Are you still drooling over this game? Pinside has already moved on to Stage Two of any new game: complaining about the gameplay. We seem to go through this with every new release. POTC didn't have any effect on game values, and this won't either. I'm in for a Zeppelin no matter how "empty" the people on Pinside think it looks...and I know there are a ton of other people who feel the same way.

All of these GnR threads need to be combined. It's getting ridiculous....

Oh Look! A shiney new thing is out and people are losing their minds!

I doubt it. Watch the prices keep rising across the board for used and new non JJP GnR pins. That being said, if this actually is the case (despite my doubts), I'm in on any modern LCD Stern for $3,000 if anyone who has one jumps on the "devalue train". I will even go as far as slapping a sympathy card* down along with the cash on the glass.

*Card states "I am sorry about the devaluation of your item". It says "item" instead of pinball machine in case JJP GnR devalues EVERYTHING, like housing, automobiles, etc. I want to get out in front of this.

I disagree.

First, there's room for everybody. Second, price point on Stern Pro's and the significantly more glitzy GnR LE is $3,500 difference.

I already own Hobbit and PotC. I was considering GnR but it offers nothing to entice me as far as shots, layout and gameplay go.

People complain about Sterns being too lean, cheaply made etc...but one could also make the argument that JJP is a bit over the top with features and could have de-cluttered the playfield of GnR a bit. It's got a giant movie screen showing concert clips of the middle-aged GnR. Great, but if I want that I'll watch a concert movie of GnR. It's got full-length songs. Great, but again if I want that I'll listen to Appetite on my stereo.

When I play pinball, I want to play pinball and have clear, challenging shots and objectives to try to master.

In the past year, I would argue that Stern has moved their shots, layout, conception and execution to the next level. Particularly: JP2; EHOH; Turtles and now AIQ.

Admittedly, quality is a little on the questionable side but then again Sterns pros offer great "value" for $6,000 IMO.

JJP are the "Ferrari" with all the features and goodies. I have 2 already and I don't need more.

IMO, Stern is breaking it open with clear, genius layouts and well-thought-out codes, modes and shot geometry.

Both companies are "great" and to each his own...but at this time, I think Stern are cranking out some all-time greats.

I'm out for GnR but can hardly wait to see what Steve Ritchie comes up with for Led Zep! GoT is ugly as shit, but I LOVE my LE and will probably never part with it.

Not at all. Cool your jets. A statement like this is insane! Maybe it’s a good shooting pin...maybe not? Fomo will eventually subside and we will all move on to the next shiny new thing.

I think it is great that new innovations are making their way into Pinball. Each company producing games is upping many aspects of Pinball and in creating more options for those of us that love this hobby/business. I love the trend we have in pinball right now, many choices, different levels of machines (pro, prem, le, ce, etc), code on games being better orchestrated than ever before, lighting schemes and art packages being developed by very talented people within our industry. I don't ever try to predict what will happen in the future or when it will change for the worse, I'm just glad to be riding this want with an awesome group.

Cheers!

Pinball manufacturers need to stop this insane production of new games!
All these new games make our old ones worth less MONEY!
We need to put those evil bastards out of business to protect our investments!
/sarc

Poppycock....

Oh no, another pinvestment crisis.

when JJP released WoZ, it was a game changer, did it devalue NIB sterns or older titles?
No

Capitalism requires that the current item be devalued so that there is a reason to purchase a new one. Everything devalues eventually, or else on one would buy anything new.

It is the shiny new thing for sure,but the sound and light show is way above any of its predecessors!!!Wow

But how does it play? We always hear about the "box of lights" on this site...but in the end it IS a game, and if it's no fun to shoot it doesn't matter how pretty it is to look at. I can't wait to try one out, but I'll hold the jury at bay until I get a chance to.

It plays great. Being in the Northeast, it shouldn't be too hard to get your hands on one and check it out. The "devaluing" thing is just dumb however.

