Some TH drop target CAD drawings here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jersey-jack-pinball-gameroom-show-82915/page/4#post-2713374

[edit]: Here are the full resolution images--I reduced the one in that thread by 75%, so not all the text was quite readable.

[edit2]: Bah, pinside compressed them. I'll get an alternate up.

http://i.imgur.com/hJWPwL4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2KnyVtv.jpg

201508291024308342.jpg201508291024451522.jpg

Still using coils, albiet smaller coils since it only needs to move a single target (not reset a bank of targets against a spring), but still pricey (and noisy).

Ok, so what is P3 using for it's walls that split up the upper and lower playfield?

Only people under NDA have seen under the upper PF AFAIK. I'm pretty sure someone who attended Expo may have seen the scope assembly during the serviceability demo.

coils:
27x[1].jpg

http://www.pinballnews.com/games/p3/index5.html

Dude; that's picture is from like early development. It's the wood grained cabinet from like 3 years ago.... probably at TPF'2013 or something.
The current Cabinet is more traditional. I wouldn't assume the MFG protos are using coils based upon that picture.

true

You can see the 3 pole lugs sticking up
coils.png

Whoa, that's quite the blast from the past! That was the headless cabinet that we built in mid-2012 with the flip-up glass, fixed upper playfield, 27" playfield display, and original P-ROC board (as opposed to the P3-ROC we designed shortly thereafter). That image still looks super cool to me, but pretty much everything has changed. That playfield was a proof of concept for the ball-tracking, playfield display, floating flippers/slings, rear trough, and wall/scoop assembly. We've since re-engineered everything, resulting in a fully modular system with a number of enhancements that will benefit owners, players, and game designers.

The modularity of the system is quite relevant to the discussions in this thread. We can (and will) continue to improve sub-assembly designs throughout the life of the platform to reduce weight, improve performance and reliability, and reduce cost. So the current wall/scoop assembly (which is different than the one in the pic) could later be replaced by a new and improved wall/scoop assembly (assuming such improvements are warranted).

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

Just like a tilt bob. The central shaft is metal and is surrounded by a ring. When a ball hits the target, it moves the shaft to contact the ring. The shaft is held centred by a small bearing below the ring and by the servo connection.

plumbbobt.jpg

Does anyone have or know if there are any drawings for a modern Stern cabinet?

and that's exactly why I have been eyeing up a cnc router kit

Any know if thats based on the Total Annihilation PC game of old? Or just something unique sharing the title?

He's also lionman

That's awesome!

Santa, can you please bring me a CNC machine too?

It is interesting to see that Scott manages to route the playfield on a CNC machine that much shorter as the actual playfield. Must be tricky to align the second route precise enough with the first route, so that the playfield print will match all the holes.

Build your own.

Cheap and rewarding:

http://mechmate.com/

Or... perhaps there's another way that entails modifying it.

there are a variety of challenges in just changing the size it can do and I know Scott has looked at it, but not a priority. I think he is close to mastering the alignment between the two halves.

For a build your own, I had looked at this guys stuff, but haven't gotten around to giving it serious thought. His design is a 24x48 which would be perfect for playfields (his newer plans are all for 48x48. His kits really only include the platform and stuff, the rest you buy, have not really looked at the plans to see what is involved. http://www.joescnc.com/themachines-06.php

So, tiny steps but progressing. Got the first playfield blueprint printed on "normal" paper yesterday, and it was a special feeling laying it out and seeing it in 1 size.

A quick question; I might have asked earlier but there are so many pages here in this thread:

Glue the paper to plywood, or just fasten it in the corners with thumbtacks and after drilling the necessary holes etc, then maybe remove the paper and start working with the foamcore and guides? or just glue stuff onto the paper and test with the paper on?

blueprint_(resized).jpg

Also; starting to set up a shopping list of the lower playfield parts. I am looking at different Stern flipper assemblies, and get a little confused what the rpactical difference is between these?

http://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=Flipper+assembly+stern

I am looking at the flipper assemblies on for example Iron Man and Batman, and they have a coil with no diode installed. Is this because of a way stern has designed their boards, and is this relevant to me having for either FAST or P-roc boards?

