Let's figure out the minimum parts to build a whitewood


By Aurich

2 years ago


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    There are 1817 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 37.
    17
    #1 2 years ago

    So I've been thinking, it's becoming easier every month to get into the world of custom pins. We have competing companies making the brains (FAST, P Roc, Ben Heck's board, the Mission framework, etc). The programming is becoming more available, it's in theory really not hard to get a flipping whitewood together.

    Maybe you're not going to be the next Spooky. But it sounds like a lot of fun to tinker with. I'd personally dig having a blank playfield canvas that flipped where I could try out my own ideas, figure out geometry, and just generally play around.

    People ask about pinball kits all the time, I think there's a general interest in trying to play with building a pin.

    If you were to pick up one of the above "brains" and wanted to tinker, what would be the bare minimum you'd need? Let's skip the cabinet for the moment, and just look at the playfield itself. You could use a donor cab, buy a flat pack kit, we can worry about that later.

    So to start, a plywood playfield. Ideally CNC'd with the basics, like the shooter lane (tricky to DIY) and let's say all the holes and slots for a basic Italian Bottom game. Flippers, lanes, slings.

    So you'd need to buy flipper mechs, bats, rubber. You'd need inlane guides. Slingshot mechs, switches, posts, and rubber. Outlane posts.

    What else? Wood for the sides and back to keep the ball contained. Probably wood for the left half of the shooter lane. A metal guide of some kind at the top to direct the ball after plunging. That starts getting into specific game design though.

    What else am I missing? Just to get something you can shoot. Then you can start putting your own personal ideas down. Build temp ramps and see how the angles work, etc. Drill your own holes to put in targets or 3D printed guides. You'll scrap it all and CNC a better one later after you figure it out I'm sure.

    #2 2 years ago

    Back in the day, Bally sold a blank playfield with the ball return stuff cut out and the shooter lane routed for $35.

    #3 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Back in the day, Bally sold a blank playfield with the ball return stuff cut out and the shooter lane routed for $35.

    Wow, really? Who was taking advantage of that?

    #4 2 years ago

    Its probably easier to go the VP route like WOOLY did first. Then you could get the playfield cut after you make your first pass. The thing about changing lanes/ramps etc is lining up everything (inserts, wireforms etc)

    Its a cool idea and I wish I had the knowhow to try

    #5 2 years ago

    I've looked into this. really depends on how you go about it (investment in equipment). Just the playfield alone (cnc'd routed, ink, inserts, clear) you're talking minimum $500 (CPR is probably not far off). Add a pair of flipper mechs ($90), flipper bats, a few posts, and a basic way to drive it (no code, just flipping) which means hitting it with 48v for 1/2 a second then switching to 12v for holding.

    If you ignore the finished playfield portion (just picking up a reasonable sheet of 1/2" baltic birch), I bet you can make a starting whitewood for prototyping for around $160.. but keep in mind that's no shooter, no ball trough. That's placing a ball, playing, and then manually putting the ball back into play.

    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    So I've been thinking...

    Oh, dang. Aurich is throwing his hat in the boutique game! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!

    Just messin', man. From one artist to another, enjoy the tinkering.

    Ryan Claytor
    Elephant Eater Comics
    http://www.ElephantEater.com

    #7 2 years ago

    In quantity, silkscreened, finished playfields are $250 each.

    #8 2 years ago

    I have been keen to do this myself and probably going the more complex route but will potentially be alot easier for others. I am making 3D models of all the parts so you visually can move things around and see if things will work, have room or not. I have finished the cabinet so I can make a flat pack from and now gearing up to make the models of many of the playfield parts.

    I just had a heap of inserts arrive in the last week to start modelling.

    #9 2 years ago

    $500 sounds about right to me if you add up all the parts. That's not including the control boards.

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from jamieflowers:

    Its probably easier to go the VP route like WOOLY did first. Then you could get the playfield cut after you make your first pass. The thing about changing lanes/ramps etc is lining up everything (inserts, wireforms etc)
    Its a cool idea and I wish I had the knowhow to try

    Eh, I'm pretty uninterested in that. Definitely a super valid approach, but I'd want to play with real physics, and get my hands dirty. Virtual is great, but I think it also encourages WOOLY like games. Meaning 6 flippers and upper playfields and all that.

    When you're forced to work physically you're going to stay more realistic. And learning how to actually make a ramp is part of the fun/challenge.

