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(Topic ID: 144144)

Lethal Weapon 3 Coil / Flasher Locked

By eabundy

8 years ago

Topic Heartbeat

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13 posts
5 Pinsiders participating
Latest reply 8 years ago by eabundy
Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Lethal Weapon 3 Data East, 1992

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#1 8 years ago

EAB

Left eject / Saucer coil locks when game is powered on. Flasher 4R will turn on and lock during flasher test. Any flasher tested on the right side relay will also lock the 4R flasher. That flasher will turn off when the relay turns off / switches to the L side.

I have replaced both transistors for the flasher and the saucer, also replaced all 4 7408 chips associated with the coil circuits. All other coils and flashers work as they should. I have also tested the PPB board transistors and diodes, and for good measure swapped out the PPB board with another. Also cut the ground wire to the locked on coil, and then just the flasher locks when the flasher relay is activated.

#2 8 years ago

QB3

Razor

Inactive member

North Bay, ON

10y 26,400 247

Maybe it's more upstream did you test the PIA?

#3 8 years ago

TAB

terryb

Inactive member

Banning, CA

11y 90,150 4,795 14

Got a logic probe?

#4 8 years ago

EAB

eabundy

Pinside member

14y 103K 2,838

Sorry, no logic probe. Looking at the schematics I guess the next chip in line is the 74ls272n chip.

Question..

Can you use a 74ls373n or 74HCT272 to replace the 74ls273n? Reason I ask is I have those handy but do not have a spare 74ls272n yet.

#5 8 years ago

ROB

Borygard

LockWhenLit.com

St Louis, MO

11y 90,050 2,915

Please don't replace the 74LS273 without confirming it's not working. It's very easy to do and logic probes are very reasonably priced. If you're going to be doing this kind of work, you're going to need the proper tools and a logic probe is minimal.

You've already replaced three ICs that have nothing to do with anything you've described, please don't unnecessarily replace any more.

In my experience, with boards that come in for repair with similar issues, most of the time unnecessary previous work is the cause. It gets very frustrating to see things get replaced for no reason, and that part replacement the cause of other issues.

Not saying that's what's happening here, but there's absolutely no gain in changing three of the four 7408s you replaced, only one of them has anything to do with the solenoid driver you're having problems with.

With all that said, if you're going to ignore it all, a 74HCT273 would be fine to at least test with.

Post a photo of the board around Q43. Sufficient burn to the board will continually take out the new driver.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#6 8 years ago

EAB

eabundy

Pinside member

14y 103K 2,838

When I got the machine it had multiple coils locking on. I've had it for over a year and don't remember them all, but I do remember q27 was also blown. The 7408 were replaced because of the multiple coils locking on. That repaired all but the q43 locking, and also why I shotgunned it.

#7 8 years ago

EAB

eabundy

Pinside member

14y 103K 2,838

Pics

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#8 8 years ago

ROB

Borygard

LockWhenLit.com

St Louis, MO

11y 90,050 2,915

Aren't inherited issues fun?

Have you Ohm'ed all the traces at 4J? A floating leg on the 7408 can cause locked on coils.

Can't see the board around the legs of Q43, can you shoot the backside of the board?

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#9 8 years ago

EAB

eabundy

Pinside member

14y 103K 2,838

14474724612731544520900.jpg

#10 8 years ago

ZEN

Pinside member

Waverly, NE

11y 73,550 1,159 12 23

silly question, but is it an led flasher or reg 89 bulb, I only ask because the sand resistor can often have enough slow charge to lock it if its an led... that is if there is one in circuit, I cant remember if the ppb has those or not..

#11 8 years ago

ROB

Borygard

LockWhenLit.com

St Louis, MO

11y 90,050 2,915

Looks good. Go over traces at 4J.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#12 8 years ago

TAB

terryb

Inactive member

Banning, CA

11y 90,150 4,795 14

You've got a lot of bad solder joints on the board (I did not mark them all, just a few as an example). These are at least part of your problem.

In most, but not all, of those cases the lead was heated, but not the pad, or the pad had corrosion on it.

474601.jpg

I would suggest reviewing the following post on soldering.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1

Solder joints.

464568.gif

2 weeks later

#13 8 years ago

EAB

eabundy

Pinside member

14y 103K 2,838

Quoted from Borygard:
Looks good. Go over traces at 4J.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Reflowed solder at 4j. Replaced the 74ls273 with a new 74ls273 and have the same issues. Left saucer locks on (replaced that coil as well) and left flasher locks on when flasher relay is turned on. I obviously have a short somewhere but don't know where yet.

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