(Topic ID: 112929)

Let's figure out the minimum parts to build a whitewood


By Aurich

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by orangegsx
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    There are 1870 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 38.
    #601 5 years ago

    Wow, the MPF might be just what I need. Reading up on it now, but it looks like it is a great option for a non-code oriented person like myself. Thanks for sharing that part.

    #602 5 years ago
    Quoted from BloodyCactus:

    imo, thats so far beyond the scope of a diy pinball building wiki.

    That's fair to say as I really have no way to judge 'overkill' from the software side, but I guess my point is: from my perspective as a mechanical engineer I feel most of the mechanical construction diy stuff is overkill for me personally, but I recognize that many people do not know about or have those specific skills, so it's great to have some reference info in there targeting pinball diy mechanical stuff as opposed to "go search vacuum forming". I personally don't see why a barebones cobbled together flippers/bumpers/scoring coding section is outside the scope of a diy wiki, even if it's simply pseudocode describing how the code works for various items and what steps need to happen to get up and running. But again, maybe im just out of my league in terms of knowledge about what I'm describing

    Either way I'm not passionately for or against, and am likely 100% wrong or uninformed on my thoughts, but I'm just addressing the topic to pass some time I think everything is trending the right direction regardless of how the coding section ends up turning out.

    #603 5 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    That's fair to say, but I guess my point is: from my perspective as a mechanical engineer I feel most of the mechanical construction diy stuff is overkill for me personally, but I recognize that many people do not know about or have those specific skills, so it's great to have some reference info in there targeting pinball diy mechanical stuff as opposed to "go search vacuum forming".
    I personally don't see why a barebones cobbled together flippers/bumpers/scoring coding section is outside the scope of a diy wiki, even if it's simply pseudocode describing how the code works for various items and what steps need to happen to get up and running.
    Either way I'm not passionately for or against, just addressing the topic to pass some time I think everything is trending the right direction regardless of how the coding section ends up turning out.

    I agree with your opinion and even if it was a few code samples in different languages to show people what the difference. With the sample codes some basic explanation as even that may help people in which direct they want to go in.

    #604 5 years ago

    Yeah, it would be nice to have some concrete examples and even just concentrating on MPF when it comes to P-ROC would be fine for beginners.

    It would be good to have something for the Arduino folks out there who aren't doing DMD games.

    Ultimately having anything there would be great. The rest of it is coming along so well!

    #605 5 years ago

    MPF works with FAST too, and they're nearly ready to release final hardware, so it's a pretty solid thing to start with I'd think. If you're above that because you're so hardcore then you're probably not reading the programming section of the wiki anyways.

    #606 5 years ago

    I feel like Aurich just called me hardcore.

    I better start making some positive contributions to this community then..

    #607 5 years ago

    I say stick anything of use up there. I enjoy reading about other peoples techniques on software. Really, it amazes me from all the different ways people achieve the same goals in writing up the rules.

    #608 5 years ago

    As one who has just the most superficial understanding of C++ and no other languages, I think what I would find the most useful is a "plain English" explanation of the general structure of the code used in pins. As in, "These are the general schemes used, and this is a typical implementation" breaking things up into such categories as "multiplayer, scoring, reading a matrix, firing coils, etc."

    I feel like you could then leave the specifics to the designer, but as purpledrillmonkey said above, when you don't know what you don't know...maybe I'm all wet?

    Pseudocode would be fine as well.

    I would see it as three levels of complexity:
    General- What we do
    General- How we do the above
    Specific- Examples of how

    Regardless, I appreciate all the effort being put into this!

