To be honest? I suspect it will have little effect on Stern games.

JJP clearly is raising the bar here but ultimately so what? Stern has a playbook they are running and it works for them. Why would they emulate JJP?

I look at the pin market like the automotive market. JJP is like one of those supercar companies and Stern more along the lines of General Motors. Both make cars, one just caters to a different clientele with deeper pockets.

Room for both.

not sure it devalued anything but it sure as hell will change expectations on future machines.

I'm not sure the market is the same for my LOTR and GNR lol

This isn't even all of them.

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What a crock of shit observation.

Delt's just tired of having to post in every GnR thread why he thinks the LE is better then the CE.

The hype train has left the station. The more I look at GNR, the more I think it looks like another mb heavy JJP game with an amazing light show. For the money, I'm still going for avengers prem. Bottom line is they are going to appeal to different audiences and neither will have any effect on the value of other games.

If you want an insane light show with amazing theme integration and non-stop multiballs, GNR is your game.

If you value unique shots and flow, then Avengers is your game.

GnR looks interesting, but my money's going to Avengers.

After 8 years, JJP has yet to make a game compelling enough for me to own. I had a WOZ for a while but it just doesn't shoot well IMHO and I eventually got rid of it. Hobbit, DI, Pirates and Wonka all pretty good games (well, maybe not hobbit), but price and other issues keep me away. In the meantime I've gotten a Maiden and JP2 from Stern and am enjoying the hell out of both of those games. Elwin is bringing new and refreshing ideas and his games shoot great.

GnR might finally be *the* JJP worth getting, but there's no hurry, and I don't see it affecting other games' value. Pinball market overal is too big and there's not that many GnR fans out there who want a pinball machine. Remember, this band is 35 years old </odin>

This thread makes me sad as it turns good pinheads against each other.
Pinball is good, more Pinball is better.

I admit that I was getting the itch to buy one. Then I watched a few minutes of a stream. I mean it still looks very cool but I just fell off the hype train completely.

If games get more advanced utilizing new tech AND becomes more fun, providing a more amusing show and entertainment ofc it will devalue older not so fun and amazing games. This is just as normal as nobody finding an electronic tube fat tv great anymore

Sure there may be a nostalgic and collector value in old things, but as a whole it will devalue lesser and older stuff.
If this continous, which is great btw i dont think the cgc model holds up much longer.

We've come full circle...

WOZ was all about the RGB LEDs
Hobbit was all about the droptargets
DI was the return of Lawlor
PoTC was Eric debut
Wonka was cost cutting after Pirates
and now GnR is all about RGB LEDs again

I'm not remotely interested in GnR, even though I'm a huge JJP fan. I'm eyeing a few rumored Stern titles, though, and you, sir, by virtue of your boundless generosity and good will, are welcome to come to my house to play any and all at your convenience. I'll even provide the beer.

We beg to differ..

https://old.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/

CRTs still offer no motion blur whatsoever, something even the best OLED sets have trouble with. BFI still isn't where it needs to be.

The only game it might devalue is the original DE game, but I really don't see that happening. Although that game isn't in the same league as the new GNR it does have the advantage of having the band in its original form (i.e. skinny Axl)....

PINBALL DRAMA QUEENS ACTIVATE! Too bad the head cheerleader is banned and the minions have to spread the hype. It looks like a nice game. Nothing else has changed.

I actually laughed out loud at work. That was priceless.

Didn’t you and others say they would never sell out of $12500 collectors editions?

Looks like a great game indeed (and the SE might be a genuine bargain), but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet!

Looking at it objectively, it seems as if it is more "evolutionary" than "revolutionary"; I imagine it will ultimately land somewhere in the top 10 on the "charts", but everyone is in the new pin honeymoon phase at this time and it is probably a bit premature to declare that it will finally be THE pin to capture the top spot. (At this point, I still hold the opinion that JJPOTC remains JJP's high-water mark, but of course this is subject to change when I finally get a chance to play GnR.)

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Great point OP. Willing to give your 4k for your Maiden Pro before price goes down even more.

Now Iron Maiden pro there’s a stripped down game!
I shouldn’t state an opinion on this pin because I’ve only played it twice.
First time was a craft beer joint,put a dollar in and played for 13 minutes got sweaty and quit.Dude at the bar yelled you got high score after a couple weeks.Did’nt get the hype,albeit I do like JP 2

To play maybe but to own? Noooo.

I tell them what I pay for pins and they crap their pants.

Casuals like pins till it is time to open the wallet.

I'm on the fence here.

The price for DE-GNR is a bit inflated in my opinion due to the theme. $6000-$7000 for a new GNR is mighty attractive and having another GNR available for purchase might drive down DE prices.

The exclusivity of the title is gone and the JJP title looks chock loaded with cool stuff.

Man, you nailed it! Congrats

I owned a IMDN LE for a couple months. Its a nice shooter, but its not in the same league as JJP's new GNR. I sold the game because I couldn't stand the music. The attention to detail on JJP's GNR is on an entirely different level, but if u don't like the band this might not be the pin for u. In our household theme matters.