I'm currently watching scott's stuff closely. I just got an X-Carve as well and I'm deciding between lengthening it or doing what Scott is trying to do. I will do so few playfields, I don't know if it's worth lengthening, but it sure would make cutting them easier.

Depends on how complicated it is.. though I would use an adhesive and simply sand when I'm done. You could also use a light coating of gel medium to transfer the outline directly onto the wood (and again, sand when you're done).

Btw, the widths of the entrance ramps look very narrow. Keep in mind that's ok if the ball fits, but it will be really tough to make the shots. Might want to consider making the entrances wider and then narrow them down.

Gel medium, havent heard of that before, care to elaorate? The best thing would be to get the print directly on the plywood somehow

Dont worry, I own a X-Files.... No but maybe, I have testplayed it in future pinball (for what its worth..) and the ball goes in there, althought it is a narrow fit. I will keep it in mind when playtesting and maybe make some different entrance with foamcore

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Liquitex-Gloss-Acrylic-Gel-Medium/24457519

Skip the modge podge step (you don't need to seal it, they are only reference lines). Also make sure you print a mirrored copy since it will mirror when you transfer.

I've done this multiple times with success. I use a 3m spray adhesive that pulls off pretty easily and in spots it doesn't I use goo gone, let it soak the paper for a minute and it scrapes off easily. I'll pull off sections as needed.

I've added 'guide lines' to my printouts, this way if I decide to re-work a section I can just update my cad drawing and then just printed that section on 8.5x11 and use the guide lines to glue over the original section. I do the guidelines about every 7 inches, this insures that any 8.5x11 print of a playfield section will have a guide line in each direction.

went to a hobbyshop today and found something similar, although I noticed for this to work my playfield blueprint has to be mirrored. So, I will keep this in mind for the next iteration as it is costly to print this size too often

Good tip with the guidelines
For now I will have to try with the adhesive spray glue I think, but will see to it after the weekend. For now i just cut the playfield to proper size and stuck it to the plywood with some small thumb tucks/nails. It fits!

pf_cut_(resized).jpg

Looking good

Scott explains how he cuts a full playfield in 2 steps:
http://www.scottdanesi.com/?p=627

I'm surprised nobody has posted this on this thread yet.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-labs

I found them on just random searching on Kickstarter. I'm really excited for this to come out. It kind of replaces the hole that is missing with future pinball developer leaving and people having to literally hack the code.

Support if you can. I plan on using it to design games virtually before developing hardware.

Hi guys, I'm tmek the developer of Pinball Labs.

I wanted to chime in and say that these types of homebrew projects are definitely something I'm wanting to support. My goal is that the virtual tables you create with Pinball Labs could be practically built in real life as well.

For example, I ultimately will allow any insert shape, size or color, but the default list of shapes, sizes and colors would be the same ones you can buy from a pinball parts store like Marco Specialties. While working on a Fish Tales example table I used the official Fish Tales manufacturers parts list and manual downloaded from ipdb.com to make sure all my inserts were exactly the right shapes and sizes.

Similarly with GI lamps I researched real world parts to get the proper color temperatures and brightness.

What I'm trying to build with Pinball Labs is the best virtual simulation of real world tables (or virtual tables that could one day become real world tables!)

Please check out the Kickstarter for more details!

http://kck.st/1YfBkPg

WJORn0b_(resized).png

Tmek. How long did it take you (at least to this point) to create the fish tales virtual pinball machine?

Hi tmek, your project is cool, but a little confused, are people buying the game or the game and access & ability to create your own homebrew game within the program.

