(Topic ID: 228025)

Let's design a new Bally/Stern Classic game > Time to talk design...

By Whysnow

5 years ago


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  • 163 posts
  • 56 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by wugly
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “What theme do you like best?”

    • mythical beasts 31 votes
      11%
    • alien creatures 24 votes
      9%
    • underwater 44 votes
      16%
    • space/time travel 54 votes
      19%
    • outerspace 46 votes
      16%
    • wizards 24 votes
      9%
    • boardsports 4 votes
      1%
    • greek 7 votes
      2%
    • hot chicks 47 votes
      17%

    (Multiple choice - 281 votes by 162 Pinsiders)

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    #1 5 years ago

    edit:poll added for general themes > can vote for multiple

    With Stern revamping Seawitch into Beatles, the current demand for classic Bally and Stern titles, and the fact that they are just in general my favorite era of game to play...

    I was curious what people really would want to see in a new 'classic'?

    Lets start with the most obvious thing > Theme

    To be a god theme it needs to be recognizable to the majority, desirable/ not off putting, and capable of bringing in some great art.
    Looking at the recognized classics they tend to all fit this bill.

    The Bally Classics of 80-81 that fit this:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/centaur mythical beast dude with hot chick
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/medusa greek mythical hot chick
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/fathom underwater hot chicks with mermaids
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/embryon weird alien stuff/ futuristic
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/eight-ball-deluxe pool theme with of course some chicks
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/frontier rough outdoorsmen theme
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/skateball whom does not like skating (and of course a few hot chicks)

    The Stern Electronics classics from similar era:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/nine-ball pool theme but with wizards
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/star-gazer hot chick star/space/cosmos stuff
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/quicksilver alien hot chick thing
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/seawitch underwater sea chicks
    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/meteor space meteor stuff

    Pool, manly outdoors stuff, wizards, space, underwater, alien, boardsports

    What are we missing here?

    What theme works best for a 2018 design on a classic theme with great art?

    (we will get into game play and features later)

    #2 5 years ago

    I feel like the best theme would not just sarcastically combine a bunch of these.

    Something like >>

    Hot alien wizard-type chicks that are taking control of mythical lizard/beast man (on another planet of course)

    #3 5 years ago

    Central themes to pinball always seem to include atleast:
    aliens
    medieval stuff
    mythos stuff
    underwater creatures
    pool (pretty dated now so i think we toss this out)
    sports (surfer, skating, fishing, rafting, etc... but these are largely more modern era)

    #4 5 years ago

    the right theme will need to appeal to the majority male pinball culture but also definitely must be female positive and promoting of women.

    both depicted sexes should be hot (sex sells) but should also be classy (2018 is not 1981 afterall)

    #6 5 years ago

    should also be something that appeals to 25-35, 35-45, and 45-55 yo population as those 30 years are the main buying demo of pinball machines.

    To put this in perspective, people born between 1993 and 1963, with focus on form when those people were teenagers and onward, so cultural appeal from 1978-2008 is really the span of the hot spot right now in my opinion.

    Quoted from mbaumle:

    As long as we're talking about an unlicensed game, it'd be neat to see something space oriented again. Not necessarily with Aliens being the central theme, but just something with cool galactic art, black holes, rockets, stars, mysterious planets, exploration, slip in a little mystery of time and space, some alien cameos, and I think you'd have a pretty slick game.

    I agree and think that space is really a good one right now. Space was hot in the 80s ans space is hot again now. Seems like any theme needs to look to space theme in some way.

    #8 5 years ago
    Quoted from chubtoad13:

    Time travel and space stuff are my favorites

    time travel is great also!!!

    nice idea!!!

    also could play into the idea of hot space alein-type chicks that travel through space and time to battle all sorts of mythical creatures/ man beasts

    love that!

    #9 5 years ago

    Working theme: Time/Space Traveling Wizard/Alien Chicks (hot of course) that conquer mythical man beasts (also hot of course)

    What do we call this game?

    The title should connote the theme well but honestly should be a single word (like all the classics are/were).

    #12 5 years ago

    what is RHPS?

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from MarkInc:

    Rocky Horror Picture Show

    I can see that, but I dont think a parody is the way to go. non-sarcastic and genuine mythical world idea based on the themes is the way with pinball.

