Agreed. That's why my design skips it and serves out of the outlanes.

I also designed an upper playfield with pops that use a lever to mount the solenoids out the back of the backboard, leaving the space underneath free for other things.

Here's a screenshot of the in-progress design - no trough yet, just a basic shot layout. But I have plans for a lot of innovative things, like a drop target that works from any direction.

in-progress.png

The problem is having so many crazy ideas but no way to bring them to life without expensive equipment like CNC routers, metal breaks, etc. and with zero experience.

So, to start, I'm in the middle of converting an old EM to SS for "practice" by building my own boards (based on a combination of WPC and Gottlieb System 3) since P-ROC is so expensive.

IMG_2387.jpgIMG_2479.jpgIMG_2390.jpg10849760_10152660871308893_5927550865774161515_n.jpg

Once that's done, it's go time on the new design.

Significant. My 32 solenoid driver board was about $40 in parts. I think the P-ROC 16 solenoid board is $200 or so.

Mind you, I don't have any fancy RS-485 interface or other bits and pieces that make the P-ROC a solid piece of engineering. But then I'm doing it to better understand how it all works.

You could CNC your own in silicone at home. I've seen home CNC machines for under $2K.

http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/

Would people be interested in a dedicated pinball makers forum with a wiki and file upload section where we could consolidate all this great info?

This thread seems to indicate there is some demand for such a thing, but I don't want to go to the trouble of setting it all up if it'll be a ghost town.

If people *are* interested, feel free to let me know what you'd like in terms of organization, etc.

There's a ton of discussion in here and lots of great info.

The big problem, however, is that all the information about making your own games is scattered across multiple forums and websites, making it a big job to gather information for someone who is looking to start making their own pinball machines.

Because of this, I decided to create a central repository for any and all information on custom pinball:

pm-logo.png

http://pinballmakers.com/

It's completely free and open - the only restriction is that you must create an account to edit information and upload files. It's also open to any control systems - P-ROC, FAST, PinHeck. The focus is on maintaining useful information to pinball makers in an easy-to-use resource.

The only problem? I need your help.

I've started filling in with a skeleton of information, but I need other people's help to fill it in with more details. I've not finished a game yet, and I've not been at it for years, so all those tips and tricks you have in your head, or you've posted in this forum post are things I don't know or I'm not sure it's okay to share on another site.

Some people are experts at one aspect, like say mechanical engineering, while others are programmers.

Even if you're not interested in directly editing an article on a subject, perhaps you know a link to a good one, or you've written one up and are willing to share the info. I'm happy to copy and format your info into the existing site.

I'm also looking for help on the site design. Right now it's using a default theme that looks okay but isn't great.

Basically, I'm looking for help. I have zero interest in making any money at this - I am 100% donating the server and bandwidth to the project. I just want to help create the best resource for pinball makers online. A one-stop shop of information for creating custom pinball machines.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks everyone. I'll look into getting shirts made.

Right now the worst sections are programming and artwork - the latter mostly because I haven't had time to fill stuff in.

After that, any help or suggestions on making it as easy to use as possible. I'm a graphic designer by training and a systems admin for a living, but my CSS and JS is basically non-existent.

Hmm, when did you sign up? I was having an issue with email which I've since fixed.

Yeah, I just updated everyone - easier that way!

My point exactly. I only put a forum up there due to requests from Facebook people, I am happy to leave the discussion here and just put the amazingly useful info from here on the wiki!

People wanted shirts so I set up shirts.

http://skreened.com/pinballmakers/

They seem expensive but I make zero profit on them since they're print on demand. You have two options - the Anvil or AA shirts.

I'll be going through this thread to pull info for the wiki - I'll make sure to ask permission and give credit when I do. Thanks everyone.

I've added sections covering wireform creation, vacuum-forming, making color-coded wiring and a bunch of other stuff.

Thanks to everyone who has helped source info and done some updating!

Tons more updates on the Pinball Makers wiki - the Artwork section is significantly better and people much more knowledgeable about programming have started on the programming section. Not to mention many more custom games added.

http://pinballmakers.com/

Surprisingly, no. I measured all my games and they're all different - but generally between 2" and 3" edge-to-edge on the switch.

Getting some standard measurements would be very helpful!