    Besides, I spend all damn day on the computer. You can tell when work is slow, my Pinside post count goes up. I need to step away and do things with my hands. That's how I got into pinball in the first place, I build a virtual cab from scratch, and it was my gateway drug.

    #11 2 years ago

    I freehand-routed my own inserts in a playfield design back in 2000...without a CNC. I used a hole saw for saucer shots and a Dremel to dig the shooter groove. I used a jigsaw for the bottom design. It was not fun at all. Some of the insert holes have gaping holes around them, but they are otherwise flush when the inserts are installed. I used the cheap 1/2" crap plywood from Home Depot and retraced a previous playfield to drill out holes for the trough, flippers, switches, etc. Now with the sage wisdom of Pinside, I'll get some good Baltic birch and re-do it properly.

    As for the CNC, I may just make insert templates and hand rout it that way, since I don't have CAD. Any word on decent CAD programs on the Mac? I've got an old MacBook from 2008.

    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Eh, I'm pretty uninterested in that. Definitely a super valid approach, but I'd want to play with real physics, and get my hands dirty.

    Hank approves. Dinos V Monster Trucks 4 EVA!

    #13 2 years ago

    Parts:
    1) A sheet of 24"x48"x0.5" plywood from Home Depot or Lowe's. ~$15
    2) At least 1 flipper, preferably 2. ~$40 each
    3) A few sheets of thick cardboard from Michaels or Target or something for guides and ramps. $3->$8
    4) A few packs of 1.5" panhead machine screws from Home Depot or Lowe's. ~$2 a pack of 10 I think
    5) 0.5" hex head machine screws from Home Depot or Lowe's (Not the self drilling kind!). ~$10 for 100 I think
    6) 40 typical star posts from Pinball life. ~$0.40 each in quantity.
    7) 30 minimum 1.9" screw-in studs from Pinball Life. ~$1.5 each I think
    125-Piece White Rubber Ring Set from Pinball Life. ~$30
    9) Proc/Fast/Whatever kit for controlling stuff $600->$1000
    10) Old used computer with a compiler of some type $100 off CL

    Tools Required:
    1)Hand Drill
    -0.0625" bit for dimpling and wire guides (if used)
    -0.5" bit for flipper holes and GI holes
    -Philips bit
    -Hex bit
    -Bit Extension adapter (1.5" minimum)
    2)Circular Saw (Hand or table)
    3)Hand Router with 1/4" bit

    Add or remove additional parts as needed:
    Slingshots
    Trough
    Opto PCB
    Kickers
    Poppers
    Jet Bumpers
    Targets
    Target Banks
    Rollovers
    Misc switches and brackets
    Wire Guides
    Common Ramps
    Large piece of sheet metal from lowes for custom guides and ramps and brackets.
    etc...

    It adds up over time.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from RyanClaytor:

    Oh, dang. Aurich is throwing his hat in the boutique game! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!

    Never say never I guess, but no, that's definitely not an ambition right now. I'm a hands-on curious kind of person though, so playing with a whitewood sounds like fun.

    Right now pinball is built around economies of scale. Great for Stern, not so good for smaller shops. I'm curious how you could make small runs more efficient if you couldn't leverage quantity buying power.

    That means designing smart, with that in mind from the beginning. See my above virtual point.

    I'm kind of regretting not giving myself more CAD experience now. I can do vectors for laser cutting no problem, but 3D assembly of parts (like ramps) would have to be a lot of paper models and trial and error instead of easy software.

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    What else am I missing?

    I'm currently at this stage with Spaceballs. I'm finding that there aren't a whole lot of dimensional drawings of pinball parts out there, so I'm having to buy/borrow them and actually measure them and put them into a CAD program.

    I'd probably buy a hooker for someone if they magically had a 3d model of a blank playfield laying around, with all of the slingshot, shooter lane, flipper, etc... geometry figured out.

    I am literally sitting here right now digitizing a model of the 3-bank motorized drop target assembly from BK2K that BadBrick was nice enough to take out of his machine and let me borrow.

    I also ordered a bunch of inserts that just arrived this week. I'm going to 3D print router guides and test assemblies. I'll make those models public if anyone wants them.

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    I'm curious how you could make small runs more efficient if you couldn't leverage quantity buying power.
    That means designing smart, with that in mind from the beginning.

    Bingo

    Quoted from Aurich:

    I'm kind of regretting not giving myself more CAD experience now. I can do vectors for laser cutting no problem, but 3D assembly of parts (like ramps) would have to be a lot of paper models and trial and error instead of easy software.

