(Topic ID: 239477)

Let's Talk about Marketing for a Minute... Calm Down


By davidlldennis

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by Ricochet
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 7 months ago

Good Lord people are really kicking JJP after TPF. I think they just have one issue. Marketing.

Personally, I think the JJP teams' issue is communication and marketing. I think the business model of build a few machines, stop, then re-release with another special edition art package/colour down the road is a great idea. They need to embrace this and own it. This is their business model and how they make machines.

I mean making shorter runs manages the business risk and keeps the line going. Stern is a powerhouse and can pivot from project to project and often use similar mechs from machine to machine. JJP doesn't have that luxury.

Spooky makes 500 machines and (rightfully so) is hailed as a champion start up. JJP makes 200-500 YBRs and we all ship dog crap in boxes to New Jersey... Why?

Where JJP falls flat is on the delivery of their message and the marketing of their ideas. JJP says they are "making 200 this year and maybe more". But all the distributors know they plan on making 500 and tell everyone on the show floor their plans... That doesn't create good will. I mean just come out and say that, if there is demand we will make up to 500.

Everyone is hung up on the number of machines? JJP should just stop calling them Limited Editions if they aren't limited, call them something else. Embrace it.

JJP should just come out and say, "there isn't demand for Pirate right now, may be there will be in the future. We will make another special run then."

$11,500 USD is too much for me, hell $7,500 USD is too much. So I just move on, I don't lose sleep over it. It's OK if you wanted a cheaper WOZ so you could buy one but it didn't happen. I was hoping for a cheaper one and I'm disappointed but I haven't died inside.

Time will tell if affluent folks (who aren't on pinside) buy YBR. If I was a betting man, I'd say they sell them all and make another run next year and sell them out too. JJP isn't a pinball charity, its a business.

The yellow is hideous...

Give JJP a break, you can tell from their demeanor at TPF they knew they would be kicked in the groin all week and they have been. Hold them accountable but don't abuse they poor fellas.

#2 7 months ago
Quoted from davidlldennis:

JJP makes 200-500 YBRs and we all ship dog crap in boxes to New Jersey... Why?

$11,500. Physical mech removal. 7 year old game. Yellow that doesn't match.

#3 7 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

$11,500. Physical mech removal. 7 year old game. Yellow that doesn't match.

If it was $11,500 with the monkey would you buy one?

#4 7 months ago
Quoted from davidlldennis:

If it was $11,500 with the monkey would you buy one?

Of course not. For $11,500 it should have the monkey, a bunch of popular community mods and matching sparkle armor making it the definitive version of WOZ. At that point I could consider it being a fair value.

But frankly I don't like the way the game shoots whatsoever (code and theme integration is great) so its never been high on my personal list of wants.

#5 7 months ago

This food is terrible!!

And such tiny portions!

#6 7 months ago

I remember back in the day when the new pin reveal was Wheel of Fortune and the bewildered anger it caused. We are living in pretty good times when YBR is what causes outrage.

#7 7 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

Of course not. For $11,500 it should have the monkey.....

Out of context... this is funny. Heck... you might even be able to buy a real monkey for 11.5K!

#8 7 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

Of course not. For $11,500 it should have the monkey, a bunch of popular community mods and matching sparkle armor making it the definitive version of WOZ. At that point I could consider it being a fair value.
But frankly I don't like the way the game shoots whatsoever (code and theme integration is great) so its never been high on my personal list of wants.

You're very passionate about a game you don't care for...

#9 7 months ago
Quoted from davidlldennis:

Good Lord people are really kicking JJP after TPF. I think they just have one issue. Marketing.
Personally, I think the JJP teams' issue is communication and marketing. I think the business model of build a few machines, stop, then re-release with another special edition art package/colour down the road is a great idea. They need to embrace this and own it. This is their business model and how they make machines.
I mean making shorter runs manages the business risk and keeps the line going. Stern is a powerhouse and can pivot from project to project and often use similar mechs from machine to machine. JJP doesn't have that luxury.
Spooky makes 500 machines and (rightfully so) is hailed as a champion start up. JJP makes 200-500 YBRs and we all ship dog crap in boxes to New Jersey... Why?
Where JJP falls flat is on the delivery of their message and the marketing of their ideas. JJP says they are "making 200 this year and maybe more". But all the distributors know they plan on making 500 and tell everyone on the show floor their plans... That doesn't create good will. I mean just come out and say that, if there is demand we will make up to 500.
Everyone is hung up on the number of machines? JJP should just stop calling them Limited Editions if they aren't limited, call them something else. Embrace it.
JJP should just come out and say, "there isn't demand for Pirate right now, may be there will be in the future. We will make another special run then."
$11,500 USD is too much for me, hell $7,500 USD is too much. So I just move on, I don't lose sleep over it. It's OK if you wanted a cheaper WOZ so you could buy one but it didn't happen. I was hoping for a cheaper one and I'm disappointed but I haven't died inside.
Time will tell if affluent folks (who aren't on pinside) buy YBR. If I was a betting man, I'd say they sell them all and make another run next year and sell them out too. JJP isn't a pinball charity, its a business.
The yellow is hideous...
Give JJP a break, you can tell from their demeanor at TPF they knew they would be kicked in the groin all week and they have been. Hold them accountable but don't abuse they poor fellas.