Yes, a vendor list would be welcome. I'll add it to the main page.

Tons of vendors now!

You mean these?

http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/images/f/f9/Ball_Lane_Guide_Top_Double_Sided_-_03-7034_-_and_Star_Posts_-_03-8319_w_5-16_in_rubber.dwg

Just a note to the programmers out there - the programming section on Pinball Makers is still blank.

It's the one place I can't fill in myself because I know zero about programming.

Once that's done it will truly be a one-stop shop for info! The new Vendor List is pretty good too.

Swinks, I'll make sure to add that.

I had a pretty simple "this is basically how you should do rules" page there and someone came in and laid out all that stuff that makes no sense to me. So, someone seems to think it's worthwhile.

User "Linolium".

When you're ready to fill it out, have at it! Right now it's a big hole in the information.

I understand people saying it's complicated and they should just go to the pinballcontrollers site, but the point of the wiki is to collect as much info in one place as possible so people aren't searching Google for various bits.

The artwork, construction and vendor sections are amazing now, so getting the programming up to the same level would make it complete. At least, complete enough for now!

Well, no one else is stepping up unfortunately, and like I said, it's the one place I can't do squat.

It'll probably be waiting for you if and when you do have time, no worries!

Yeah, it would be nice to have some concrete examples and even just concentrating on MPF when it comes to P-ROC would be fine for beginners.

It would be good to have something for the Arduino folks out there who aren't doing DMD games.

Ultimately having anything there would be great. The rest of it is coming along so well!

That's amazing, thanks!

I think giving people enough to handle an early SS game operation would be plenty - you can't reasonably get into advanced game programming in a wiki as people have said, but you can build on that basic outline.

Wow, the programming page is looking great now! Thanks everyone!

As far as putting stuff in smaller subpages, that works where it's cross-referenced - for example, the hardware pages you created work well because I linked to it from both the Construction *and* Programming pages, but I moved the Programming specific stuff out of them to the Programming sections.

Once a section gets really big, moving it to a subpage makes more sense.

Yeah, it's a huge pain in the ass. I've already mass-deleted over 300.

Hmm, a pinball specific CAPTCHA? I'll look into it.

You still have to verify your email to edit articles so none of the signups are hurting anything, but it's vandalism none the less.

I've added a simple question to the sign up process and the flood of spambots has ceased.

Now I'm going to add Linoleum's wiring photo!

There are many examples of having larger drop banks under the playfield but only using a few actual targets. Unfortunately I can't think of game names off the top of my head but I've definitely seen it.

Each target has it's own down switch, so if you just look for those two down switches you'll know for sure all the drops are down.

That's more than Popaduik has shown.

Yes, thanks again to everyone who is contributing to the wiki! I've been watching the various forums but I haven't seen much to add yet, but it's an ongoing process.

Some of the files mysteriously vanished so I'll try and fix that today.

In 6 hours he had added scoring and support for the claw. Pretty quick.

I can't even get my switch matrix code on my arduino micro to read the damn matrix and I've been banging away at that for weeks. Programming is clearly not my forte.

Yeah, all my programmer friends ran for the hills when I asked them for help!

The sad thing is Brian offered to make MPF compatible with my crappy homemade boardset once it's working, but first I have to get it working!

There's a Stern template on the Pinball Makers site in the files section, for reference.

http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Files_Section#Playfields

Flippers do move around. For example, that's why FT has the "lightning flippers" on it as the regular length ones made the game too easy due to the flipper gap being smaller.

But they usually just shorten the ball run to the flippers.

You'd probably have to measure but I bet you'd find a difference.

The Pinball Makers site has multiple Stern playfield drawings in various formats. Why would you need a physical playfield?

I updated the Pinball Makers site with some info on computerized stencil cutting. Just FYI that the site continues to add information all the time! The Files section especially has tons of new models in it.

http://pinballmakers.com/

Oh, I like the sound of that. Never really liked the pipe one.

Good catch. The awesome part of the wiki format is that anyone can edit it - the next time you find something that's wrong, please feel free to correct it!

How did Zaccaria do it? Didn't they do a plastic overlay?

I believe the plans for the Bally drops are online - no need to own the mech to duplicate it, you just need to digitize the drawings.