    As odd as it sounds, Virtual Pinball (not future pinball) is great as a first pass schematic for things. Get your sizing right, save a bmp schematic, scale it up to size, print it at Staples. Boom! Ready to drill and lay out.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I'd probably buy a hooker for someone if they magically had a 3d model of a blank playfield laying around, with all of the slingshot, shooter lane, flipper, etc... geometry figured out.

    What format do you need it in?

    #18 2 years ago

    You need a lower apron and the mech to serve the ball back to the shooterlane
    Flipper feeder lanes
    As you say, slingshots and flippers

    Everything else will depend on what you want

    #19 2 years ago

    I have about $700 in boards, and ~$500 in playfield components in my home waiting for me to do something with them. I'm sure there are missing components, but so far its roughly enough for a whitewood with 2 flippers + mechs, three pops, two slings and assorted posts, rubbers, guides etc...

    I have a pile of old junk to use for spare switches, targets and metal components like ball trough parts and whatnot. Those will add cost eventually, but for now it's theoretically functional.

    I also have a small selection of playfield items modeled in Solidworks, and a few templates for pop bumper and slingshot cutouts. No word on how accurate they are yet

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    You need a lower apron and the mech to serve the ball back to the shooterlane
    Flipper feeder lanes
    As you say, slingshots and flippers
    Everything else will depend on what you want

    Technically, you don't really need an apron. Wire guides would serve the same purpose, and would probably be much cheaper (remember, this is a whitewood, not a production game )

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I'd probably buy a hooker for someone

    Don't you normally rent those?

    #22 2 years ago

    Oh, forgot to mention- WIRE! Don't underestimate the cost of lots of wire colours! You'll need at least 9 18 gauge colours and 10 20+ gauge colours. If you find a good place to get spools of striped wire, go for it. Colour code everything as best you can.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    Oh, forgot to mention- WIRE! Don't underestimate the cost of lots of wire colours!

    For homebrew or prototype purposes, buy white, and a pack of sharpies in different colors. Then 3D print a little holder thingy for the sharpie and pull the wire thru it. Presto, you have color ID wire

    Well, at least that's what I did...

    #24 2 years ago

    Sharpies bleed and fade within months.

    I've seen some prototype/homebrew builds where most of the colors are the same, and they just label the ends with tags of some sort.

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    but 3D assembly of parts (like ramps) would have to be a lot of paper models and trial and error instead of easy software.

    From what I have played with, 3D modelling ramps (in Solidworks at least) and wireforms is horrendously painful. It's not hard, but the time in vs usefulness out is not a great balance. I think a more free-form modelling suite would work much better but my day to day life is all Solidworks machining/manufacturing/fabrication type stuff so my artistic/freeform/surface modelling skill is non-existent.

    My intention is to use foam core/cardstock and 3D printing to develop the geometry then 3D model the prototype afterwards.

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Sharpies bleed and fade within months.

    Welllll then you need to work faster

    Then you won't need so many pre-orders

    #27 2 years ago

    I'd start with a sheet of white cardboard and magic markers.

    Draw your hopes and dreams on both sides. Different colors for mechs and wires. Playfield supports and brackets for boards and wire harnesses.

    Add it all up and start ordering. Then move onto whitewood. Then get fancy and swap all over to your finished playfield.

    LTG : )™
    Disclaimer : You might want to do 40 or 50 cardboard drawings first as you move into shot layouts and stuff.

    #28 2 years ago

    When I first proto something I use solid coloured wire that I can get locally. Not really ideal since when you have 2 lamp banks + 2 swich banks (bus of 32 wires) those same 8 colours get confusing to follow.

    With Haunted Cruise (and future games now too), once I know of what worked I then bought correct wire colours from Bay Area Amusements. Not the cheapest way to do it, but the easiest for sure. I could ensure my lamps were yellow stripped, switches were green stripped, optos orange stripped, ect. It's very easy to find and debug a bad wire now.

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I'd probably buy a hooker for someone if they magically had a 3d model of a blank playfield laying around, with all of the slingshot, shooter lane, flipper, etc... geometry figured out.

    I'm about 60% of the way to a 3d model of a PF with the standard "Italian bottom" with 2 flippers, single inlane guides, 2 slings. I also have the cut patterns for pop bumpers, and the PF side of a pop bumper assembly modelled.