    #609 5 years ago

    ok. knocked out a rough flow idea at work, kinda random brain dump

    things like 'put ball onto shooter lane' is a lot more complex
    (how many times do you try before going into fail mode etc)
    
    assumptions in here are for something like a stern machine that has
    an autoball launch WITH an manual plunger
    
    diagnostic menu is glossed over in passing, assumption is hardware
    interlock takes care of disabling HV stuff
    
    ball save timer disabled once game scored 1000 points since starting
    that ball, or you drain a second time with ballsave on
    
    2 inlanes, 2 outlanes, 3 pops. pops have debounce so they dont trigger
    themselves in the action of 'popping'. 
    
    if you see 'now' its in time in milliseconds etc
    
    does not go into modes, stacking modes and such.
    
    power on
    ========
        (hardware does anything it needs to do)
    
        initiate any software driven self tests
    
        load/set software defaults
        load user configuration changes (ie: credits left, freeplay etc)
    
        go into attract mode
    
    attract mode
    ============
        dazzle lights
        play sounds
    
        is coin door open?
            yes
                show diagnostic menu
    
        is diagonistc menu enter pressed
            yes
                take action
    
        is diagnostic menu prev pressed
            yes
                go back up option
    
        is diagnostic menu next pressed
            yes
                advance option
    
        if not freeplay?
            has coin drop switch hit?
                yes
                    is it freeplay?
                        yes
                            add to credit count
                            display credit count
                            play credit sound
                            go back to top level attract mode
                        no
                            do nothing?
    
        if start button pressed?
            is it on freeplay?
                no
                    do we have enough credits for player 1?
                        no
                            show more credits screen
                            go back to top level attract mode
    
                        yes
                            set player count to 1
                            reduce token count
                            shift to start game mode
                yes
                    set player count to 1
                    shift to start game mode
    
        is flipper button pressed?
            display last set of scores on screen for all 4 players
    
        go back to top level attract mode
    
    start game
    ==========
        is coin door open?
            yes
                is diagnostic menu displayed?
                    no
                        display active diagnostic menu
    
        is diagnostic menu up?
            yes
                is diagnostic menu enter pressed
                    yes
                        take action
    
                is diagnostic menu prev pressed
                    yes
                        go back up option
    
                is diagnostic menu next pressed
                    yes
                        advance option
    
                goto start game
    
        is current score - ball start score < 1000?
            yes
                disable ballsave timer
    
        if all balls in ball trough?
            yes
                is ball in play
                    no
                        put ball onto shooter lane
                        reset ball saved count to 0
                        save ball start score
                    yes
                        is ballsave timer < 10 seconds?
                            yes
                                is ball saved count < 1
                                    yes
                                        put ball onto shooter lane
                                        increment ball saved count
                                        goto start game mode
                                    no
                                        end turn
                                        do bonus calc
                                        display score
                                        shift to next player
                                        goto to top of start game
                            no
                                end turn
                                do bonus calc
                                display score
                                shift to next player
                                goto to top of start game
    
        is start button pressed?
            yes
                is it still player 1 on ball 1?
                    yes
                        is player count less than 4?
                            yes
                                is game on freeplay?
                                    yes
                                        increment player count
                                        zero new players score
                                    no
                                        do we have enough credits?
                                            yes
                                                increment player count
                                                zero new player score
                                            no
                                                display credit required screen
                    no
                        cant add players in middle of game
    
        is coin switch hit?
            yes
                is game on freeplay?
                    no
                        play coin sound
                        (dont show coin graphic in middle of game)
                        increment credit count
    
        is shooterlane switch active?
            yes
                is autolauncher flag disabled
                    yes
                        set shooterlane sound flag to true
            no
                is shooterlane sound flag true
                    yes
                        play ball leaving shooterlane sound
                        display shooterlane animation
                        clear shooterlane flag
                        start ballsave timer
    
        has either flipper been held continuously down for 15 seconds?
            show status screens
    
        showing status screen?
            yes
                is flipper still held?
                    yes
                        other flipper pressed?
                            yes
                                cycle status screen
                    no
                        close status screen
    
        is left flipper button pressed
            yes
                trigger left flippe
                cycle inlane outlane lights to the left
    
        is right flipper button pressed
            yes
                trigger right flipper
                cycle inlane outlane lights to the right
    
        is left slingshot hit?
            yes
                trigger left slingshot solenoid
    
        is right slingshot hit?
            yes
                trigger right slignshot solenoid
    
        is left outlane switch hit?
            yes
                light left outlane light
                add 10 points!
                are all 4 inlane switch lit?
                    yes
                        add 1000 points
                        clear all inlane lights
                is special when lit?
                    yes
                        shit the bed
    