Detailed on Pinball Makers:

http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Construction#Wireforms

I doubt that coil is strong enough to launch a ball.

That's one thing that hasn't really advanced at all in decades - switch tech in pins. What other options are there besides optos and hall effects?

All the basics you need are on Pinball Makers.

http://pinballmakers.com/

Yes, a lot of the home brew games were really impressive and had innovative ideas. There might be some rough edges but if you compare them to some of the home games guys like Lawlor did before going pro, they certainly hold their own!

http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Construction#Cutting

I'm at the stage where I need a multiball trough for my game, so a 3D printed one would be great.

All this auger talk brings up an interesting question - pinball relies heavily on solenoids for ball movement, but I suspect that is mostly tradition at this point. Or cost I suppose.

Anyone thought about alternative ball movement methods? Magnetic launch is one, steppers...

I designed a "drop target" like that, that can detect a hit from any direction and is height controlled from a servo. It's also clear so can be lit from below. The design in question had them arranged in a "shield" (ala AFM) and the idea was they could be lowered to any height, or be independently controlled, so you could even do something like a sound level simulation.

It's not even an expensive part - maybe $20 worth of servo, plastic and sheet metal. If I ever find the time to actually build the prototype...

I like the look of that trough!

You can buy servos designed specifically for quick operation - the types and styles of servos are huge. Different speeds, continuous operation, degree of control, amount of torque, etc.

The design is very simple - imagine an L-bracket like a drop target, but with a plastic cylinder mounted on a stalk that goes through a hoop, like a tilt bob. So the switch hit is recorded when the metal stalk hits the side of the hoop (just like a tilt bob). The servo is mounted below and is attached to the stalk, which is held in place below the hoop. Dual LED lights are mounted at the top of the L-bracket to light the clear plastic cylinder. Wish I had drawings here to illustrate.

But a bank of them, with RGB lighting - it would be quite the effect.

That would certainly simplify my design, which involved a joint coupling to a standard servo, similar to how a steam train wheel is driven. I don't see any obvious mounting holes on it, but it's certainly the right width. Very interesting.

One of the reasons I went with a 360° switch was to have them out in the middle of the playfield where a ball could come from any direction. Also, a cylinder shape offers more surface area and is less likely to snap, given that it would be a weaker clear plastic to allow light transmission. The hoop would just be a piece of steel bent in a circle with a screw to allow adjustment of the diameter, to set switch sensitivity. Very simple and durable.

In my shields design, you could have it turn red when hit, then drop a 1/4", then back to the original colour - so they become multi-hit targets. So as the game progresses the targets become harder to get down completely. Or you could have multiple targets drop from a hit to one. So many possibilities.

Just like a tilt bob. The central shaft is metal and is surrounded by a ring. When a ball hits the target, it moves the shaft to contact the ring. The shaft is held centred by a small bearing below the ring and by the servo connection.

plumbbobt.jpg

If it's like a Bally/Stern one, it sits flush.

Just a note that, with his permission, I added his wireform tutorial to the Pinball Makers site.

http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Construction#Wireforms

That and a number of other tutorials are all conveniently located there for easy browsing, instead of having to scroll through the P-ROC forums.

Me.

I don't recall where I got it from. If you keep clicking it eventually blows up to a somewhat readable size. I'll look around to see if I can find a more readable one.

Feel free to update anything on the site if you can make it better!

It's a wiki, so you are free to edit any of the entries if you find issues. Quite a few people have updated it over the last year.

Just the high power one.

Fixed! I knew when people were requesting a forum it would only be a spam magnet...

I'm currently hip deep in building a game with the OPP boards and going back and forth with Hugh on the details. Once I get my game flipping, I'll do a whole HOW-TO write-up on Pinball Makers, in English, to clear up a lot of the questions.

I was part of the Kickstarter so I got all the boards and parts from him - however, no one is selling the boards, but I just used his open source files and submitted them to a PCB builder (seeedstudio was cheapest) and I'm getting 20 more boards delivered for only $14.

His system is actually very clever - it uses a $4 PSoC board as the controller, which is what you plug into your computer via USB, and then you can mix and match up to four switch, lamp or solenoid boards on a single controller. They are then connected via a custom serial connection to other boards in a chain.

