction but once you glue 2 pieces together it firms up a lot.

    Flexible_Plywood_Desktop_Resolution.jpg

    #1079 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    A more enclosed section may help. I want more than a loop, I'm trying to make the ramp an (S) shape to spell something out (like Guns n Roses by data east did).

    not understanding you sorry, though at the end of the loop you could design in a jump / ramp if that is what you mean...

    #1082 2 years ago

    different approach but same effect but with the flex ply you just buy it as sheet and cut out and have fun, don't need to rely on laser cutting.

    » YouTube video

    I have used the 6mm, 3mm and 1.5mm. The 1.5mm can do 4 inch circles - cool stuff.

    1 week later
    #1093 2 years ago

    here are some of Stern's I think
    http://patents.justia.com/assignee/stern-pinball-inc

    though curious about the one lighting up playfields with leds?

    edit, just did a search and it seems like it has been discussed here on pinside
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-trying-to-drop-a-bombshell-new-patent-application-for-color-changing-leds

    #1099 2 years ago
    Quoted from JackB:

    Bonnevil69's metal work is amazing. His VUK thread build is still my favorite thread as far as pinball construction goes. I hope he's bringing his game to Expo again so I can finally see it in person.
    Anyway. I've hand cut a couple of playfields now and I want to CAD up a version and get it CNC'd, but there are no widebody lower thirds over on the pinball makers site.
    Anyone who is really good at CAD able to help me (and everyone else who wants to do a widebody) out?

    do you have a link to Bonnevil69's thread? curious

    also I haven't done a wide body playfield but you should be able to use most of the geometry but a matter of shuffling some components over to one side or the other and add a pop or extra in lane to the flipper to one of the sides. So you should be able to use those templates but you will need factor 1-2 custom cut inlane guides.

    1 week later
    #1126 2 years ago

    same coil in the knocker as the williams ball launch. mechanical advantage is different which may play some effect in the ball launch speed and then the length of the mech might be a disadvantage depending on your design / placement

    12
    #1127 2 years ago

    I decided to put a quick drawing and spreadsheet together to help others with deciding a lower playfield design option.

    The scenario is using the standard available Bally / Williams return lane guides or the Data East / Sega / Stern return lane guides only.

    Please those with custom pin building experience add to this, correct me if needed

    But if sticking to standard off the shelf parts the lane guides and flipper spacing is what determines a 1 of 6 possible layouts. Flipper spacing choice is between 6 3/4", 6 7/8", 7" and 7 1/8" spacing with the middle 2 being the most common.

    Once you decide what you want with flipper spacing and your preferred return lane guides you can quickly see that section "L" is the critical factor to be adjusted (it's not much but enough to scrap your prototype playfield). And for example option 6 you would have to rely on the divider between the rhs outlane and the plunger lane to be a section of 1.5mm SS. You can tweak the return lanes, outlines and sling shot design a little to try and achieve a certain design but if you want to add a extra return lane on one of the sides Section "F" & "J" would have to be custom return wire lane guides and not the moulded plastic ones readily available. Also I doubt you could have a comfortable spaced lower 1/3 layout with 7" flipper spacing or more with Bally / Williams return lane guides.

    "H" isn't a critical figure - more a result of other figures to aid in determining the width of section "L"

    Sections - D & N as well as A & C would hardly ever change and would remain a constant measurement.

    I hope it helps and my apologies for referencing millimetres but that is my preference for the fine details or you could simply divide by 25.4 to get the imperial size. And this is merely some info to help those wanting to design a game to be able to quickly determine spacing of the lower third of their game.

    Also please double check dimensions of parts purchased against the ones I have provided to ensure there is no variances out there from different suppliers.

    Have Fun

    Lower_Playfield_Design.pdf

    #1132 2 years ago

    agree there is no standard hence why I only focused on using standard off the shelf parts - 2 options of return lane guides.

    it is merely a starting point for people to draw some centre lines and mark up some locations (on a computer or timber) and within a few hours you could have a nice start point.

    I have seen people wanting templates but there are so many options so makes it hard to create the perfect template for everyone and you don't all want the exact same bottom 1/3 design.

    I will soon provide a mark up template (with dimensions) for the 2 types of return lane guides and a typical slingshot to aid people in adding to their layout design.

    also another critical start point is what apron and ball trough mech will be used as that then sort of determines the flipper holes and sets the height for everything.

    glad it would help a few people and if someone wants to add my chart above to the pinball making site, they can.