    No verification on the geometry being 'acceptable' but I have homebrew pinball as my new years resolution...

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I'm currently at this stage with Spaceballs. I'm finding that there aren't a whole lot of dimensional drawings of pinball parts out there, so I'm having to buy/borrow them and actually measure them and put them into a CAD program.
    I'd probably buy a hooker for someone if they magically had a 3d model of a blank playfield laying around, with all of the slingshot, shooter lane, flipper, etc... geometry figured out.
    I am literally sitting here right now digitizing a model of the 3-bank motorized drop target assembly from BK2K that BadBrick was nice enough to take out of his machine and let me borrow.
    I also ordered a bunch of inserts that just arrived this week. I'm going to 3D print router guides and test assemblies. I'll make those models public if anyone wants them.

    like this still have to model the underneath mechs but using 2005 solidworks on a mac but their are other free programs to design with.

    Playfield - 27-2-14.jpg

    maybe you can help me with the programming wolf marsh and we can file share.

    here is the cabinet almost done.

    Screenshot 2.pngScreenshot.jpg

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    like this still have to model the underneath mechs but using 2005 solid works on a mac

    maybe you can help me with the programming.
    here is the cabinet almost done.

    Playfield - 27-2-14.jpg 32 KB

    Screenshot 2.png 23 KB

    Screenshot.jpg 37 KB

    Nice! Way further ahead than myself.

    I'm definitely not modelling a cab either though. At least not till I start taking pre-orders and I need a nice render

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    like this still have to model the underneath mechs but using 2005 solid works on a mac

    maybe you can help me with the programming.
    here is the cabinet almost done.

    Playfield - 27-2-14.jpg 32 KB

    Screenshot 2.png 23 KB

    Screenshot.jpg 37 KB

    Yes! Just like that. Someone else is hooking me up with some stuff as well, but I'll gladly take more if you are willing to share! Let me know via PM.

    I can definitely help with programming. The spaceballs board set looks like its going to cost about $140 to make, so that's another option as well.

    My christmas break started yesterday, so now I'm into my heavy winter project season. Let the fun begin.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Yes! Just like that. Linoleum is hooking me up with some stuff as well, but I'll gladly take more if you are willing to share! Let me know via PM.
    I can definitely help with programming. The spaceballs board set looks like its going to cost about $140 to make, so that's another option as well.
    My christmas break started yesterday, so now I'm into my heavy winter project season. Let the fun begin.

    If anyone wants to set up a drop box or something, I would happily dump a folder of solidworks pinball crap into it in exchange for other solidworks pinball crap haha.

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Yes! Just like that. Linoleum is hooking me up with some stuff as well, but I'll gladly take more if you are willing to share! Let me know via PM.
    I can definitely help with programming. The spaceballs board set looks like its going to cost about $140 to make, so that's another option as well.
    My christmas break started yesterday, so now I'm into my heavy winter project season. Let the fun begin.

    what program are you using as sharing does get challenging when some use inventor and others solid works etc. Happy to help and keen for 2015 to be the year to get a white wood flipping as well.

    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    If anyone wants to set up a drop box or something, I would happily dump a folder of solidworks pinball crap into it in exchange for other solidworks pinball crap haha.

    This is a good idea, are you able to save them as a 2005 solid works file?

    #35 2 years ago

    My biggest handbrake is programming and just wish a basic system was out there with the initial program available with hit start button, load ball, flippers, slings, pops and targets was already programmed in and you just assigned a number to link with your wiring. I have stalled for over a year because I did not want to have a pinball sitting there unable to flip.

    But I also know that once you dive in a lot can be learned.

    #36 2 years ago

    Design and rules programming is easy and fun. Finishing and polishing is tedious and hard. Just having a flipping whitewood and rules does not make a complete table, though it does make a fun one-of-a-kind toy

    #37 2 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    what program are you using as sharing does get challenging when some use inventor and others solid works etc. Happy to help and keen for 2015 to be the year to get a white wood flipping as well.

    This is a good idea, are you able to save them as a 2005 solid works file?

    No I don't believe SW can save as old versions, but we could save iges/step/parasolid stuff that would still provide geometry and whatnot.

