(Topic ID: 78287)

Lethal Weapon 3: Balls piling up in outhole (how should this process work?)

By gern

7 years ago


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  • 38 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by jtravillian
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#1 7 years ago

I've recently fixed some things on my Lethal Weapon 3 and have come across another issue. When a ball goes into the outhole it doesn't go any where. I can move the balls over manually and the ball kicker will kick them out and the ball launcher works. But the balls just keep piling up in the outhole area. It would seem that I have an issue with the Outhole Ball Return.

Has any one encountered this before? I am thinking maybe the switch is bad or the coil is bad, I haven't had a chance to check it. I really don't know how the whole process is supposed to work. I am unsure what should happen when a ball enters the outhole.

#2 7 years ago

Does the switch and solenoid show ok in each test?

#3 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

Does the switch and solenoid show ok in each test?

Would that be the diagnostic menu test? I went through the coil test and it never fired. I am still trying to fumble through those menus. The test I did was firing all the coils one after another. It went through the test a few times and it never fired. I am starting to think that I may have a bad transistor. It looks like Q46 is for the outhole.

#4 7 years ago

I'm not sure what transistor is for that coil, but that is certainly something to check. I would also check for voltage, and broken wires at the coil, before I dove into transistors.

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

I'm not sure what transistor is for that coil, but that is certainly something to check. I would also check for voltage, and broken wires at the coil, before I dove into transistors.

Will do. Thanks WOLF. Unfortunately I won't get a chance to check it out until tomorrow... that alone is going to drive me crazy!

#6 7 years ago

Let us know what you find.

#7 7 years ago

I finally got a chance to take a look at the machine. The transistor for the outhole is Q46 according to the manual. That transistor checks out. The coil checks out fine too via my dmm. Through the Diagnostic menu I tested all 4 switches in the outhole/ball trough area. They all registered. From the coil menu I tested the outhole coil and it will not fire. I've checked all the fuses and they appear to be fine. I'm at loss. I have no idea why that coil will not fire.

#8 7 years ago

did you check the diode on the coil?

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

did you check the diode on the coil?

I tested the diode and it was a little over .6, like .645. I replaced it just to be safe and nothing has changed.

#10 7 years ago

As noted in the thread below, I have a capacitor on the Power Supply Board where one of the legs is not connected to the board. It is at C9. There is a picture of it in the thread. Another pinsider (pinnaf), took a picture of his machine and it is connected. Any chance that is related? How would I test the capacitor to see if it is even good? There is a note in my manual that say to disconnect C9, but that note is on the schematic for the Flipper Board.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lethal-weapon-3-ball-launch-coil-fires-then-locks-on-start-up

#11 7 years ago

Is the 'C9' you're referring to on the flipper board, or on a different board?

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

Is the 'C9' you're referring to on the flipper board, or on a different board?

It is on the Power Supply Board and not the Flipper Board. I haven't looked to see if there is a C9 on the Flipper Board.

#13 7 years ago

when you start a game does the machine search for a ball (firering all the coils).
if the machine doesn't count scores, it's gotta be a switch.

looks like a switch related problem.
yes check all the wires and both switch, there is 2 switch actuator in that trought.

#14 7 years ago

There is no C9 on my Flipper Board. The manual also says to remove C4, C9, R12, R13, R28 and R29. So it would appear that C9 should not be connected.

#15 7 years ago

beatmaster, when I start a game the machine will search for the balls if I don't have them in the trough. I can manually place them in the trough right now as I have the apron off. If the balls are in the trough the machine does not search for them. All 4 switches in the trough check out via the diagnostic menu. Is there another way I should test them?

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from gern:

I tested all 4 switches in the outhole/ball trough area. They all registered.

Ok, if you activate the switches in diagnostic test mode, does it change on the display?

#17 7 years ago

ok so switches seems to be fine.

Q46 but you said it's ok but i see Q45 for the trough eject.

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

ok so switches seems to be fine.
Q46 but you said it's ok but i see Q45 for the trough eject.

The trough eject works. The only thing down in the trough area that seems to not work is the outhole coil. I cannot get it to fire.

Quoted from WOLF:

Ok, if you activate the switches in diagnostic test mode, does it change on the display?

It does change the display indicating which switch I activated. All four switches activate according to the diagnostic menu.

It feels like the machine is so close to being ready to play I can taste it! I really appreciate you both taking the time to help me troubleshoot.