Each controller supports up to 32 switches, 32 lamps or 16 solenoids via four "wing" boards. So you could have 8 switch on one wing, 16 lamps on two other wings and 4 solenoids on the final wing. Or however you want to mix and match.

The repo has a complete BoM for each wing that you can basically cut and paste into Mouser or Digikey to order the parts.

Since I don't have mine working yet I can't comment beyond that, but if you use Mission Pinball to control it, it handles all the configuration of the controllers, you just have to put the code on them.

It's more work than P-ROC, but I did my entire machine for less than $100.

I'd be VERY interested to see the costs on the trough, the Pinball Life one is almost more than I paid for my whole machine!

I've finished putting up a preliminary guide to using the Open Pinball Project boards on the Pinball Makers site.

http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/OPP

OPP is by far the cheapest way to get a custom game going - often you can do a game for less than $100 in parts.

Any questions, let me know!

Thanks for the comments on the wiki, I'm really glad people like it, and hopefully it'll make OPP more accessible and understandable!

You don't have to wire up your game to place processors close to the devices, you can easily run the wires all the way to the head and have them in a single spot. I'm doing that on my game somewhat - I've put most of the boards at the back of the playfield where there was a lot of room for mounting.

For a first game I'd recommend wiring it together in one spot to make troubleshooting easier.

If you aren't using the USB section of the processor board, can you just cut it off for any processor boards used in the middle or end of the serial chain? That might save some space when mounting under the playfield.

Yes, that's an option, since once wired up it's not needed anywhere except the first processor. However, having the USB-to-Serial part there means you can still plug that processor in directly for upgrading the firmware or changing the config manually.

While I troubleshooted various things it was handy to do it one board at a time.

Actually, only the wing configuration is saved between power cycles - the ID is generated at power-up based on the physical position of the board in the chain.

Say you have three boards (board IDs in brackets):

1 (0x20) -> 2 (0x21) -> 3 (0x22)

if you add another in the middle, the IDs move:

1-(0x20) > 2-(0x21) > 4 (0x22) -> 3 (0x23)

That'll screw up your hard-wired config. It's not a big issue once the game is finished, though.

Perhaps I should pump-up that section to explain it more?

One possible option is you could snap off the USB-to-Serial interface, and attach a connector to the four pins, and a connector on the processor board, so that you could plug in the interface when you need it.

That's actually a good idea, since then you're not leaving an open connector with 5V just sitting there exposed...

I updated that section and moved the interface wing description up under it. Hopefully that will help make it more clear - thanks for the suggestion!

Okay, I did a huge re-write on that section, hopefully it's more clear now.

Let me tell you, figuring out all that stuff was NOT easy - the documentation does have all the info, but it's not easy to read. I spent a week chasing my tail because I mistook one photo wrong and made my ribbon cables wrong! I hope this wiki article allows people to learn from my mistakes!

If you mean OPP, since MPF supports OPP you could use that framework, which has built-in support for a variety of displays. I believe they're working on 6/7 digit support now.

It also has support for the FadeCandy, so you could drive LED displays that way.

Is that shipping yet? Last I heard it was still "Kickstarting".

I've got OPP boards working fine with MPF, I am also happy to answer questions.

The diode is required to prevent voltage spikes from the coil as the magnetic field collapses.

The part number describes the size of the wire and the number of turns - lower turns means a stronger coil.

I'm happy to comment on my breaking shit while building pinball!

Here's a small stack of processor boards I've fried while figuring out my custom power supply.

Bzzzt

And I also knocked my parts bin over the other day! Cleaning that up was super fun!

Arrrrg

Building pinball machines is fun. Here's all the EM stuff I pulled out of my game!

Anyone need some fabric wrapped wire?

That little stack of boards represents a couple of months of frustrating weekends, let me tell you...

I upgraded the wiki code and it undid my user signup CAPTCHA, thus allowing the spam bots in for about 24 hours. I ended up deleting over 10,000 spam pages and 7,000 spam users.

Looks like my spam killer code got the front page. I've restored it.

I question the accuracy of that thing.

http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Files_Section#Playfield

Keep in mind that the PCB makers in China cost a lot in shipping and duty. I got $10 worth of boards made and paid $50 in shipping and duty.