Amazing support from AP and an amazing game, no regrets at all here

If you like the game, I wouldn't have any concerns. AP has a reputation for solid machines and excellent support. I'm interested in LoV too, just haven't been able to find one to play yet. Plus, it's significantly less expensive than the other titles you mentioned.

I have a Wonka and a LOV and like both. I'd say it depends on what you're looking for. Wonka has a much deeper code, and is more flowy and whimsical and fun. LOV is simpler, and more "I'm doing this thing now". Both capture the theme very well. The more I play my LOV the more I realize it has some flow issues - hitting the ship ramp and left orbit are unnecessarily difficult. I'd guess 80% of the time I hit the ball up that ship ramp it comes back down. And a lot of shots feel "clangy" where the ball rattle around.

I assume you've played both. They're very different. But I agree with the above, if you can pick up a Deluxe for around $7k you wont' lose much with resale. But if you could pick up a standard Wonka for $8k that would likely be my personal choice. And the good news? Your choice isn't permanent. Buy one, and switch it out when you get bored in six months or six years.

That’s my other thought process on Wonka, I think I just want to get a standard. If I would do the LE, I might as well do the CE. Im definitely particular with my pins and everything I own, but I’d be worried I would be scared to play it as much the more expensive it is. And also harder to trade or swap out if I ever want to.

Instead of a Wonka CE, I could get a LOV and Wonka Standard.

You’re right about no one being able to make the decision for you, but it sounds to me like you’ve pretty much made your decision. And it’s the right one IMO. LOV is awesome. I’ve had it for about 5 months now. It gets a lot of play compared to my other games and I’ve had ZERO problems with it. I have some top tier games and LOV is as good as any of them, and more fun than some of them. If you can get it for a good price, DO IT. You won’t regret it.

Music is amazing on LOV. Super solid build, and lots of battles and challenges for a variety of skill levels. Code is very solid and comments here have been taken into consideration for future updates. If you feel good about the price you are getting, I believe you will get some good play time out of the table.

I noticed a new unboxing video of a LoV classic sent to the company in the fall doing promo videos for AP. This gives you an idea of what the LoV classic looks like that will be coming as soon as the deluxe are finished. You can see some of the changes.

So I had a WOZ ECLE and sold it because I was tired of working on it ALL THE TIME. Support was good just always something breaking. Have had one issue on the LOV and we had it resolved in no time.

I'd say game pay on LOV is more complex than WOZ and the shots are most certainly more difficult. Don't worry about resale value these things tend to take care of themselves.

Sort of. If you're like me and tend to change pins every 6-12 months, buying a NIB for $8700 and selling it for $7200 in six months is...unpleasant. And there are "a few pins" out there that fit this category. Not many. But a few.

I get it. I tend to hold for a couple of years then move along a bit. Have had good luck with my resale so far but never thought about it when buying a pin. In your case getting a gently used one where you swap every year or so - makes sense.

Full agreement on everything you're saying there. So many posts about how this is a flow game, but I've never played a game where so many shots just unsatisfyingly rattle around (other than the one I played at a show, which was super smooth and caused me to order one). I tried different angles, tried removing the left lane post rubber, and nothing helps.

Its weird to me to hear that people struggle with the ramp shot. I can hit it fairly easily so makes me wonder why. It is a shot that has to be timed and almost off the tip but should go in strongly and easily.
Maybe the pitch needs to be checked again?
Maybe it's a flipper switch issue? It's a double switch and you can trigger the lower and not the upper if the gap is large enough. Could play with the gap to make sure it triggers as expected and not with a little delay.
I had a linkage fall out of that one but then it wouldn't work at all so it's not that I guess

The left orbit is a tough shot no question. I usually try work arounds on that one. Like using Valk, multiballs etc. It's a risky shot as well if you miss. And sometimes you have to make it i.e. Valhalla.

I agree @glpinball. Left orbit or the shoot lane return are my struggles. But the ship I feel really dialed in on and it is a smooth shot on my table.