    #1134 2 years ago
    Quoted from DDDwingmaster:

    If you design you own table, how can you decide what flipper spacing to use?

    that I think is a personal choice thing. I have had a few trudeau games so I like the challenge of the wider spaced flippers (even though I am a average player) so I am basing my custom pin on 7 1/8" flipper spacing

    pick a game you really enjoy playing taking note of the flipper spacing but reckon you can't go wrong going for a 7" or 6 7/8" spacing and go from there.

    there is so much that goes into a design, even if you like loop shots you will have to consider the flipper spacing and the associated slingshot location as this allows a return shot and it starts to set the layout higher above in the playfield.

    #1135 2 years ago

    here is a little more info in comparing the 2 available lane guides

    - the orange is the Bally / Williams one
    - the green is the Sega / Stern one

    They share the same hole centres and angles and cut to the flipper, with the Stern one being a little thinner as well with the top lane hole sitting higher up but pretty much centred to the Bally / Williams one hence as per the chart above that a little bit of lane space is gained with the Stern one but the loss is a bit over a inch of playfield use ???? The mounting holes are smaller in the Sega / Stern guides and these also stand a little taller as well from the playfield to where the plastic would fasten to.

    side view to identify the 2 return lane guides
    lane guide comparison 1.png

    looking from above the size difference
    lane guide comparison 2.png

    hope that aids in selecting the ideal guide for your design.

    Also please double check dimensions of parts purchased against the ones I have provided to ensure there is no variances out there from different suppliers.

    #1136 2 years ago

    I also measure 3 unpopulated play fields that I have and determined the following

    1980 - Bally - Skateball - 7" from the bottom edge of the playfield to the centre of the flipper hole

    1990 - Williams - Whirl Wind - 7.5" from the bottom edge of the playfield to the centre of the flipper hole

    1993 - Bally - Creature From The Black Lagoon - 6 15/16" from the bottom edge of the playfield to the centre of the flipper hole

    I am pretty sure that most of the 90's Bally games shared the same apron in dimensions and it probably wouldn't matter with the flippers set a little higher but I suppose using a ball trough like in a creature around 7" - 7.5" from the edge to flipper hole is safe to design to.

    Not sure on the WPC 90's games from 1995 onwards with the different ball trough as well as the Sterns maybe someone else can chime in with a dimension but this should help those interested to start some marking out.

    #1137 2 years ago

    here are some approximate dimensions of the "Bally" Return Guide in relation to the flipper hole with the placement between the flipper hole and the first hole of the lane guide a choice of yours but it marries up with the dimensions in the above chart and my choice of placement for the moment. The angle is approximately 35 degrees and you would be better off to use the dimensions detailed along that angle rather than the horizontal and vertical dimensions. Here also you can see the reference flipper hole to the end of the playfield at 7". This now should be a good starting point for a lower playfield design but I would recommend sketching on paper first 1:1 to check and then drill, route etc. Have fun.

    Also please double check dimensions of parts purchased against the ones I have provided to ensure there is no variances out there from different suppliers.

    Lower_Playfield_Guide_Dimensions.png

    #1138 2 years ago

    lastly I did post this pages back but will again with this cluster of info a playfield doodle page that you can print and sketch ideas.

    Have fun

    playfield_doodle.jpg

    2 weeks later
    #1144 2 years ago

    Hall effect / proximity switches are really cool and very accurate and commonly used on cnc machines. They will vary considering what range they can pickup metal - so can be a 1mm to 10mm. Though they might be a little more than a micro switch they will last for years with no adjustment required. Depending on the type another option is to get the tip closer to the ball is house on the under side of a insert so dirt still does not come through, switch is protected - and you could even have full art of it and not see the insert. Many have a led light in the back to aid in setting and checking the pickup range.

    3 weeks later
    #1179 1 year ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    so i read the 5 or 6 pages, sorry if this was covered already, but did anyone end up doing a whitewood kit like what was suggested in the beginning of the thread?

    one issue is there are so many parts options that can determine the lower third design / layout and then affect the middle and top third - ball flow / shots.

    check out page 23 of a graph that I put together to try and help others for the lower third with standard off the shelf parts

    also check out Pinball Life as they have a homebrew section and one specifically for playfield assemblies
    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=394&pg=1

    1 week later
    #1238 1 year ago

    that is a nice trough upgrade, wonder if instead of micro switches or the electronics, use a 3d printed plate linked to rails with proxy sensors mounted underneath. It would not reduce the price but a great way to set and leave the sensors and since they light up in the back can you quickly see if one is activated or needs adjustment.