#19 7 years ago

I'm sure you have checked that the plunger moves freely in the coil. And so what if you jump power right to the coil, will it fire then?

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from gern:

The trough eject works. The only thing down in the trough area that seems to not work is the outhole coil. I cannot get it to fire.....

you are right outhole is Q46.

now i'm thinking the coil itself, check if the small wire that goes around the coil is not broken close to the diode.
i was thinking a switch return problem on the mpu but for that more than one thing wouldn't work.

check those connectors also on your mpu CN10, CN11

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

I'm sure you have checked that the plunger moves freely in the coil. And so what if you jump power right to the coil, will it fire then?

if the switch works, it's gotta be the coil.

re-check that transistor again driving that coil ... lolllll... never know.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

I'm sure you have checked that the plunger moves freely in the coil. And so what if you jump power right to the coil, will it fire then?

The plunger does move freely. How would I jump power right to the coil?

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

if the switch works, it's gotta be the coil.
re-check that transistor again driving that coil ... lolllll... never know.

Just re-checked it and the transistor is ok. But you're right, better to be safe and double check.

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

if the switch works, it's gotta be the coil.
re-check that transistor again driving that coil ... lolllll... never know.

That's why I wondered about the coil firing with power direct. I just had that happen on one of mine. The coil winding wire broke loose from the lug. Took me half a day to find it, going through all this same stuff.

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from gern:

The plunger does move freely. How would I jump power right to the coil?

On my game, I clip a jumper on the ground braid, and quickly touch the other end on the tab on the transistor. The coil should fire.

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

On my game, I clip a jumper on the ground braid, and quickly touch the other end on the tab on the transistor. The coil should fire.

WOLF, I grounded a wire then touched the metal tab on Q46 and nothing happened. Was I doing this right? I read another way to test the coil is to ground a wire then touch the non-banded side of the lug on the coil and it should fire. Should I give that a try?

#27 7 years ago

Try grounding that lug. That will tell you if it's an issue between the coil and driver board or if it's the coil itself.

#28 7 years ago

Yep, just like crash said.

#29 7 years ago

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to check that out. I think I may have discovered the problem though! The solder joint on J1-1 is bad. When I check the connection between the J1-1 pin and the banded end of the D1 diode there is no connection.

#30 7 years ago

Problem solved!

#31 7 years ago

Go gettem!

#32 7 years ago

Gah! Now I'm thoroughly confused... not that it takes much.

I resoldered J1-1. Connection was good. Hook the PBB back up and same problem. So then I decided to ground out the coil and it fired. So there is some good news in that. But now I have no idea where to go from here.

#33 7 years ago

Because I'm old I can't remember, did you ever check continuity of the wires to the coil from the conectors.

#34 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

Because I'm old I can't remember, did you ever check continuity of the wires to the coil from the conectors.

WOLF, I did check the continuity from the outhole coil to J-2 on the board, then from J-2 to J-1, and then J-1 to CN-11 and everything checked out.

I did run through Diagnostics again and I can now fire the outhole coil from there! So good news on the J1-1 resolder. So at this point does it look like a bad switch even though they check out in diagnostics? I am not sure what else it could be.

#35 7 years ago

so now you know the coil is good and getting power from the driver. what tells it to fire and when?

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

so now you know the coil is good and getting power from the driver. what tells it to fire and when?

I have no idea, but it's working now! I have no idea why but when a ball drains and hits the outhole switch it fires the outhole coil. I don't know why it just started working. Everything seemed to be ok and there shouldn't have been a problem, but for some reason there was... and now there's not.

Hopefully it keeps working... time to go plays some games and find out!

Thank you WOLF, Crash, and beatmaster for all your help, not only in this thread but all the other threads too. I'll report back if I run into anything. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

#37 7 years ago
Quoted from gern:

I have no idea, but it's working now! I have no idea why

It's a f*****g miracle! lol.

6 years later
#38 7 months ago
Quoted from WOLF:

It's a miracle! lol.

Is it legal to revive a 6 year old thread?

I have left (actually center) drop targets not working at all and right drop targets working only after the machine gets well warmed up. I replaced the coils (before reading this thread) and the diode across them and they still don't work. Altho it was probably time for their replacement anyway.

I have the scheme - I believe I should look at replacing Q40 and Q41 - agreed? How to be sure?

Thank you!
JT

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