No games devalued just because a new game comes out. And the verdict is still out isn’t it? Yes the box of technology looks like a great concert simulator light show machine, but is it a fun game? I wager there is a risk of too much going on in the experience. But hey I do hope for the best. It looks like it has potential.

How does it play?Ask the Pinsides that have played it.The best reveiws here are the ones that didn’t want to like it!

Maybe quite the opposite. I think this game may bring in more pinball fans. My first game was a DE GNR back in 2013. I wanted it not because I was a pinhead at the time....but because I thought it would be cool to have that specific machine as I was a big fan. Sure I used to play a little at the arcade when I was young....but I never thought I'd now own 6 and going on 7 today. It may do the same for a lot of others.

What's Dialed In LE now? $6500-7000ish? That's 3K less than retail. JJP POTC is different due to the rarity of it. Hobbit really sunk. Theme wise, I don't think GNR would ever sink like those due to theme alone, but clearly there's an effort to eliminate mechs (heck, they even eliminated switches in some places) just due to maintenance and expense.

Ultimately the code is going to determine where this lands. Seems like the layout is good enough, but the multiball / extra ball / ball save code is puzzling.

You can get booed off stage apparently if you don't hit shots, but how would that be possible when every mode is a multiball?

Every mode isn't really a multiball. When you go to one ball you are still playing in the song mode. Even if you have multiball going during a song, if your meter goes down you can still get booed off the stage. Your flippers go dead, all balls drain, ball is put in shooter lane. You will still be playing the same ball but not in the song anymore.

Dark night at Stern again? I think GnR looks fantastic but c'mon. I hope it is a huge hit for JJP and all but it's not like everyone wants just one very expensive pin.

I think WOZ was a bigger step forward and it didn't devalue older games. If JJP's GNR devalued anything it was the relationship between their distributors and customers.

I realize that they're not all multi balls, but it's SO easy to achieve, that's what you do. If there's someone streaming this and they're NOT playing a multiball, it means they're distracted with chat or something. Seems like in 3 shots you can add add-a-ball almost anytime.

I get what you're saying. I think you're right that in general new pins don't reduce the value of older ones noticably. I just wanted to say because this affected me personally that when jjp potc was announced and shown the prices of stern potc took a nosedive. I was selling a stern potc at the time and was pretty disappointed my pin was now worth much less. Many people were excited by the JJP pirates when it was first shown and wanted to hold out for the jjp version. Same thing happened with jjp guns and roses, someone on here had a data east gnr for around $3k

Rare case I know, in general new pins don't affect old ones.

Sounds like we need some more WOZ games produced! I wouldn’t mind adding one back in my collection one day.

GNR will bring new people into the hobby. As a result of being bit by the pinball bug they will start to buy more machines. End result, prices of pins will continue to go up. My vision of buying up all the pins after a pinball crash continues to fade. All good, nothing more to see here.

The only way I can think of getting booed off stage during multiball would be if someone tried to cradle on the left. Cradling drains the meter faster and may outweigh and shots hit

Absolutely correct. That's the exception to the rule. If it's the same theme, then yes...it will devalue the previous game. Same thing happened with Jurassic Park as well.

When Deeproot releases the Pinbar it will deflate the GnR price. Lol

COMPLETELY AGREE..............................

Same thing was said when AC/DC premium came out, as it instantly dated every other game in the lighting department.

And prices since the release in 2012.......have gone up......and up...... and up!

Data East Star Wars prices skyrocketed after Stern Star Wars came out, DE Jurassic Park also popped up in price but not as large a margin.

DE Star Trek seems to have not moved around very much though, gone up a bit with normal pinflation.

This game will have no impact on the long term pinball landscape.

I didn't know that. It seemed the opposite to me. I stand corrected...

This isn't going to have any effect on existing games, but Stern watches and learns, and I'm fearful it will have an effect on future Stern games.