        is right outlane switch hit?
            yes
                light right outlane light
                add 10 points!
                are all 4 inlane switch lit?
                    yes
                        add 1000 points
                        clear all inlane lights
                is special when lit?
                    yes
                        shit the bed
    
        is left inlane switch hit?
            yes
                light left inlane
                add 10 points!
                are all 4 inlane switch lit?
                    yes
                        add 1000 points
                        clear all inlane lights
    
        is right inlane switch hit?
            yes
                light right inlane
                add 10 points
                are all 4 inlane switch lit?
                    yes
                        add 1000 points
                        clear all inlane lights
    
        is pop1 hit?
            yes
                is now - pop1 hit time > 200ms
                    yes
                        trigger pop1 solenoid
                        save pop1 hit time
                        add 10 points
    
        is pop2 hit?
            yes
                is now - pop2 hit time > 200ms
                    yes
                        trigger pop2 solenoid
                        save pop2 hit time
                        add 10 points
    
        is pop3 hit?
            yes
                is now - pop3 hit time > 200ms
                    yes
                        trigger pop3 solenoid
                        save pop3 hit time
                        add 10 points
    
    #610 5 years ago

    Wow, you put a lot of time into this. The funniest thing is your first line. Did this at work.

    #611 5 years ago

    thats just inlanes and pops, glosses over diagnostic menu etc.

    I'd be all for state machines, but things get really hairy if you try stacking modes, giving modes individual timers and stacking them, backing out of one mode while in another etc. (yay for automatic tools and grammer paresr and LR/LALR/LLK parer generators etc).

    #612 5 years ago

    That's amazing, thanks!

    I think giving people enough to handle an early SS game operation would be plenty - you can't reasonably get into advanced game programming in a wiki as people have said, but you can build on that basic outline.

    #614 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    ooh, the shirts are on sale

    Ordered one today during the sale. I had signed up for an account prior to ordering and got a 15% off code (WELCOME15) to combine with the sale.

    #615 5 years ago

    I tried opening the DWG file for the playfield layout both in draftsight and edrawing viewer, and it errors out. I went ahead and traced a space shuttle playfield and uploaded a DWG file.

    #616 5 years ago

    pop bumper drill template added to thingiverse for those wanting to map out parts a little easier.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:650229

    playfield.pngPop Bumper centre holes.pngPop Bumper Template.png

    #617 5 years ago

    Ordered a shirt as well.

    Swinks. What are the 3 smaller holes near the outer edge of the template for? My EM project doesn't have those and that's the only style I have taken apart right now.

    #618 5 years ago

    Those are for the special screws that hold the pop bumper bracket to the playfield. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers

    #619 5 years ago

    ecurtz is correct, the template is based on a dmd pop assembly as a guide.

    #620 5 years ago

    does anyone want a slingshot template ?

    #621 5 years ago

    One issue I see, as far as playfields go, is choosing parts.

    * Flippers - doesn't matter, bushing size and position are common
    * sling mechs -hole patterns are common no matter what you use (but will likely be Stern slings)
    * pop bumpers - Hole size common

    However...
    * trough - Only one I see off the shelf that's available is Stern, which is not the same cutout as a williams
    * inline guides - Only one off the shelf available is modern Williams, which I believe is the same as Sega/Data East? I believe early solid state is different

    Ideally (going to try to work on this) is to get a generic playfield that works with common off-the-shelf parts. I wonder if it makes more sense to trace a Stern pinball playfield?

    #622 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    One issue I see, as far as playfields go, is choosing parts.
    * Flippers - doesn't matter, bushing size and position are common
    * sling mechs -hole patterns are common no matter what you use (but will likely be Stern slings)
    * pop bumpers - Hole size common
    However...
    * trough - Only one I see off the shelf that's available is Stern, which is not the same cutout as a williams
    * inline guides - Only one off the shelf available is modern Williams, which I believe is the same as Sega/Data East? I believe early solid state is different
    Ideally (going to try to work on this) is to get a generic playfield that works with common off-the-shelf parts. I wonder if it makes more sense to trace a Stern pinball playfield?