    #1245 1 year ago

    I think if you had a flowing rounded curved surface on the exit it will cause less impact on the 3d printed parts but will spit the ball out faster - either control the coil strength or smaller coil

    #1247 1 year ago

    One idea that I would like to do for a ball trough is instead of a trough is to have a rotating wheel - like ferris wheel that can house 4-6 balls and rotates using a microstepper. Could be a way to introduce different coloured balls (using a coloured sensored?) and serve up in a set order regardless of placement in the trough / wheel. Also can be fed by the centre drain and a subway to the bottom of the wheel under the playfield.

    #1252 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mocean:

    Like the ball lock device on Lexy Lightspeed?

    yes I suppose so as never seen one up close. idea would be that half the ferris wheel would be above the playfield and the plunger or ball launch arm shoots through the top centre hole or and bottom centre hole could be the feed point with one switch down there to tell the micro stepper to rotate "x" degrees to load another ball.

    as for the traditional ball launch chute if 3d printing a very angular one a lot of pressure will be directed to the crease of that flap but if built up and have a nice radius (maybe a little more than what I drew in) the force on this area will be greatly reduced but instead of dribbling the ball out it will shoot out.

    here is a quick sketch (no fixed dimensions) of a beefed up vuk style chute with a nice radius, last image is a section.
    trough chute 1.png
    trough chute 2.png
    trough chute 3.png

    #1253 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    From a reliability standpoint, the fewer moving parts, the better.

    totally agree but depends if you want to introduce a different feature - coloured ball management. Imagine an avengers pinball with a black, green, red and blue ball and the theme was to select hulk (green) for more damage. Rotate until the green ball is loaded. Use a nema motor from a 3d printer which are cheap to rotate the ferris wheel ball mech and some sensors that are optical not mechanical (reduces mechanical parts). Biggest wear point would be the gear between the motor and the ferris wheel but using a belt drive like in 3d printers, and think you could have a reliable and affordable mech that could turn for hundreds of hours = thousands of hours of game play.

    #1254 1 year ago
    Quoted from BrianMadden:

    Python Anghelo showed something like this at Expo maybe 2 years ago? He talked about new approaches to devices he was working on (and used this as an example of a better trough). I wonder how far along those were and/or what happened to that IP? It seems like a good idea to me?

    was not aware of this, any photos out there...

    #1257 1 year ago

    think I found the Python trough design

    screen-capture-10.png

    #1269 1 year ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Hah that's a mockup of almost exactly what I've had in mind for the VUK chute on the trough I'm drafting. I don't know how curved it would need to be as I was intending to print it extremely thick on the back/topside and I'm trying to angle my eject from the bottom of the PF as much as possible (~70° right now?). The trough under the playfield resembles thicknesses closer to sheet metal but the above PF part I want to look like a 'block' of plastic with the VUK carved out of it. Come to think of it a chunk of wood with that curve routed out of it could even suffice lol...

    I drew that with a 1/2" curve but after sectioning it feel it needs to be no less than 1" radius to 1 1/2" radius

    #1284 1 year ago

    I know for SS parts laser cut in Aus prices drop by 1/3 when ordering say 100 off instead of 10-25, as there starts to be savings in sheet loading and unloading, job prep and minimum charges.

    #1302 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bonnevil69:

    My most recent game build uses a custom built trough where I am reducing moving parts and eliminates any damage from balls dropping in by having it roll down a curved surface smoothly. Also no shooter lane so it expands what I am able to fit. Full metal build . A few issues still to work out but close to fully operational.

    interested to learn more as I am working on a no shooter lane design to gain 1 1/2 inches in width, centre flippers etc and using Aurich's simplier pin concept.

    #1304 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    So how are you launching the ball?

    for me obviously a manual plunger is harder and in a bad position but I am hoping to auto-launch through the flippers using a modified autoball launcher.

