Yes. Technically this thread derailed along time ago. Typical pinside. Get back to the minimum it takes to make a whitewood. Two flippers, A bunch of posts , Some rubber rings, A few rails , Maybe a ramp or two .and a plan, If you want a flipping white wood you would need a control system if solid state,a power source and a ton of wires in different colors

Find a Silverball Mania at local garage sale. Finish sanding off the artwork on the PF (the ball has already done 70% of it for you). Replace fuse. Done.

That does simplify things

I disagree.

We are actively building a library of parts and techniques to find the easiest entry point to whitewoods.

We've been exploring 3D printers as a way to get the basic necessities up faster and cheaper.

Maybe I'm taking the point of the thread incorrectly, but I was hoping to end up with a list of parts and options for future people to run with. I also assumed that wouldn't just be a parts list from pinball life, but also some options for 3D printing, computer aided design, etc...

I would like to see your write up on art for boutique pinball machines. It's the one thing I can't do is draw. If you ever want to get your art on one I'm designing two at the moment . My current artist that handles all the hand drawn stuff has been MIA for about 4 months

I just saw minimum in the title. To me. Minimum means bare necessities like average peoples garage. Most people don't have cnc machines or 3d printers. Or did it mean absolute minimum parts which would make cnc and 3d printed parts even more off subject. Not trying to be rude just helpful

I don't know if people necessarily need 3D printers to benefit from the technology. Shapeways is always an option, as well as having someone like me print things for them. I would just charge the cost of materials. For example, if someone wanted a set of swinks ball guide posts, a couple shooter lanes, and some other stuff printed, they could either use shapeways or work out something with me/swinks/whoever to print them.

One of the ways I am using to get to a whitewood is by making "dummies" of the different types of things that stick above a playfield.

I want to be able to freely move them around my workbench while I tinker with ideas in my head. No balls needed yet, and no holes to cut. I just move them around like chess pieces.

For example, here is a dummy of a 3-Bank motorized target I made. It's the same dimensions as the real one when it is up above the playfield.

Swinks's ball guides are allowing me to move guides around my workbench easily as well, I just have them hot glued in place, but when i want to move them I just pop them off and stick them down somewhere else.

I'll take a pic in a bit of what I've got going on. I am trying to also get the dimensions for inline drops, if you happen to have access to a metallica.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-measurements-for-metallica-drop-targets

Dummy_3Bank.jpg

This is a very cool and simple thought... I will be adopting this idea in the weeks to come haha. Was making mockups out of foamcore last year but the 3d printer access certainly changes things here...

The post was to let people know that a bunch of pinball builders and friends of pinball were getting together at the Seattle Pinball Museum including Brian Madden showing the latest developments with the Mission Pinball Framework. The MPF runs on P-ROC hardware also. It was an impromptu event that came together quickly and I made the post (in the FAST Pinball thread) to spread the word. I can understand why Gerry would delete it and in hindsight I should have not bothered posting it. I am just sharing this because I don't want it to seem like it was just some shitty attempt to convert P-ROC users to FAST. I was just excited about getting pinball builders in the community together.

This is probably why Aurich and others have commented to the appeal of a neutral space for discussing pinball building/development. Where people don't need to worry about crossing lines or ruffling feathers. But let's get this thread back to the fun stuff!

I am looking forward to finishing up the construction on the new workspace so I can get back to building pinball myself! Stairs now have a railing/wall and the upper level door installed. I am off to finish some drywall...

image.jpg

Aaron
FAST Pinball

I agree with others that this is a cool thread and how it is great that it is turning it a thread of various parts on offer, advice, templates etc. and not be a specific product though I don't see an issue on discussion of product comparison as it helps the potential builders decide which way to go.

For me I have been on the p-roc forum as a semi active member and Gerry has some great products but my stumbling block is programming and when you read that you need to load all these various components to be able to programme it scared me away. Not sure if FAST Pinball's will approach it differently but it would be cool if one of the product developers could have a product that could be wired in and when it came to programming just one simple programme was loaded on your computer that came with a basic library of code built in. As for the programming it would then be cool if a basic programme was supplied with a bunch of features that you can then just assign your solenoids, switches and globes to predetermined numbers (in the code). Then the basics already be installed and activated so it knows how to do a ball search, flippers, pops and slings all up and running as well as lights 1-40 say etc. So then the programming then really starts at the rules of your theme as the basics are already supplied and pre-installed. This would help so many people could test the shot layout before entering the rules and get a basic machine up and running much more simply and quicker. I know coding is simple for some just like I am comfortable designing the parts and mechs for pinballs but it would be cool if the P-roc / fast products could have a beginners package that could get you up and flipping faster.

For me I have wanted to build a pin for years but I would struggle if I have to do the whole lot myself so this is great that people are sharing info hence why I am trying to share my bit as well which is why I am offering thingiverse files for free as well as shapeways options for those without printers and laser files - it all helps. No offence to the share drive thing guys but found the thingiverse thing suits me best as I like seeing the data of download numbers and if I update a file I can share why I did that where a drop box is just a file and no attached info. So far 30 people have downloaded the complete version and 11 people the split version so it gets out there quick. I just hope more people get in and share and help each other as it allows everyone to reach new grounds.