My guess is they aren't making money on JJPOTC rather than demand issues. Stop production now and bring it back later at a higher $$ called something else. IMHO.

#10 7 months ago
Quoted from davidlldennis:

You're very passionate about a game you don't care for...

I care about the company and having them in the industry being a viable premium alternative to the norm. I enjoy their other games but have never liked how WoZ shoots from day one. Its still a fine game. Sue me. I think YBR is a bad move and the overall community reaction seems to be in agreement.

Frankly I'm able to comment on the topic despite not caring for the shots of the game. I'm not sure how that can be hard to understand but - hey - its the internet and anybody with a differing opinion gets attacked as not having the credibility or even the ability ability to to offer a contrary opinion. You offer no attempt to debate or retort and head right to the strawman attacks. Typical.

#11 7 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This food is terrible!!
And such tiny portions!

Perfect!

#12 7 months ago
Quoted from Ricochet:

Heck... you might even be able to buy a real monkey for 11.5K!

You can! A quick google search found them available starting around $4500

#13 7 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

I care about the company and having them in the industry being a viable premium alternative to the norm. I enjoy their other games but have never liked how WoZ shoots from day one. Its still a fine game. Sue me. I think YBR is a bad move and the overall community reaction seems to be in agreement.
Frankly I'm able to comment on the topic despite not caring for the shots of the game. I'm not sure how that can be hard to understand but - hey - its the internet and anybody with a differing opinion gets attacked as not having the credit-ability or even the ability ability to to offer a contrary opinion. No attempt to debate or retort and right to the strawman attacks. Typical.

Just like the Beatles, Primus, and Supreme (any other ones I missed?), the target audience may not be the Pinside crowd. Plus, at only 200 units, they'll sell. Bring on the next reveal! Hopefully at MGC in a couple weeks. Looking forward to what they put out next!

For those in the WoZ market (I am) look out for HUO ECLEs and RR75ths. Cheaper than YBR plus it has a monkey that you can play with.

#14 7 months ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Just like the Beatles, Primus, and Supreme (any other ones I missed?), the target audience may not be the Pinside crowd. Plus, at only 200 units, they'll sell. Bring on the next reveal! Hopefully at MGC in a couple weeks. Looking forward to what they put out next!
For those in the WoZ market (I am) look out for HUO ECLEs and RR75ths. Cheaper than YBR plus it has a monkey that you can play with.

Well said, its easy to tell a million dollar company what to do, when you have zero at stake...

#15 7 months ago

Here's the deal (in my opinion anyway lol).

JJP messed up at the TPF presentation as they were 1 not organized, 2 they removed features from WOZ and increased the price by $2k over Ruby Red, and 3 could not limit the game to a reasonable number.

If JJP came out at TPF with an organized presentation and announced a super loaded ultimate WOZ for say $12k (or more) and limited it to 100 games some people would have been irked but it would have been accepted.

#16 7 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

I care about the company and having them in the industry being a viable premium alternative to the norm. I enjoy their other games but have never liked how WoZ shoots from day one. Its still a fine game. Sue me. I think YBR is a bad move and the overall community reaction seems to be in agreement.
Frankly I'm able to comment on the topic despite not caring for the shots of the game. I'm not sure how that can be hard to understand but - hey - its the internet and anybody with a differing opinion gets attacked as not having the credibility or even the ability ability to to offer a contrary opinion. You offer no attempt to debate or retort and head right to the strawman attacks. Typical.

But what if they sell WOZ YBR for less, with mods and monkey and that is what actually puts the company out of business?

#17 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Here's the deal (in my opinion anyway lol).
JJP messed up at the TPF presentation as they were 1 not organized, 2 they removed features from WOZ and increased the price by $2k over Ruby Red, and 3 could not limit the game to a reasonable number.
If JJP came out at TPF with an organized presentation and announced a super loaded ultimate WOZ for say $12k (or more) and limited it to 100 games some people would have been irked but it would have been accepted.

Exactly my point, its just marketing and the finer points of their messaging. Its a simple fix in my opinion. I'm not sure how you could load up a WOZ more... but i think the lighting, board and cabinet changes aren't being promoted as added expense and features.

#18 7 months ago

They've made themselves the "high end pin" in the market place... I don't know what the total addressable market for pinball is, but as long as they are in the "high end" part of the space and the market will bear it, they won't have to change a thing. They can either go after more of the market or improve their margins... It is a math problem. To go after more of the market... they would need to change.

#19 7 months ago

Marketing is the least of JJPs problems...

Big game delays, game repair problems, underwhelming non-licensed theme content and asset-less licensed themes for the win!

#20 7 months ago
Quoted from davidlldennis:

If it was $11,500 with the monkey would you buy one?

Going to try to use this sentence at work 3 times today.

#21 7 months ago
Quoted from Gopher4653:

Going to try to use this sentence at work 3 times today.

I'll admit I'm juvenile enough to find this whole monkey thing utterly hilarious... its funny everywhere I read it.

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