    I think as far as template stuff goes it makes sense to think of it in terms of layers or mix-and-match. If you're using a Stern trough, you show the Stern trough and hide the Williams one, but having them both available is best.

    #623 5 years ago

    for pops I'm using the giant round circle cutout ones, the blue Data East style, I think Alvin G used them. I think they are also in AMH? Happ made them or something maybe? I forget, but I picked these so I only have to route one hole in the PF, less to go wrong for me hand routing stuff

    #624 5 years ago

    2 return lane guides are readily available:

    Williams / Bally - will allow about a 6 3/4 inch spacing between flipper pivot posts

    Stern / Sega - will allow about a 7 inch spacing between flipper pivot posts.

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&mode=search&search_in=all&search_str=return+lane+guide

    #625 5 years ago

    Is the hole spacing actually different or are the Stern ones just skinnier?

    #626 5 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    does anyone want a slingshot template ?

    Yes please!

    #627 5 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    Is the hole spacing actually different or are the Stern ones just skinnier?

    if you are asking about the return lane guides, they are a little skinner. It is the alternative to what stern use on alot of machines with wires ones and then a SS plate at the lead in to the flipper.

    #628 5 years ago

    thanks for sharing the code with us BC, helps us people with no experience to see samples and which one we should go.

    maybe for the pinball makers website, if people with code experience can load up say the same start up program in the different languages so us newbies can see which one to consider.

    #629 5 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    does anyone want a slingshot template ?

    I just uploaded a Williams and a Stern playfield, which includes the holes for the slings.
    http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Files_Section#CAD_Drawings

    #630 5 years ago

    This is another template to help as an aid those creating a custom pin that are ahead of me in the build. The slingshot measurements were based off a CFTBL playfield and I have not made a playfield yet to test so use with caution and please let me know if there are any issues though I believe it will be very close.

    If you are using the williams / bally return lane guides say from Pinball Life the general dimensions can be found here of where to locate items in reference to the flippers. Using these return lane guides along with other components will mean you will have to space the flipper post holes 6 3/4inch apart for everything to fit across the playfield. Using the Stern / Sega return lane guides may allow you to get 7 inches between flipper posts.

    The template will have a 90 degree corner, therefore use the bottom flat piece to be parallel with the bottom of the playfield and like wise for the vertical section to be parallel with the side of the playfield.

    I learnt a lot in this process and doubt any 2 games are exactly the same in the way of the overall sling shot plastic size. On measuring a few playfields what is consistent is the dimension from the bottom post hole of the plastic to the switch hole and then to the next switch holes with the kicker arm slot pretty much in the middle those varies 0.5mm. The kicker arm hole appears to be a few degrees kicked so when kicking a ball the ball would kicker higher I am assuming. The dimensions for the remainder of the design is merely my design and doing a practical layout before I tweak to suit game play. Slingshot assemblies will vary in length up the playfield and to the side as will the globe holes but ensure the switch brackets underneath can be mounted.

    I hope the info helps and please share with me any tips.

    You will notice a overall lower playfield layout to show you general dimensions of parts and for you to consider spacing.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:651372

    Screenshot1.pnglower playfield dimensions.jpgtop of playfield.jpgbottom of playfield.jpg

    #631 5 years ago

    As for the programming section, I got a good start on things Friday night with smaller pages. More to come, of course.

    #632 5 years ago

    I started filling some general info out on the programming page

    #633 5 years ago

    I suggest we put things on smaller, more focused pages. Makes things easier to find(or skip over). That, and you can put more detailed information per-page that might be otherwise skipped.

    #634 5 years ago

    Wow, the programming page is looking great now! Thanks everyone!

    As far as putting stuff in smaller subpages, that works where it's cross-referenced - for example, the hardware pages you created work well because I linked to it from both the Construction *and* Programming pages, but I moved the Programming specific stuff out of them to the Programming sections.

    Once a section gets really big, moving it to a subpage makes more sense.

    #635 5 years ago

    Wow there's a lot of accounts being made for the wiki, up to 10 times/hour! Okay, those are spammer accounts. Heh.

    #636 5 years ago

    Yeah, it's a huge pain in the ass. I've already mass-deleted over 300.