Now can someone help me with my Congo problem ???

Programming the p-roc isn't too difficult. I use the C++ library myself. The only real hard part imo is setting up the hardware i/o ports and such. But do that once then keep the same setup for all your projects.

I wrote a c++ wrapper for my projects so I'm not dependent on libproc's calls. When the time comes, I'll extend my framework to be switchable between p-roc and fast using simple #ifdef calls and build configurations.

Otherwise, it's really just basic game logic programming.

I'm a guinea pig for a guy that's spinning his own boards, that have PWM solenoid drivers pre-programmed for flippers (48v initial hit, then 12v hold). From I've talked with him it sounds like it will be a lot of cut-n-paste basic programming for scoring (with a framework template to display scoring on an LCD). I'm on the verge of getting my flippers wired up to start flipping on my whitewood. He has a blog if you want to read his progres:
http://openpinballproject.wordpress.com

For sure. This was a big goal of ours. Using only a terminal connection to the hardware you can use the FAST Protocol to send serial commands to the FAST Controller and your playfield can be playing like an EM in minutes. I love this because I spend a lot of time just working on playfield physics before I am anywhere near wanting to truly program a game.

Here is a config string for a game I have been tinkering with. I just send a file over terminal and ta-da! Game is alive. Flippers, pops, slings, kickouts (on delay), etc. This snippet controls 3 dual wound flippers.

DN:00,00,02,08,12,20
DN:00
DN:01,01,02,08,07,20
DN:01
DN:02,00,02,09,12,20
DN:02
DN:03,01,02,09,07,20
DN:03
DN:04,00,02,09,09,20
DN:04
DN:05,01,02,09,07,20
DN:05

Obviously, that doesnt make a lot of sense at the moment. Our latest hardware is on its way to us and when it arrives and is built and tested I will be making some demo videos showing how fast you can get to a "physical prototyping mode" with the hardware super fast. It was really important to make sure that you could develop your game the way you naturally do.

Back to drywall... boring!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

This isn't encouraging non-programmers into giving it a go, it's just reaffirming their beliefs that "code is hard" -- because none of that means anything to them.

Python written in mostly plain english, however ...

Really swinks. Did you ask for help before quitting. All the components are installed with the 1 click installer. Make a .yaml file designating all your coils, lights , and switches . Then modify the starter.py. Bam flipping. I can do it in 30 mins now. Including the install time. I have no prior programing experience. My background is construction management of concrete foundations so I'm basically retarded compared to everybody else on here. Lol. But I built a fully working pinball machine from absolute scratch Completely by hand. Well anyways. If you need help just ask.

EEeeew!
Heheheheh... I am so language biased

Sorry for not being clearer. My kids wanting to go get lunch so I was kinda rushing.

This isn't code, they are configuration strings sent over the terminal. Very low level "make this thing do this."

When you want to program using Python you would use the libfastpinball driver. https://github.com/fastpinball/libfastpinball

When you want to make it super easy to make a complete game you would use MPF https://missionpinball.com/framework/ which uses the libfastpinball to control the FAST hardware.

All I was showing (trying to) is that you can send config strings tying switches to hardware and make things come to life without any high level code at all. Just a serial over USB connection using a terminal app.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Or, you know, pyprocgame on a proc board today. Comes with Starter.py - setup the hardware config, change like 4 noted lines in starter.py and *POOF* flipping game.

Yeah yeah - for programming newbies, readable syntax languages are much easier to grok than diving in to your beloved C++. In my experience anyway.

That is another way to do it for sure!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Heheheh I know, I'm just being a goon

I never quit just procrastinated for a while and then decided to start working on models etc. Before buying all the parts I wanted to be comfortable and started reading up and just got a little overwhelmed as have absolute zero program experience. I will see what FAST does and then launch in with one of the products out there. Until then still have alot of models to draw and have fun with.

I'm really scratching my head imagining how you ultimately crafted your insanely awesome solid works skills, but following 5-7 steps in a wiki as a deal breaker... something isn't clicking for me here as I try to build my mental model of you

This has been bandied about a lot. The P-ROC-centric PyProcGame's starter.py will get you to that point quickly: a very generic flipping game, but that's not exactly what you're looking for --or at least, you wouldn't be happy with it once you had it. You'll need to start tweaking it, and it's not that hard to do. I'm working on developing a layer on top of PyProcGame --and I have been working on it for a little while now-- and there will be a release soon. I don't want to over-hype it. It will not "make everything easy" --it will make many things easier.

If you can swing engineering based problem solving and have learned solidworks, I'm sure you can learn to code in Python for PyProcGame. At the risk of repeating myself (though some clearly don't read posts at pinball controllers): Don't be afraid of Python, or PyProcGame.