Well you two are making me jealous. I would love that shot if it went in smoothly with a direct hit, but no joke: The ball goes up the ramp HARD, rattles about 2/3rds of the way up, and rolls back down. Strong flipper, weak flipper, doesn't matter. The only thing that seemed to help: If I lower the flipper band almost all the way to the bottom of the bat (but then it just wiggles its way back up) and hitting only slow rolling balls. Perhaps tonight I'll lower the pitch to 6.5 (I'm at 7 now), but I'm closing in on "time to sell" if I can't get it dialed in better.

The game works best at pitch = 7. You have it right. I'm running the game at pitch = 7 and have no issue hitting the right ramp. Can I do it everytime? Nope, but it wasn't designed to be an easy shot. There are 3 tough shots in the game - right ramp, left loop and right shooter lane. Its a challenging game and makes me want to keep hitting start (even after 4 years

Look at your flipper and see whats the issue. You don't want to hammer the ramp, it can take it, but it will just rattle. You want the ball to slide up the ramp. Try turning down the pulse to 27 or 25 even and take a shot. Also, I'm using the stock AP flipper bands.

I almost always get it in the right ramp by doing a combo - spinner to mid left flipper to right ramp. This is satisfying and works great.

Yeah that doesn't make sense. It sounds like it's hitting something to cause that. If you have time, pull the glass and run some slow motion video to see what's happening. Might need some tweaks to the ramp itself. I'm sure folks here would be able to make suggestions based on the video.

Also may be good to post a quick cell video of you taking the shot. See if anything stands out to luvthatapex2 and others. Just a thought. Happy to take some vids and post as well for you. Let me know.

LOV is more fun than all of them. I’ve owned them all in the past. LOV shoots better than all of them.

Wonka is awesome. Get the LE or CE if you get one. I had the standard, and wish I had the wonkavator in it

Why does the manual say 6.5 then?

Put the game to 6.5, and have it level back to front. You won’t have problems with that right ramp

The other AP games are recommended 6.5. Standard AP manual template was used for the LOV setup pages and we didn't catch it in October.
I recommended 7.0 day 1 as it adds pitch to the balls in the ship and speed to the game. If you like 6.5 keep it there. My game was always set at 7.0

The ramp that feeds the boat has a steep, curving bend in a complicated metal part. I remember on some pre-production games the bend was too steep which resulted in the ball tending to fly straight up into the plastic that prevents air balls instead of going more smoothly up into the boat. I could see some variation in those production parts (especially as they lay stacked in a box waiting for assembly) as well as the skill level of the technician in assembly resulting in some ramps not playing as smoothly as others.

That sounds completely plausible but then what should someone do in this case, open a ticket with AP? Doesn't sound user fixable.

Mine has a small sweet spot. It either shoots up buttery smooth or clanky and comes back down. More often clanky unless you hit it just right.

Hey everyone, I can definitely understand how one build can shoot differently than another; in fact, I've only had my game for about week now and have been working to get it dialed in. I have around 2-dozen games or more on my LOV and overall believe that this is going to be a really fun game. I say going to be, because there are several items that I need to get working better. But first, I need to say that I love the artwork and the music and call outs. I also love the layout concept and the rules. I also am very happy that user feedback is appreciated, acknowledged, and sometimes incorporated in the code. There are, however, some things that need adjustment...

1. Ship lock - sometimes balls get lost in the ship. I will need to tear it down and make sure the return spring on the coil is not choked up on the e-clip, also that the post is not binding on the playfield hole.

2. The ramp flexible flaps that bridge the ramp to the playfield are lifted by about 1 mm or so off the playfield. Never seen this before on any game. Also those flaps seem to be slightly bent at the edges, sort-of like they were cut with a scissors and not die cut. Also very strange. For now, I've placed some Mylar spanning the ramp flap -to- playfield.

3. Trapping up with the lower flippers is nearly impossible. I've tried various playfield angles from 6.4 -to 7.0+ and it just seems like the flipper travel is shallow. I've watched some of the game play that has been posted here in the thread and Steve and the gang have no problem trapping up.