    #637 5 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Yeah, it's a huge pain in the ass. I've already mass-deleted over 300

    Crap, is there any way of making it harder to sign up for an account? I'm assuming these are spammers looking to use a wiki to turn it into a link farm? Under recent changes today, it's nothing but new accounts.

    #638 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Crap, is there any way of making it harder to sign up for an account? I'm assuming these are spammers looking to use a wiki to turn it into a link farm? Under recent changes today, it's nothing but new accounts.

    I would say shut off new account creation altogether, and make him/her send an email with a specific subject line. A few hoops to jump through should shoo away the overwhelming amount of signups. 99% of the recent changes is account creations.

    #639 5 years ago
    Quoted from s1500:

    I would say shut off new account creation altogether, and make him/her send an email with a specific subject line

    Or maybe a question about pinball gets PM'd to your pinside account. Surely if you're a pinball builder, you're a pinside member.

    #640 5 years ago

    This thread continues to keep me enthralled

    #641 5 years ago

    Hmm, a pinball specific CAPTCHA? I'll look into it.

    You still have to verify your email to edit articles so none of the signups are hurting anything, but it's vandalism none the less.

    #642 5 years ago

    IFPA has a pretty good idea:

    http://www.ifpapinball.com/calendar/submit.php

    Go to the very bottom, right above the submit button.

    #643 5 years ago

    Admin verification. Capcha, lots of options. Unfortunate side effect of the internet.

    #644 5 years ago

    I actually enjoy doing harnesses these days. It's wicked easy with a pin-board compared to stringing it directly on a white wood.

    EDIT: LMAO, I spelled Solenoid wrong ~~Stoopid handz~~

    image.jpg

    #645 5 years ago

    Note to self: Hire Linolium to make harness.

    #646 5 years ago

    Linolium, where do you get your large format prints? I was thinking I was just going to use Kinkos or something.

    #647 5 years ago

    I've added a simple question to the sign up process and the flood of spambots has ceased.

    Now I'm going to add Linoleum's wiring photo!

    #648 5 years ago

    I bring my wiring diagrams to Staples and have them print it up 1. Usually costs ~$4 to $8 each depending on the size. Add in $8 for 2'x4' particle board from Lowes and anywhere between $5 to $20 for springs, hardware, and a box of 2" nails.

    The Haunted Cruse's switch pin-board was the most expensive so far. Lots of springs and things were used on that one. It was actually 2 harnesses in 1: 8x8 switch matrix + 18 or so wire opto harness. I did the solenoids for it directly on the whitewood so I don't have a board for that. I'll be making a board for the lamp harness eventually.

    HC_Switches.jpg

    #649 5 years ago

    That's fantastic man. I love to see organized, clean work!!

    #650 5 years ago

    I posted this on the pinball controllers forum but no one really understood the point of it there. Maybe it could be useful for someone on this thread.

    While possibly increasing the number of individual wires for the switch matrix, I'm currently getting some boards fabricated that will allow for running cat5 cables between each board. From a single board you can then split out the cat5 cables to the individual devices (In my custom machine I will be adding another stage of molex connectors so that individual devices can also easily be moved)

    The end result is no soldering under the playfield.

    For a 16x8 matrix (16 rows, 8 columns) you run 3 cat5 cables to the first breakout board. A jumper setting is used to make the board column 1 and that column is then connected on the board to 2 complete sets of RJ45 connectors (16 wires total). Those 2 RJ45 connectors can be paired with 2 more RJ45 connectors that represent the 16 row wires. Individual wires stem from these directly to the devices so no devices need to be chained together.

    3 more RJ45 connectors are then used to allow that first breakout board to be connected to the next board and so on.

    Hopefully my boards should arrive in a week, I look forward to wiring/soldering it all up. It means I can just make a massive stack of different length cat5 cables and then (Im planning on making more than 1 machine) I just grab whatever length I need and plug them in. If something needs to move just unplug and grab a different length cable.

    Just another different method than pinboards and careful planning.

    Note: Oh I was designing this as a panel so ignore the bottom half below the solid line, Ill be using that as the initial connector header that I can then wire into the proc.

    RJ45 Breakout Board.png
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