(Topic ID: 262812)

Let's P-Roc this (Haunted) House. My 'Magnum Opus' has begun.

By HHaase

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 158 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by HHaase
  • Topic is favorited by 47 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

D8BCAEB5-B825-41C7-A037-78312924172A (resized).jpeg
C24F6EB1-1FA3-432A-A88D-D425F6C13212 (resized).jpeg
DF7FA9F7-3626-4F09-8CD1-7E2AF26C05DC (resized).jpeg
3CB180A3-C066-4619-8518-0EA64D1C1D34 (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpg
52F2A58E-43D6-40FB-8CCE-7EC3B01B8019 (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpg
45C461FD-0C2A-4066-9A9A-0EE2225D1C15 (resized).jpeg
B2489437-7655-4BC9-B12B-CF1FED0C936A (resized).jpeg
2251C908-A023-4736-89EF-62679E7622E0 (resized).jpeg
schematic (resized).jpg
HH0038 (resized).JPG
HH0039 (resized).JPG
HH0037 (resized).JPG
HH0036 (resized).JPG
8E641EC9-60DC-4E10-8E17-C2BC6FD5B2D7 (resized).jpeg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider zacaj.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

The more I look at it, the more I'm going to at least start with the Mission Pinball framework. From what I can tell so far it's just better documented and more user friendly. I've never worked with Python before so the higher level environment is more beneficial to me.
From what I can tell it also better supports non-LCD style displays. I'm not 100% sure what I'll be doing for displays yet, but I do know I won't be doing an LCD system. Anything I do will still need to fit inside the original plasma display openings in the backglass and playfield. I am leaning toward some kind of alphanumeric setup at the moment but that's still wide open as I haven't done any actual work in that direction yet.
-Hans

The gottlieb displays are already semi alphanumeric, they might be good enough.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

but if they use the same BCD based controller,

The gottlieb displays aren't BCD, or rather the BCD decoder is on the MPU, and the raw segment info is sent to the display. This is what allows aftermarket MPUs to display psuedo-text on them.

1 month later
#45 4 years ago

How are you going to wire them all together?

#51 4 years ago

Most flippers of any game 70s/after?

#55 4 years ago

I think Hobbit may be a contender for most coils. Two coils per drop target! HH is definitely in its own league though..

Why put all the 10 put switches separately? Gottlieb put them in parallel originally, seems like it could potentially save you a board

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

Completely mpu controlled flippers? I would be concerned about lag in that setup.

Most flippers have been MPU controlled since the 90s. WPC had about 4ms lag; apparently not noticeable.

#60 4 years ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

Up until fliptonics, all Bally/Williams flippers were controlled through a relay. Even post relay, there was very little programming overhead in the WPC system.
The reason I would be worried about controlling flippers through a Proc system is because of all the overhead involved in that system. This is what I mean:
The flipper button is pressed, the signal goes to the Proc, the signal is then passed to the computer via USB, the signal is then interpreted by the operating system and the windows controller passes it to the program running your software. Just about all the software out there is script based and acting as an interpreter, this means this there are more than likely another layer or two of code to get through before the code decides it needs to energize a coil. That request then has to go back through the program, through the windows server and back to the usb bus to get back to the Proc.
A fast computer with very little overhead could make this work, or all this could possibly add up to unacceptable lag at the flippers. If it were my project, I would build a test rig and try it out before I commit to using it on the final machine.

Meanwhile, all modern games are running a full linux system and are fine. Also every other PROC homebrew project out there also has software flippers, again with no complaints. Even with a few layers of python scripting thrown in, it's pretty hard for an if statement to take multiple milliseconds

#62 4 years ago

The PROC driver boards don't actually have inputs on them though, right? So the signal still has to go through the input board, to the PROC driver on the computer, and back out at least?

#65 4 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

The P3-ROC usually works with SW-16 boards to bring in switch inputs, and the SW-16 data is processed up to once per millisecond.

So it's actually firing the flippers directly from the SW-16 to the driver, no need to go up to the computer over usb at all?

1 week later
#76 4 years ago

Note that the 38V is actually just the 24V with a big capacitor on it. Works out well though to give the bumpers extra juice

Might want to check if both transformers are needed (iirc, there's two?). Might be able to sell one

#80 4 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Should probably start a schematic too at some point.

