(Topic ID: 293709)

Legit or not?

By Bigghauss

2 years ago


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    #1 2 years ago

    Hey all, new Pinside member here. i've been an owner of a Gottlieb Rack-A-Ball for a few years, and an F-14 Tomcat for a few months and have been following this community closely. Great information to be had for sure! Anyways, I was hoping to get some feedback on a recent experience with a pinball company. A few weeks back I started to go down the road with a seller, (pinballshore.com) which ultimately I found out was a scam (thank you Pinside) so my radar has been up on this sort of thing and worried about who is for real.

    My story: A few days ago, I found a T2 that I was really interested in via ebay. Priced seemed a little too sweet but I looked into it it was being sold by www.fulltiltpinballleds.com. I saw he was a seller here on Pinside and he had good feedback. I went to his website, called the main number, and left a message. A few minutes later Kevin called me back from a different number and we talked about the T2. It all seemed great! He was super nice. I asked about the difference in price from ebay versus his website and he said he does less because its not on ebay, and so it seemed to make sense. Then he asked if I could do a Zelle since it was from his personal collection versus a Paypal which would go to his business. He gave me his address and background to look him up to verify. He also offered a video call, which I accepted. He showed me the pinball along with his other collections, talked about the deal and he seemed like a genuine guy (which I truly hope he is)! So I agreed to the deal, arranged shipping and the plan was to have me send two Zelle payments to get to the total over the course of two days. It was late in the day and I sent the first batch of funds. He didn't get it, so I waited a bit and he still didn't get it. So I called my bank, and they said because I put it on so late in the day that it would get approved in the morning. I shared that with Kevin and I assumed it as all ok.

    That evening I was reading up about recent scams, and I really started to freak out about what I just did. What stuck out was really the small things that made me worry. The changing of the items included, the insistence on Zelle, the different return cell #. But, the fact he had a house full of pins, and his registration came up via the Florida business website, it all seemed cool. The following morning I called my bank and they informed me that they cancelled the Zelle the previous day when I called (probably because I was upset with them) and so I let Kevin know. But I also asked if we could find a different way to do the deal. Such as Paypal, or using escrow.com, but something that gave me a hint of protection.

    Since then...radio silence. I left a VM, multiple texts. I'm assuming he's busy, so I've been patient and continued to convey my interest in the pin, but not a single response. All of this makes me wonder, is this a legit business or not? Did I dodge a bullet, or miss an opportunity? Again, I'm really hoping he is for real and if he is, wish him only the very best! I enjoyed talking with Kevin via the phone. He was very personable, friendly, motivated to sell, had a huge collection of games. All things that 'felt' good. But the ghosting really has me worried and thus thought I might reach out to this group to get your feedback.

    Should I persist or walk? Thoughts?
    -BH

    #2 2 years ago

    I don't think I've heard of them before, but I don't pay much attention to the Florida scene since I'm nowhere near that area.

    The domain was created in 2016, so it's an established website. Most scam websites are usually very recent.

    One red flag for me is the junk ad copy down at the bottom of the page:

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    Although, that could mean their website was compromised. I can see they're running wordpress, so it's easy for that to happen if you don't stay on top of security issues.

    It looks like they have a profile on Pinside with one member in it: https://pinside.com/pinball/biz/directory/1079-full-tilt-pinball-leds

    KevyMetal

    Quoted from Bigghauss:

    Since then...radio silence. I left a VM, multiple texts. I'm assuming he's busy, so I've been patient and continued to convey my interest in the pin, but not a single response.

    If it was legit, it's possible that the thought you might have been a scammer or tire kicker. I noticed there wasn't a T2 listed on the website, so maybe he found another buyer that worked out an easier transaction.

    #3 2 years ago

    That's a totally fair and salient point. Perhaps my behavior cause him to be fearful, which I can totally understand. I thought I was avoiding sending that message by asking for different ways to conduct the transaction that protected us both.

    Lesson learned I guess. Thanks for the info. I guess it wasn't meant to be.

    #4 2 years ago

    What do you gain by risking a few thousand by buying a game you can’t touch from someone you don’t know?

    The AZ scene is fairly well established. Get to know people in it and buy a game you know exists and is owned by the person standing in front of you.

    #5 2 years ago

    I can't vouch for the seller, but he seems pretty active on these forums. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-terminator-2-judgment-day-129

    #6 2 years ago

    What makes this a bit comical is that when I bought my F-14 about 2 months ago, I did it from somebody in Florida. I DIDN'T EVEN THINK that people were running pinball scams at the time! The thought of setting up a sham site to sell pins that didn't exist wasn't even a possibility in my mind. I was totally oblivious when I did that purchase.

    I wonder, had I knew what I know now, would I have proceeded with the Tomcat buy?

    #7 2 years ago

    who knows just move on

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    who knows just move on

    Agree. Sounds like a scam and a half to me, but even if it's legit, if T2 is the game you gotta have, there has to be one closer you can go check out.

    If you bought the game from the eBay listing, you would pay via PayPal, right? So why the switch to Zelle? Too many red flags for me.

    #9 2 years ago

    If you're not out money (from what I gather your bank refunded you so you're good), I would walk. How I look at it, if it sounds like a scam, it probably is.