    Pinheads love fantasy and getting away from the real world with the "world under glass"
    I do agree that the very best non-licensed themes shoudl feel familiar and recognizable/ identifiable to the general populus.
    i.e. the reason Medieval Madnes is such a good theme is that it is Monty Python without being Monty Python.

    #16 5 years ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-ideas-for-retheme#post-3953959
    from the list in this link, keeping with what Stern seems to like:
    Pink Floyd or Depeche Mode.

    no licenses for this topic

    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Working theme: Time/Space Traveling Wizard/Alien Chicks (hot of course) that conquer mythical man beasts (also hot of course)
    What do we call this game?
    The title should connote the theme well but honestly should be a single word (like all the classics are/were).

    Anyone have title ideas for this type of theme?

    #20 5 years ago
    Quoted from Grizlyrig:

    Re-theme Fathom to something spacey.
    -Mike

    design will come later

    Fathom is a good design but has a few flaws IMHO also. Will save that for a later topic. Also not talking about a reskin. Talking about a new design (when the time comes)

    What classic theme do you like?

    #21 5 years ago

    poll added for general themes > can vote for multiple

    #22 5 years ago

    bump for poll

    everyone loves polls

    #29 5 years ago
    Quoted from bonzo442:

    Underwater theme. I always thought like a Fathom ll would be a great follow up to original but of course changes to original layout. Call it Deep Diver or Diver Down with a giant squid or octopus creature or maybe like the movie Abyss with the aliens at the bottom.

    very cool idea!

    #36 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    How about a western?

    personally really like it, but it has never seemed to be a good one for pinball.

    #78 5 years ago

    Based on the poll Space/time travel, Mythical Beasts, and Underwater all seem to be the clear winners.

    I think we go with some type of half woman/ half lizard type central character (female and attractive). This hints at being underwater/evolved from underwater and also has human characteristics (we need our central characters to be identifiable and good looking after all; scale type armour for part of her body but obvious female features). Let's also be equal opportunity and while the central character is the hot lizard woman, her main buddy will be the mythical man beast (thinking large, hairy and cute in that ugly self deprecating sort of way). They are working together to defeat an evil overlord of a planet they have time (or space)-traveled to.

    Working title>> TBD at a later date.

    Sounds like a fun theme to me Art will be key! Wondering if Paul Ferris is available for hire?

    #79 5 years ago

    So let's get into design. Only so much room on the pf but lot's of great features to borrow from (and modify) on the classics many of us love.

    What features do you see on your perfect retro classic game made for 2018?

    Let's look at some pics of the aforementioned classics to start talking it out.

    9 ball (resized).jpg9 ball (resized).jpgCentaur (resized).jpgCentaur (resized).jpgEBD (resized).jpgEBD (resized).jpgEmbryon (resized).jpgEmbryon (resized).jpgFathom (resized).jpegFathom (resized).jpegFrontier (resized).jpgFrontier (resized).jpgMedusa (resized).jpgMedusa (resized).jpgMeteor (resized).jpgMeteor (resized).jpgQS (resized).jpgQS (resized).jpgSG (resized).jpgSG (resized).jpgSeaW (resized).JPGSeaW (resized).JPGSkate (resized).jpgSkate (resized).jpg
    #81 5 years ago

    I think there are a few clear must haves:
    Must have inline drops (really needs to be the Danessi Lock system as this uses the drops super efficiently and allows you to have real active locks and also the satisfaction of inline drops) With coding you could even utilize these in a unique way to give them a different feel (thinking in an orbit and since controlled you could do lots with them).
    Must have at least 1 spinner, but 2 is preferred.
    Must have at least 1 3-bank of drops
    Must have at least 1 exposed pop

    I think the first question in my mind is what kind of bottom do we like best?

    Traditional (i.e. 9-ball, EBD, Frontier, Metero, QS, SeaW)
    Or non-traditional (i.e. Centaur, Embryon, Fathom, Medusa, SG, Skateball)

    I see big things I like about both and personally would like to see something that is a mix with one more traditional side lane and the other requires a nudge back. The traditional provides more flow and allows for interesting flipper play. The non-traditional with a nudge back keep you on your toes and provides some flavor.

    #90 5 years ago

    not interested in BOM. Interested in the fun of building an imaginary game on a forum.