Do you have any idea what software is good for doing that, when you're talking a whole machine? I've got stuff for circuit boards, but haven't been able to find anything good for power/playfield wiring

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

At some point I do need to figure out how to include the AC power for the PC and monitor into the machine wiring. I don't want to just tap into the service outlet since that's always live. I want the ability to power on/off through the main switch. That's a problem for future Hans though. Right now it's time to stop working on my pinball hobby and get back to my pinball business, because I have orders to ship.

I've set mine up with a 4 outlet box, with some outlets live for service, some connected to the power switch, and also an extra switch to toggle the HV without killing the logic

#96 4 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Maybe I should ditch the whole transformer and go with a 48v power suppl

Isn't that going to cause big issues? All the coils are 24V, not 48v, I don't think you'll be able to dial it back that much in software...

Have you tried disconnecting the grond distribution board from the line in stuff (everything the transformer and before), to rule that out?

Seems like something must be wrong with your driver board if it's giving the coils a path to ground

Your schematic looks right to me, same thing I'm doing on my game (except I'm not using PROC, so..). I don't know what actually goes on inside their board since they don't provide schematics, so it's hard to say what could be happening to cause the LED to light

1 week later
#108 3 years ago

If you're going to have to redo the wiring anyway, would it be worthwhile to re-use gottlieb's per-coil fuse banks?

#122 3 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Top of the tube is just a straight cut across, acrylic all the way other than the mount brackets. Nothing broken or deformed at all. In my case the ball doesn't always clear the top of the tube, much less get enough height to bounce off the deflector. It's entering the tube cleanly on the bottom side too so it appears to be an issue with the strength of the VUK mechanism.

What rating is the coil? I've had issues where very high current coils weren't being handled well by the mosfets...
Maybe use a weaker coil at higher voltage?

#124 3 years ago

Looks like it's a 23-575 run off the 38v via a relay. I'd be real curious to see if it fires stronger via a relay, or via a tip36c driven by the mosfets, as well as whether your flippers have their full strength once you get them wired up. My homebrew is also using gottlieb flippers with the same coils, and I was unable to drive them at full strength using an irl540, which I think is what your boards are using? Not sure if there's an issue there or some issue on my end though... At this point it's beyond my electronics knowledge

#130 3 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

If I were to do this again, knowing what I've learned, I probably would have used the Multimorphic power distribution board, run all the coils on the 38v circuit, and used software to dial back all of the 25v mechanisms.

That's what I tried to do on my build, but I ran into issues with continuous coils. I think some of the mechs on HH like the trap door use a double wound coil w/ EOS, on the 24V line. The extra voltage from the 38v overheated the coil. Another coil I tried to dial back as much as possible, but couldn't find a good sweet spot with the 38v and adjusted timings. Had no issues with the 24v. Better to run the mechs on the voltage they were designed for, imo.

#132 3 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Did you also use MPF/P3-Roc?

I'm using custom boards, but as far as I know they'd be equivalent here. IRL540Ns, and I copied my PWM timings from the MPF PROC code. Using an original Gottlieb transformer like you. Originally I ran everything on the 38V, and I ended up having to redo most of my coil wiring to move them to the 24V. In the end only my pop bumper, main flippers, and a few other misc things use the 38V. Even my flippers will get concerningly hot if held up for a few minutes on the 38V. Unlikely to happen during play since they'll have a lot of literal 'down time' to cool off, but. My most recent post (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-poker-poker-time-undecided-poker-themed-homebrew/page/2#post-5644941) discusses this, and some other PWM issues I had that were resolved by moving my up posts/etc off the 38V.

#135 3 years ago

Did you wire the uppers and lowers to 24 or 38?

#137 3 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

38 for all the flippers plus that vuk. Vuk working great now btw.

I think the flippers on the non-main playfields were 24 originally

#140 3 years ago

What was the reasoning for using the mini fit Jr?

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 10.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Toast-Mach1 Mods Shop
 
2,950 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Shakopee, MN
From: $ 2.99
$ 1,159.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 1.49
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
 
3,950 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Centerport, NY
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 83.00
Electronics
PinballReplacementParts
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider zacaj.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/let-s-p-roc-this-haunted-house-my-magnum-opus-has-begun?tu=zacaj and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.