Your kickstarter just seems a little unclear and maybe a little more explanation could be very successful, is it for windows only or will your program run on a mac? Can you import models say from solidworks? How do you bring art in - illustrator art file?

bummer, I reckon the mac market is an untapped potential that they are all missing out on

Hi GimpMaster. The Fish Tales table, like a lot of what I've done so far, was a quick proof of concept done over a couple of days. The geometry came from one of the guys at vpforums that had created a Fish Tales table in Visual Pinball. In this case I was wanting to test the work I'd done on connecting virtual inserts, switches, etc to VPinMAME using the streaming "Pinball Event Protocol" part of the Pinball Labs API. In the image you can see where I associated insert IDs and switch IDs on the playfield to their corresponding ids from the manufacturers manual to interface with VPinMAME.

I should clarify that one of the goals of Pinball Labs is to be fun and easy to use. You don't need to know about the API or Pinball Event Protocol, you'll start by specifying playfield dimensions, choosing background art/template from a file, and then drag and drop devices on to the playfield. Once on the playfield you can set parameters like colors, ids, etc.

Thanks swinks

Pinball Labs will consist of three main features:
- An Editor that let's you design your own virtual pinball tables and save them to easily shareable files.
- A Simulator that allows you to play those virtual pinball tables with modern physics and visuals.
- An API that allows you to extend pinball labs and interface it's simulated virtual tables with real world hardware (flashers, solenoids, buttons etc) or external controllers. (Like PinMAME or homebrew pinball frameworks like Mission Pinball Framework)

It's written using Unreal Engine 4 which supports platforms like Mac and Linux but in order to build and test for those platforms you need Mac and Linux machines which I don't have currently. If the Kickstarter were to be funded there would almost certainly be Mac and Linux builds but they would come a few months after the Windows builds.

You will be able to import models as .FBX files and images as .png or jpg.

fishtalesdevices_(resized).png

Hi Aurich, how the editor will work is still a work in progress. Because I'm supporting three display modes I would ideally like the editor to be usable in all three. I'm straying away from the traditional orthographic CAD like views to a more 3D perspective approach, again kind of like you're just looking and working with a real world pinball table. I really like the idea of editing a playfield on a virtual cab machine with a 43" inch touch screen.

There's a great thread at vpforums where you can see the work in progress and how the feature set for Pinball Labs was refined.

http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=32576

You work for Ars. Even if you just have macs, you should have Windows in Fusion or Parallels.

I got a chance to visit a VR development studio with a group of FAST users last Wednesday and see the Pinball Labs table through VR goggles. Pretty cool stuff. I would love to be able to post some photos of the experience but we were strictly told "no photos" inside the studio.

Hope the Kickstarter is a success!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

I love all of the information presented in this thread, and the fact that its over 28 pages speaks strongly about the pinball development community!

For my projects, I usually take multiple steps using cheaper materials in the early design iterations and moving up the chain as those designs become more permanent.

Step 1) Design the playfield using Adobe Illustrator. I use two layers at least. One layer is for the thru-hole route for the mounting holes and inserts. Another layer is for the partial depth cuts for the inserts to sit on.

Screen_Shot_2016-01-01_at_1.10.08_PM_(resized).png

Step 2) Print out the playfield design at full scale just to make sure your parts fit, placing common parts on top of the paper to make sure things are to scale. Its amazing how whacky things can get out of alignment.

2013-10-03_21.31.25_(resized).jpg

Step 3) I also did a few test cuts for the common pinball hardware to make sure it fit into the pinball 2000 cabinet I was using with the standard mounting hardware.

2013-09-04_22.22.23_(resized).jpg

Step 4) Next, I converted the illustrator file with two layers into a CAD file and separated each tool path and sent it to a CNC shop I found online to get a few playfields run. They come back like the following. Sadly I didn't include the shooter lane notch, but the next revisions will include it. This was good enough for a couple of whitewoods.