I teach a Computer Architecture course to second year Computer Science majors at the College where I work. While they have been programming in C++ until this point, they have never done python prior to this course. To catch them up, I assign as "reading" the completion of specific units in Code Academy's Python units. We then talk for almost a full week's worth of classes about programming with PyProcGame, the majority of time feels like it's spent just conveying the basic operation of pinball machines (which most of us already know). Then they spend about two weeks with a skeletal Game class and an example mode or two to complete their final projects --a group based game built in pyprocgame. I will create a new thread for this year's submissions over on pinballcontrollers, but they were pretty awesome. That takes them about a month... while they are taking other classes.

So, basically, don't be afraid of Python or PyProcGame: I'm sure you can pick it up.

Also, we are a pretty active community over there, and if you ask for help over there, you will get it

I'm pretty sure you can just say "C++11" and most C++ purists will just back away...

Hey... I like tuples...

If you coded in AS2, Python will be a breath of fresh air. If it was AS3, then you'll really appreciate it. In all seriousness, if you've done any programming, then you can totally so this. When you learned ActionScript I know you didn't have resources like Code Academy at your disposal. The online tools that exist to help teach programming are stellar now.

Me too. Though a purist would attack you with a Vector for such blasphemy.

I think the changes to the .yaml file required to get something working are all quite easy and simple to follow and that is not where the initial problems exist. For me (a software developer) I have repeatedly run into problems due to dependencies required. The one click installer definitely helps in that regard but I have still had issues on multiple machines where I have to fix error after error while using the one click installer. - That isn't user friendly for a beginner. I imagine that a larger proportion of these errors are due to my environment (the compiler packaged with the one click installer gets confused in an existing visual studio environment) so a beginner would hopefully have a clean machine.

I've also run into similar problems when using MPF so at the moment that isn't the silver bullet framework.
Designing/building pinball machines is hard though. I wouldn't expect it to be easy and happen with the single click of a button. Though hoping for something that gets a good portion of the way is certainly achievable. If I ever get started on my software and it turns out half decent I'll look into turning it generic so that others can benefit from it.

Also, going back to the 3D printed models for placement and testing layout...
What about embedding them with magnets and then sticking another one under the playfield to hold them in place so you don't have to glue or screw anything? Not sure how big they would have to be to work through the playfield though?

Or lay a sheet of metal on top of the playfield with magnet in each of the 3D printed parts and just stick them onto that. Wouldnt need to be very strong at all then.

I have no idea what this even means. And I wrote a fully (essentially) functional game in pyprocgame.

<Derail>

The 'auto' keyword. God damn I hate that (and c#'s 'var' as well). Be explicit dammit!
</Derail>

Thanks for the drawing compliment but last I looked admittedly at the wiki was close to a year ago as been busy with models, mods and a daughter that nearly died.

Everyone has their skills and I prefer the visual approach having used cad and solidworks for many years and working in the mech eng. field. Someone can give me a few photos or sketches and I can get a design close based off very little. I am sure I could get into the code but had a few issues loading other software for programming other things a while ago and just got me frustrated. But I will give it another go soon.

Each to their own.

Well I guess everybody is willing to help you get through the initial jitters of coding swinks

Update 3 - (1-1-15) - I added a Version 2 of the 2 part post for added grip for linking 2 x SS vertical ball guide strips. The post still has the same 13mm footprint but changing to square as opposed to round increases the clamping surface area to 2 ball guides.ball guide joiner post.png

"Best thread ever" - CBG

Got a set of four of these printing right now, I even used translucent orange to match your render color.

Just another reason I'm jealous of the guys with 3D printers.

Cool, don't know why I chose orange but made it semi transparent so people can see the hidden details.

3d printers aren't without issues. Our professional Stratasys at work has issues about once a month now (usually clogged nozzles, broken material, or the platform needing shimming). Of course it's also 8 years old and just became obsolete (no more service support) so we'll be buying a new version this year. Thankfully the hobby market has pushed prices down while innovating (reducing failed parts, making printing more reliable). Even professional printers are following the same path. Our old printer cost $150k 8 years ago, the new one is $120k, has a better LCD interface, is faster and more reliable (and warns you when service parts are likely to go bad like nozzles and belts).

With that said, if you really want to get into 3d printing, shapeways isn't a terrible way to go if you're patient, or if you want to save money and deal local, there's a couple websites that can hook you up with local hobby printers:

https://www.3dhubs.com/
http://www.makexyz.com

I'm sure it varies by area, I'm actually surprised you didn't get better response in the california area with all the maker sheds out there. I got some parts made from a local guy, had really great communication throughout.

here is a playfield doodle template for people to sketch their ideas on. The playfield, backboard, stiffeners, flippers, lane guides, slingshots, trough hole and rear slider bracket holes are all correct in relation to a early 90's Bally playfield, except for the shooter lane insert.

just print off and doddle your game ideas knowing the basics are to scale. The image isn't as bad as what is represented in the thread. I will provide a better one straight from the drawing package in about 1-2 weeks.

I will add more info on to it soon, pop bumpers, certain SS dividers between the out lane and the shooter lane etc.

playfield doodle.jpg

Very cool and useful