All good points...I didn't realize the older DE GNR pins cost that much. If thats the case and u can buy the SE for the same price its a no brainer.

That's a a pretty big 'when'...

New Stern's look great; they are doing a great job in production, design and theme.

The new GnR looks amazing! I love JJP pins, I own 2 at the moment.

However, all I am seeing from Pinsider market ads is prices going up ....maybe Levi has some insight as to the market bubble speculation?

The key to GNR and prices will be a couple things the number of used games coming on to the market exceeds current demand. The game play of the standard edition which looks vastly different than the rest. The LE edition being at $9500 is much higher than many used games. So price wise which is a factor for many the std edition will come into play for most used buyers. If the standard edition is is a great experience then I think you see a down tick in used prices if not it will be prices as usual.

I value both. Thus, I’m getting both

They aren’t mutually exclusive

I never said that.. until this thread I rarely commented on JJP. I had no idea their prior CEs hadn't sold out either.

I think they left money on the table at 500 CEs for GnR, but not sure if they realized it would be as big a hit as it is.

I do NOT like them limiting playfield features to the CE. Stern does this correctly with just the extra bling for "CE" and the JJP policy discourages me from considering their games. I want a chance to try the different playfields before buying... if they won't offer that chance, I am less likely to buy any of them.

Iron Maiden Pro has more flippers (4) than GnR LE. It has two spinners, three ramps, two upper loops and very well-written rules. It does NOT have 600 RGB LEDs.

Which game sounds more fun to play?

EDIT, was thinking the flipper was removed from LE, that's the coma mech.. GnR LE does have same amount. SE loses the 4th.

And how many games of GnR have you played?

I doubt it has much effect on the prices of other games but I'm really excited for Eric and JJP and it's great to see that they have a major hit on their hands! I hope they sell a ton of them. I'm out on any machine at the $10K price point, but if it's a major seller that improves my odds of finding an LE for a good price in the HUO market 6 months or a year from now.

I am always amused at the camp who thinks the more crap on a game the "better" the game is.

These are the same people who usually end up selling said game with 50 plays on it after two years.

They have the same number of flippers but I think Maiden Pro makes better use of the upper flippers.

I bought Iron Maiden despite not being a fan of Iron Maiden's music based primarily on gameplay and rule-set. It will be interesting to see if the same can be said for this game. Will people still buy it in droves if they don't care for GNR's music? I think it looks fantastic because I am a big GNR fan, but I'm not sure if I would have much interest if it was themed after another band like Iron Maiden, etc. I definitely need to play it to see if the gameplay and rules hold up.

I believe that GnR has 4 flippers as well.

Extra flippers don't always make a better game. I have one in my lineup that I positively hate at times since the extra flipper will block the path of the ball if not sucked back in promptly.

ZERO....to me theme matters thus the type of music matters...I love GNR music and hated IMDN (to each their own). With IMDN I wanted to see if game play would over shadow the music, and it did not for me. I'm not taking away the fact the game is well designed with great rules. Clearly JJP did a great job with theme integration and assets. Now does that make the game a great shooter? I don't know yet, but POTC certainly was great so I have a lot of faith in the design team.

GNR

I believe new games like this actually increase the overall general interest in Pinball and increase the value of older games.

New people are coming into Pinball as a result of these new titles. Themes like Star Wars, Teanage Mutand Ninja Turtles, Rick and Morty and surely Guns and Roses become gateway pins that cross people over from other genres and they wind up buying a pin because they are interested in the theme.
Next thing you know, one pin turns into two. Two pins turn into three and so on.
This drives up the price of classic pins as new blood comes into the hobby. Unlike modern pins, the survival rate on older classic pins in no where near as high and there is a finite supply. Hence prices go when there is more demand than supply to meet it.
As prices continue to rise on NIB pins, older pins that can be had much cheaper than NIB items look pretty darn desirable from a monetary standpoint.

Well first of all, I just love that this topic has so many downvotes. Secondly, and more importantly, I wish you were right. The market trend is more the opposite. As pins get more expensive, it is raising all other pins up with it. I certainly wouldn't have predicted it, but here we are buying getaways for 3500 dollars, now, instead of 1700.

Also, for all these talks about extra flippers magically making the game better, how come haunted house isnt ranked number 1 on pinside top 100?

Precisely.
A rising tide lifts all boats.

or paying $9-12K for a great example (restored) Williams IJ ....I love the game, but the prices are nuts.

Maybe after a 30-45 minute game of fat Axl, endless multiballs, eye tracers from lightshow overload and wondering who the hell Melissa or Frank is it will end up being a good/fun game that GNR fans will love but will be hit and miss with most pin players.

a dark night by DarkKnight hardy har.

Luckily there are all types of machines and people in the hobby.
Personally when I hear someone say "After watching videos of a machine..." I know this person is not someone I need to listen to.
To each their own.

Like you said, theme matters!