    Please dont take the fun out of this

    Back to design.
    What do people like on the bottom and why?

    For me a nudgeback is just so sweet! I think Centaur probably is the best nudge back but I dont like how a ball coming through the inlane can bounce a bit as it rattles off the 1 way gate. I wonder if there could be a better way to design that in a more modern feel where it could be the best of both worlds?

    #94 5 years ago
    Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

    Well this topic died on its arse all of a sudden. Going to try and breathe some life back into it by dusting off one of my old designs from the Heighway days, squeezing it into the classic single-level Bally size and tinkering with it to tick all the design boxes brought up in the thread.

    awesome!

    Would love to see it!

    #103 5 years ago
    Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

    Debating at the moment whether to opt for three trip-coil memory in-lines in one place, or a single drop at two different places that each guard a lock point. Bit reluctant to place a lock behind an in-line bank as the shot is also an upper flipper feed and will make the area look like a Fathom knock-off. Either way, multiball would be started by a magnet catch at the top; Beatles probably does this as well but the magnet's been in this core design for years and is part of the geometry and flow.

    can you share a sketch for those of us that are more visual?

    #115 5 years ago

    Looking very cool! Excited to see it progress!

    Wish I had the talent to even know what software to use to to drawn stuff like this!

    1 week later
    #132 5 years ago

    looking good.

    are you open to feedback/thoughts?

    #134 5 years ago

    First, the whole right side of the playfield is really good! Lots of great feel, geometry, and depth of shot placement for variety. The shots of the main left flipper all seem really good and will feel satisfying to hit.

    I think mainly the left side of the pf needs some work (esp since most people are dominant right handed and this is a 2 flipper on the right design). The pops area is too congested and this side of the pf needs one very satisfying shot IMHO.

    A few thoughts in order of what I perceive as needing to be tweaked.

    1. Left outlane/nudge back is reminiscent of Alien. This did not work very well on alien. It felt more like pliko than a real nudge back. Good nudgebacks include Viking, Centaur, and fathom IMHO. Best to borrow from those. The left outlane area also seems too constricted and I dont think the ball will go out there much.

    2. Passive bumpers are not satisfying to hit. How about a stand up kicker in this position instead (like on Stargate). With the right angle it could give some good action.

    3. Need a shorter depth of field shot from left flipper (diagram coming for a suggestion)

    #135 5 years ago

    strong left flipper designed shots primaries in red, secondaries in green.
    nice layout and depth of playfield.

    Left main shots (resized).jpgLeft main shots (resized).jpg

    #136 5 years ago

    I would like to see 1 more left flipper main shot that is a shorter depth of field, creates outlane risk, and can be used sparingly (think EB on Whitewater; death but worth the risk sometimes)

    needs geometry tweaks but this gives you an idea.

    1 more left flipper shot (resized).jpg1 more left flipper shot (resized).jpg
    #137 5 years ago

    now the right flipper shots.

    Here is where I see the upper left of pf being under used, lacking a main satisfying shot, and why I conclude it needs adjustment/ a change from current.

    Still brainstorming possible solutions and will draw something later when I get a chance to provide some of my ideas.

    Again, really LIKE what I am seeing here and the whole right side of pf is VERY strong!

    Right main shots (resized).jpgRight main shots (resized).jpg
    #139 5 years ago
    Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

    In fact, rebound angles and ball direction into the pops has been given the highest design priority here. Plus, it isn't often that pops are used as potential flow devices (if ever).

    can you draw up some ball path entrance/exit from pop bumpers so I can better understand?

    My thought is that the congestion of the pops make them very predicable in path. I personally am not a fan of the Stern cluster and much prefer the chaos of old Bally or TNA type pop. I like when you have to deal with the ramifications of a poorly places pop shot (or forced to hit a pop and have to be ready with a random and exposed exit).

    Right now I see the black paths as predictable and the red as the only random (and top bumper provides a "safe" random since high up on pf). To me, that is a bunch of coils and space being used for something that kind of cuts out the whol left 1/3 of the pf area.

    pop flow (resized).jpgpop flow (resized).jpg
    #144 5 years ago

    nice adjustments!

    1 week later
    #156 5 years ago
    Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

    Thread bump, since folks have been asking about design programs and this may be a useful example.

    which program/ version is this?

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