    #1309 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    All this auger talk brings up an interesting question - pinball relies heavily on solenoids for ball movement, but I suspect that is mostly tradition at this point. Or cost I suppose.
    Anyone thought about alternative ball movement methods? Magnetic launch is one, steppers...

    often thought about compressed air but then need a compressor but the game could almost be 5 & 12 vdc, fairly simple to maintain but could be a birds nest of air tubes underneath as well as a compressor somewhere which has to pump up and maintain a level of pressure.

    small steppers would not get the speed or power.

    #1312 1 year ago

    agree with you toyotaboy, definitely some room for reducing the BOM and simplifying the hidden stuff.

    #1317 1 year ago
    Quoted from BobLangelius:

    Pricing:
    If you want to spend $1060 in tooling for the deboss - Qty 10/25/50 = $15ea, Qty 250 =$10.40, Qty 500 =$10.20
    If you want to forgo tooling and weld in a laser cut "lozenge" instead of the deboss - QTY 10/25/50 = $18.80, Qty 250 = $12.45, Qty 500 = $12.45
    This is FOB China, And includes $5 each for actual Genuine PEM hardware. ( Manufacturer of inserts/standoffs)
    This does not include the coil, Rubber parts, trough boards etc. Just the steel.

    interesting and thanks for sharing.

    - so say if Aurich went for what ever quantity (hypothetically) he would still need to include import taxes and freight from nearest port to Aurich as assuming price includes freight from China to the nearest port in the US to Aurich.

    2 months later
    #1386 1 year ago

    Hi tmek, your project is cool, but a little confused, are people buying the game or the game and access & ability to create your own homebrew game within the program.

    Your kickstarter just seems a little unclear and maybe a little more explanation could be very successful, is it for windows only or will your program run on a mac? Can you import models say from solidworks? How do you bring art in - illustrator art file?

    #1388 1 year ago

    bummer, I reckon the mac market is an untapped potential that they are all missing out on

    #1408 1 year ago

    depends on the machine but in most occasions you can have the different designs so the step cut and then the smaller through cut as 2 different layers. Some CNC software allows you to assign colours and cut depth to each colour.

    But you can't go wrong with a dxf file (created from a CAD program as well as the likes of Illustrator) with each cut that is unique set on a different layer and colour the lines if you want to keep track on the depths. Then just have a brief description of what the colours are and what you want to achieve. But keep in mind the machine shop might have to adjust the file to suit their cutters (depth and dia) and the radius's designed into the playfield.

    2 weeks later
    #1425 1 year ago
    Quoted from lachied:

    That TFTC one looks pretty big. Could be close in size to what I am going for.
    Just need to save my pennies for a 3D printer. I've really got a lot of things on the playfield that I can use it for.

    until you can afford a 3d printer, still do the design and then register at 3dhubs and submit your design to locate all sorts of 3d printing services, small businesses in your local area or anywhere in the world.

    #1437 1 year ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Been running the X-Carve a decent amount lately, cutting out stuff.
    » YouTube video

    nice work, how deep is each cut?

    generally the depth of each cut = diameter of the cutter
    so if using a 1/4" cutter you can cut 6mm to 6.35mm deep

    #1439 1 year ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I'm just learning, so I set it at 2mm.... I had no clue what the rule of thumb was, thanks man.
    I'll probably start going deeper slowly and get a feel for what the machine can handle.

    by watching the video I suspected a shallow cuts

    - depth cuts general rule is - depth = cutter diameter
    - depth speed depends on the machine but slow up the depth travel speed definitely before the gantry starts to lift or you get a burn mark
    - cutting travel speed depends on the machine but generally push but back off when you microsteppers slip or stall and timber burn. straight cuts can go fastener and tight curves slowed down compared to the straight cuts generally 2/3rd to half of straight as microsteppers can slip with the momentum of the router whipping around and then your job starts to grow / get out of shape.
    - a good check is a 4 holes at say a 1000mm apart at the 4 points of a square so you can check the squareness of a job / machine
    - if your software has a function of a cleanup pass activate that as long as your cutter flute is as tall as the material thickness. So say on 1/2" ply with a 1/4" cutter - set cutter at 6mm depth cuts x 2 and final cut at 1mm to make the final cut through (roughly 0.5mm past the material). The first 2 cuts will step in 0.1-0.25mm in or out depending on the outer or inner cuts, the final cut cuts at the proper design sizing removing the first 2 layer steps giving a nice clean edge to your job.
    - get a sheet of polystyrene as your waste board (double side tape to original base) and protects your original board. And a good practice is get a 1/2" cutter (will be your fly cutter) if your router can handle it and you take 0.25mm off the height of your foam waste board and run a leveling job and machine the waste board. Then any jobs dropped on the foam ensure your intricate depth cuts are spot on if you want to get precise job.