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bigghauss:

    insistence on Zelle

    https://www.zellepay.com/pay-it-safe
    "it shouldn’t be used to pay strangers."
    "Zelle doesn’t offer a protection program for authorized payments, so only use Zelle to pay people you know and trust."
    "Treat Zelle Like Cash"

    What reward are you getting for assuming the risk?

    Deals go wrong all the time for many different reasons. Seller has already shown that you're not a priority when they ghosted you.

    #11 2 years ago

    I'm pretty sure hes legit, hes been around for a while although I've never personally dealt with him. It makes sense he'd give you a much better deal vs on ebay and zelle would be a common way to pay for something like that. Like how else would you pay him? Hes obviously trying to cut out as many fees and taxes as possible. Still your concern is not unfounded and tbh I have never seen him have a good deal on anything lol

    #12 2 years ago

    Nobody wants to take Paypal on a game buy any more. Don't see why that's a red flag.

    #13 2 years ago

    Yeah it sounds like he didn’t want to sell with fees.
    I usually just buy from known pinsiders. It’s a pretty solid community so I don’t mind paying by PayPal through family and friends so there are no fees to the seller.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from kklank:

    Yeah it sounds like he didn’t want to sell with fees.
    I usually just buy from known pinsiders. It’s a pretty solid community so I don’t mind paying by PayPal through family and friends so there are no fees to the seller.

    It's not just the fees. THe many ways you can get screwed selling a pinball machine via paypal are well documented.

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from kklank:

    Yeah it sounds like he didn’t want to sell with fees.
    I usually just buy from known pinsiders. It’s a pretty solid community so I don’t mind paying by PayPal through family and friends so there are no fees to the seller.

    I have no skin in the game, but why not just say that instead of "Then he asked if I could do a Zelle since it was from his personal collection versus a Paypal which would go to his business.". Why would it matter what "collection" the game was from?

    Sounds like the game was listed on ebay anyway so the seller was prepared to take PayPal. I don't buy games I can't see and take home right away anyway, so maybe I'm less trusting than most people, but this answer seems pretty sketchy as opposed to just saying "I don't want to pay the fees" or asking the buyer to cover the fees.

    And I agree PayPal sucks ass I'm not debating that at all ha.

    #16 2 years ago

    I don't know the party involved, but it sounds like he gave up on you. A scammer would keep pushing for that payment, not ghost someone (not saying you were) that is annoying to deal with to them. I've been following all of these scam threads and they have everyone on alert, buyer and seller.

    Like others have said, find a game you can drive to, even if a fun road trip. Give cash after you have inspected.

    #17 2 years ago

    i can't speak to this particular deal, but a good rule of thumb is that if you even have to ask yourself if it's legit, run away immediately. worst that happens is you miss out on a deal. which is far better than the feeling of getting robbed, and not having acted on your gut.

    #18 2 years ago

    He has a T2 for sale for the low low price of $7500 now in the marketplace

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    He has a T2 for sale for the low low price of $7500 now in the marketplace

    lol all his games are huge rip offs even for a retail place

    #20 2 years ago

    BIGHAUSS, would it be OK if I Pm you?

    #21 2 years ago

    Sure.

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    He has a T2 for sale for the low low price of $7500 now in the marketplace

    Well, then I guess that's why he wouldnt move ahead at the original price. Good luck to him.

    #23 2 years ago

    Here's some bad but true advice: If you haven't had any or many fraud cases opened, your bank very likely would bail you out if your Zelle payment turned out to be a scam. The bank I work for bleeeeeeds money on Zelle fraud. 9 times out of 10 we back scammed customers.

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from heyitsjoebob:

    The bank I work for bleeeeeeds money on Zelle fraud. 9 times out of 10 we back scammed customers.

    How does that work? Zelle points to their ToS and the bank says, “Sorry, you should police your scammers better. We’re taking the money back and gfy?”

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    How does that work? Zelle points to their ToS and the bank says, “Sorry, you should police your scammers better. We’re taking the money back and gfy?”

    Nah, the bank would just give you the money back. Not over and over, and probably under some limits. But sure - customers aren't really given any protection from Zelle, but Zelle is baked into the mobile apps of the banks in the network. So if I get scammed and use my bank's app to Zelle away $1000, I'm mad at my bank for allowing it to happen. The bank will open a case with Zelle, attempt to recoup the funds, likely fail, and then give me the money back and warn me not to fall for scams. I don't recommend trying it out.

    In this particular case, however, they might not support the OP if he was forthcoming about the fact that it was cash for goods, which I believe violates the TOS. It'd be a toss up. But let's say you get a call and your brother is in jail and he needs you to Zelle $2k to get him out? That happens all the time and your bank probably has your back the first time it happens to you.

    #26 2 years ago

    Everyone should be aware that your bank may NOT (and likely will not) reimburse you for any fraud like this. They are under no obligation to do so like a credit card company would. You are 100% covered for any fraud when using a credit card but 0% covered when using a bank account, unless your bank just wants to be nice or has a policy to do so. Don't assume they will.

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    Everyone should be aware that your bank may NOT (and likely will not) reimburse you for any fraud like this. They are under no obligation to do so like a credit card company would. You are 100% covered for any fraud when using a credit card but 0% covered when using a bank account, unless your bank just wants to be nice or has a policy to do so. Don't assume they will.

    100% agree. I said it was bad advice right off the bat.

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