JJP LE is the equivalent of Stern Premium, but $2K more. JJP CE is the equivalent of Stern LE, but $3K more. I think this will show Stern that they can raise prices and still be cheaper than JJP on their similar tier games. We can all say they need to up the quality to justify the prices, but hot themes sell and people keep buying. It's almost a given this will raise Stern Premium and LE prices - with or without quality increases.

Also, JJP has now introduced a differentiation between the upper tiers to entice more people to buy the top tier. Stern has been getting by with cosmetic-only differences between Premium and LE, but has kinda been moving the DLC direction with the toppers. I think GnR will start a trend of all 3 tiers having different gameplay features.

I hope I'm wrong, because I'm not crazy about either of these developments if they come true, but the bottom line is getting the real "full featured" game is going to get a lot more expensive.

It is clearly the greatest game in pinball history... until the next game comes out that is.

There’s a new GnR pin?

Not in this lifetime.

Pinside and new games are super predictable. New game is announced, its the best thing ever. Game comes out and the complaints begin. Newer games are announced, game is now old news. Code is shallow so game goes down in value. If its lucky it gets code updates to the point where it is considered an amazing game again.

As for OP's argument WOZ didn't devalue 90s B/W titles. There is a massive difference between it and those. Not really a massive difference between this and WOZ.

Exceptions are games that get short runs and have interesting stories, see TBL, BBB, Alien. Not games that are cut short because they just failed to sell, see FT, CSI, NBA, etc.

If the machines are fun for you then the value is priceless no matter how long you own the machine
Respectfully, if you are looking for investments do your own due diligence and check out the stock market, real estate or business.
Hobby investment decisions can go well or poorly.

I'm thinking that's not really how the free market works. I believe the opposite of your argument is the case due to pinball machines being complementary (i.e. the demand for one drives up the demand for others). While there is a limited supply, the demand is strong right now across the board. As a result, based upon income and financial position, many/most will choose an alternative which they deem is a better value. However, the perspective on this value has been driven up due to the price points of the new pins (e.g. if a new pin cost $12,000 and I can get a comparable new pin for $8,000 - $10,000 then I perceive that as a value even though the $8K-$10K may still be "overpriced").

Another factor is that those on the fence who need to liquidate a pin in order to purchase a GnR will not want to dump their current pins cheap. They will need to fetch top dollar in order to make the largest contribution as possible for the much higher priced GnR.

My suggested thread title change is "Let's face it people, GNR just raised the price for all machines."

Not even bro, maybe the first GnR made by Data East but not ALL machines. I personally think GnR (the band) gets old quick. Best album was AFD, and Axl Pose is over rated. Slash is the only thing that made this band good. Saw em in concert way back (oh wait I didn’t see much because Axl was busy mainlining or whatever his sissy ass does to not play a concert) and Metallica blew them away. Pass pass pass for me.

Was this even a thing? I dont remember anyone saying once that WOZ would devalue anything.

Been shopping for a DESW to round out my Data East collection, it was a $1800 game 2 years ago and now you can't touch one unless you cough up $3500 minimum with people asking $4500-6500. Sorry for that price I'd grab a Stern SW if I was going to drop $4500 for a Star Wars themed pin. Thinking of buying a Stern Trek again, damn fun game.

Picked up my DEJP reasonable before everything went sideways with covid, it needed a bunch of board work to get 100% (which I did myself) but you can't touch the title now unless you plan on dropping north of $3500-$4000 and up.

Boob, if you buy a GnR, Ill help you carry it in. Those Escalera’s can be dramatic I’m told. Hate for your new pin to fall and devalue itself.

It's time to accept it folks.

The prophecy of the elders (and upvote thirsty noobs) has finally come to pass...

The bubble has burst.

(except for GNR)

GnR is cool, but honestly, if that lightshow was not there, would this still be as cool? No, I highly doubt it, and I also doubt that it would be as much of a sensation as it is right now.
This happens every time. A new game is released, there's a million hype threads, there's a gameplay reveal, and everyone starts complaining in the hype threads, making them a mess of negativity, incomprehensible banter, and downvotes.
But no. GnR is not going to devalue other games.