    If there's enough people who want to talk homebrew on the mechanical end, not so much software, we should make a thread or google group or something. I don't know how active it would be but I know there's a bunch of mechs, geometry, and dimensions I could use measured or checked that I don't have access to, and I'm sure there's the odd thing I could measure or check for other folks.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    Design and rules programming is easy and fun. Finishing and polishing is tedious and hard. Just having a flipping whitewood and rules does not make a complete table, though it does make a fun one-of-a-kind toy

    I agree but it's a start and comforting to at least test the shots. Everyone is different where I find 3d cad fun and easy where others wouldn't.

    But agree it would be fun to have a small resource group to share and help others get through the areas they don't know.

    cad, programming, vector and you have a small design team.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    As odd as it sounds, Virtual Pinball (not future pinball) is great as a first pass schematic for things. Get your sizing right, save a bmp schematic, scale it up to size, print it at Staples. Boom! Ready to drill and lay out.

    Makes sense. I'd probably do it in Illustrator though, I'm much faster and more comfortable in that. It's not really CAD software, but for a 2D blueprint I can make it work pretty well.

    #40 2 years ago

    I say VP because you can rudimentary test the layout. Physics are very incorrect of course, but gives you an idea at least.

    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I'd start with a sheet of white cardboard and magic markers.
    Draw your hopes and dreams on both sides. Different colors for mechs and wires. Playfield supports and brackets for boards and wire harnesses.
    Add it all up and start ordering. Then move onto whitewood. Then get fancy and swap all over to your finished playfield.
    LTG : )™
    Disclaimer : You might want to do 40 or 50 cardboard drawings first as you move into shot layouts and stuff.

    This is good advice, though I'd probably just do most of that digitally. But speaking personally I'm not a pinball designer. I don't even aspire to be one. When I look at a blueprint of a game it's hard for me to visualize how it will play, I need something more tangible. That's why I love the idea of a basic flipping whitewood, where you can just literally move objects around and shoot at them. I imagine after a time you'll get a feel for things, but hands on learning is what appeals to me.

    Going in $1000 on a setup just to test things isn't a big deal to me.

    #42 2 years ago

    I remember in some of Ben Heck's shop-casts Jpop mentioned that it's better to design on foamcore/cardboard/wood then on a computer because you'd get more organic designs. Once you have a shot or curve you like measure it and mark it in cad. This is something I've started doing that and it really is much better then pure cad designing.

    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    I remember in some of Ben Heck's shop-casts Jpop mentioned that it's better to design on foamcore/cardboard/wood then on a computer because you'd get more organic designs. Once you have a shot or curve you like measure it and mark it in cad. This is something I've started doing that and it really is much better then pure cad designing.

    This is what I'd do. Start with a playfield size piece of paper and sketch things out, then hack it together in nordmanite (tm) and hot-glue.

    #44 2 years ago

    Don't forget the power supply.

    The Other Hardware: http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?board=6.0
    and
    Miscellaneous : http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0
    forums at Pinball Controllers have a lot of discussions about this stuff, but it's never come together 100% as far as CAD libraries, playfield blanks, etc.

    23
    #45 2 years ago

    For "Dinos vs Monster trucks" I started with a cad drawing printout then built it up with foam and cardboard and some junk parts just to see if it looked like it was going to work. Once everything looked ok we built the whitewood. For the whitewood I used 1"x 1/16 strips of aluminum as ball guides since it is a much easier material to work with to figure out the correct bends.

    arcfoam4.jpg arcpf2.jpg
    #46 2 years ago

    Keith, that's awesome! What kind of wood did you use for the PF?

    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from sk8ball:

    For "Dinos vs Monster trucks" I started with a cad drawing printout then built it up with foam and cardboard and some junk parts just to see if it looked like it was going to work. Once everything looked ok we built the whitewood. For the whitewood I used 1"x 1/16 strips of aluminum as ball guides since it is a much easier material to work with to figure out the correct bends.

    Ah yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Hands-on, raw, getting dirty with it pinball!

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    If anyone wants to set up a drop box or something, I would happily dump a folder of solidworks pinball crap into it in exchange for other solidworks pinball crap haha.

    I would be down for this. I haven't started yet on my prototype but I don't plan on using solid works to model everything. I've already searched all over the web and there just isn't much out there for 3D models of standard parts.

    #49 2 years ago

    You may want to get in touch with this guy:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/3d-taf

    AFAIK he's mentioned in several threads that he's been slowly assembling STLs (or something I assume you could export as an STL with some reasonable level of fidelity) for his render projects.

    #50 2 years ago

    Aurich are you taking pre-orders yet?
    Where do I send my money...

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