IMG_20140730_203227_(resized).jpg

Step 5) At the time, Pinball Life didn't have the inserts I needed (but they do now). I also intended to use RGB strands, so white opaque inserts are cheap to make and get things rolling. This game has a LOT of inserts. All in all, $66 for a set of 2 inserts to get laser cut. The material must be slightly thicker than the depth of the insert lip so they can be sanded flat. Clear inserts must be run in a separate batch.

Screen_Shot_2016-01-01_at_1.21.08_PM_(resized).png

Step 6) Test fit the clear/opaque inserts in the whitewood playfield with the rest of the basic hardware.

IMG_20140914_092330_(resized).jpg

Step 7) Start documenting your lamp and switch matrices to figure out how your wire runs are going to work. It is almost a guarantee that you will screw it up the first few tries, but practice will make these things better. If you have the option to route out PCBs instead of wiring up each lamp by hand, then PLEASE do it. It cuts down on wire runs significantly.

2013-09-30_10.26.43_(resized).jpg

StepAt this point, we've got to think about our hardware control system. We are interfacing with the stock Pinball 2000 driver board, but using a PC solution to run the software side of things. However, the P2K driver boards interfaced with the host computers over a parallel port, which is getting a bit more rare on modern motherboards and the software requirements are greater in terms of having a real time kernel to get the microsecond resolution you need to successfully drive the lamp and switch matrices. Instead, we design a solution that the parallel driver board connects to that controls all of the real time bits. We send it commands over a USB serial line and the firmware on the chip does the rest. The advantage here is that the chip also controls our RGB strands, DC and servo motors. I would rather use a solution like P-ROC which is readily available where the driver boards are locally mounted as well as the switch boards reducing wire runs and easing installation and troubleshooting. However given that the P2K driver boards are included in the build (and any installation scenario), then it just made sense for this build. For WPC games, though, the choice is clear.

Screen_Shot_2016-01-01_at_1.29.18_PM_(resized).png

Step 9) Since we have a hardware interface built with the ability to drive DC motors and talk to our software over a USB port, we can also build some custom spinning flashers by using a 3D printer to print our smaller parts!

Step 10) Once we get the hardware talking, we can connect things up to our PC running custom software (Unity3D/.NET so we can render 3D graphics in real time and use more advanced features), we get this:

IMG_0104_(resized).JPG

Now we're gutting all of the non-RGB lamps and putting in RGB strands now that our hardware controls it, and start wiring up the higher power mechs to the playfield!

Step 11) Next, we start thinking about our art package. There is no reason to apply artwork to whitewoods, so this is a later step. Though vector graphics are ideal as the quality can be maintained at full scale, and every printing shop knows how to work with the format. We fit the vector graphics over our illustrator playfield cutout layers. This is a great advantage in using illustrator for the playfield layout design. It all just works.

Screen_Shot_2016-01-01_at_1.39.01_PM_(resized).png

IMG_20140803_195042_(1)_(resized).jpg

How important is this? I would think you could superglue the inserts in to the correct depth without much difficulty, but then again I have never made a pf.

Also fantastic pics and project!

The first problem you'd have is making sure things are level. It would be absolute hell getting those inserts glued and level. I suppose you could clamp something and turn the playfield upside down and insert the inserts from the back with the glue on the sides to try to get them flush with the top of the playfield. The issue there is that gravity (and heat from the lamps) are always working against you, so there is nothing to support the ball rolling over those inserts, and eventually they will sag.

No idea on the 3D translation bits myself, though I'd love to see an attempt at it using color fills!

The vector design route just makes things a bunch simpler for me. It means I can do graphics and CAD-based design within the same document and keep things at the same measurements and scale, and then just cut and paste what I need into individual documents when it comes time to print or have things made. This could also translate very well into virtual applications because the mathematical expressions of every object in the realm is already there!

Good stuff.

It would only let me up-vote once. Great post!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Thank you so much It was fun talking shop on the phone with you this evening.

I look forward to documenting the development on my project as things move forward!

Agreed, Compy great post.