    all just tips if you don't know (but not implying that you don't know)

    not a pinball project - rather a homemade jukebox but I wanted a cool solid Jarrah subgrill with a logo and over 900 holes for sound. I used a v cutter for the logo and being level kept the logo at a consistent depth - having perfect level waste board will allow you to fine turn insert shoulder depths perfectly.

    hope that helps, any questions send me a pm

    IMG_0706_(resized).JPG

    IMG_6328_(resized).JPG

    1 week later
    #1458 1 year ago

    I am working on a concept to this effect

    1 month later
    #1464 1 year ago

    has anyone purchased and fitted one of Pinball Lifes Jet Bumper one piece assemblies to a playfield?

    does the top edge of the circular section of the main moulded frame (comes in blue or black) sit flush with the top of the playfield or slightly below?

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=4009

    anyone got any photos of one fitted?

    500-5227-00_(resized).jpg

    #1467 1 year ago

    on their site it says it is a data east / sega one and the blue circular section is 1/2" (12.70mm) tall and with my playfield design thickness is based on a spare CFTBL playfield which is 14.35mm thick so close to 9/16"

    I will plan on the top edge sitting flush and then adjust depending on the plywood I find.

    #1472 1 year ago

    the best thing to consider in selecting a proxy (based on my engineering experience) is what is the range of detection vertically as some need to be 1mm away from metal and others can be 10mm away. Next is how wide the range is compared to the proxy tip as well as the lane that the ball is travelling. Smaller proxy's with a tip of 5-6mm (up to 1/4") generally won't have much of a wide range pickup so it will need to sit pretty much under the ball travel path.

    next is the location, at a guess Heighway probably have a 3/4 of the playfield clearance pocket machined out on the under the playfield and then the proxy fitted to a flat bracket with a threaded hole and fasten down hole and set to the right setting and then locked up with a nut. Decent proxy's have a small led in the back and when they detect metal the light goes on so idea for setting. Beauty of a proxy is less through holes, cleaner finish, continuation of art work, once set, really don't need to ever adjust unless knocked or failed and downside is will be more expensive and not sure about the programming..

    1 week later
    #1507 1 year ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I actually don't need it for me, but I struggled a few times trying to read them which prompted me to ask. I eventually worked out the dimensions I needed from something someone else gave me.
    I thought about updating the png of it, but the one I was given has slightly different dimensions. I don't know which is correct so I didn't update it on pinballmakers.

    pretty sure those dimensions off the original where what I did before starting again in solidworks in 3D and from that found some minor fit issues. I posted those on the multimorphic forum a few years ago.

    also posted here but use with caution as some details found to be incorrect.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-wms-cabinet-designs-help-needed

    1 month later
    3 months later
    #1679 1 year ago
    Quoted from swedishc:

    I thought it might be interesting to try and design an inline drop target assembly in Fusion 360 instead of just buying one. It was a fun build and makes me wonder how many assemblies could just be 3D printed. It seems pretty durable, but I guess time will tell if it holds up with that reset coil firing over and over.

    that is sweet, great work

    #1680 1 year ago

    this is a great little machine, perfect for playfield inserts etc

    » YouTube video

    from this thread
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hello-beautiful-shaper-origin

    #1682 1 year ago

    still in the crowd funding stage and only for the US not outside of the US sadly, nice bit of gear.

    1 month later
    #1693 11 months ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    You need full flipper mechs ($40 each)
    flipper bats ($3 each)
    Flipper rubber ($.40 each)
    Then you need something that will safely pull 48v. Some sort of simple logic board that can turn a FET on/off, but you also need to be able to PWM the coil for hold power otherwise it will burn up (unless you use a double coil, and a separate 12v power supply and an end of stroke switch)

    Would be cool if Fast or someone else could make a little board just for the shot testing phase, reckon they would sell well and get more people taking the leap..

    8 months later
    #1811 71 days ago

    here is my playfield doodle , good starting point

    playfield doodle.jpg

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