4. Ball hop on the right inlane to to right flipper. I've tried to loosen and realign the inlane ball guide but there is really no play. It seems pretty clear that the inlane ball guide is misaligned with the flipper, not sure if the inlane ball guide is malformed or the playfield holes are misaligned (unlikely).

5. Lock-down bar is warped. Upon arrival, the lockdown bar was loose, easily tightened by adjusting the brass screws. Now, it is secured with no play, but it is lifted away from the right rail by a significant margin, so much so that that is uncomfortable to play. I have since been using my lock down bar from my Hot Wheels game and it is much better, but still not as flush as I would prefer.

6. Some of the ball guides have kinks in the radius that bay be contributing to 'clunky' shots. Had this happen on Hot Wheels and had to tear down the game are re-bend the ball guides to have it play smoother. Looks like I will have to do the same with LOV.

7. Combos - my game must play a bit too slow, for example the left ramp -to- center ramp combo expires before the ball crosses the center ramp opto. Super frustrating (yes, I'm making the combo on the fly clean). Maybe the a feature could be added to the options menu to specify a combo timer extension of say 100-400 ms for games that don't play as fast as the development game.

Still, with the above issues, I still think this game is great; it needs a little TLC and perhaps some help from AP, but so far I have been enjoying it and can't wait to get it to its full potential.

I do have a code suggestion (if I may be so bold). There has been some talk of the top roll over lanes and their main purpose. I totally get the hands-free skill shot or super skill shot to qualify 'god of thunder', but once you do so, the top roll over lanes serve no purpose. I suggest, since they are so difficult to complete and if 'god of thunder' is already lit, to award something really good, like advance Thor's hammer.

Thanks all and happy pinballing.

Here are some videos. Perhaps someone will spot something that I'm not.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B5RdHcDUmUolOCpYPMTxfhvQ-pk1HsCy/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BAFhkn0mFuVXWPxZc3aFyPzg15qkZeDd/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BDqPkMm55Nt6uR8wURFHyWmJRlR4cUyY/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BGCehWEkojq8qH3U9P0yPSNXv8jEeUo5/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BGcutU5SCR10ILWKYIzNVAMveoni4_zs/view?usp=sharing

I figure if the ball can get 70-80% up the ramp, it should make it all the way. I botch it plenty, but the missed shots I'm referring to I think -should- make it in. Don't start me on that right shooter lane I'll also check the pulse. I'm using stock flipper bands. I agree the slower the ball is moving, the better chance I have, so the spinner combo is my best chance.

Alright, where's that setting? I'm not seeing "pulse" anywhere.

PXL_20230106_002512293 (resized).jpg

most if not all of those values equate to pulse,
mid flipper, currently set to a pulse of 22.
When Green that is the default/factory setting. Looks like it has been previously adjusted down. If you did not do that, you might want to reset to factory (increase it until green) and see how it plays, then adjust from there.

I figured that was the case...except my green Mid Flipper number is 20. But I'm color blind so feel free to correct me.

PXL_20230106_004750407 (resized).jpg

The left ramp to center ramp combo can't have any other switch hit except the left inlane. (Left ramp>left inlane>center ramp). If you nip the leftramp standup or center ramp standup it immediately cancels the combo. Try it with the glass off and if its still an issue, check the switch test to ensure both switches are working properly.

Skill shot (moving the shot with flippers before plunging) awards points.
Hands free skill shot (plunge to lit top rollover) awards points and a Weapon.
Super Skill shot (plunge to the ship) awards points and God of Thunder.

Top rollovers are bonus multipliers. Anytime you make all 3 rollovers you increase your bonus multiplier X. (2x, 3x, 4x, etc) This is always active during the whole game.

Oh incidentally, if you get the Super Skill Shot during the game, try to start the THOR battle and you'll hear a different callout

Oh one more thing about the combos. There are if I recall 20 or more different combos but there is a limit on doing the same combo in sequence to prevent spamming. You can do the same combo I think 5 times then you have to do something else . Of course you can go back to spam it again another 5 times ….,

Was hard for me to tell but looks like you might be just a bit early on the flip and are clipping the left post on the ramp entry. Also here are a couple pics of my ramp. May see a difference in the rails when you compare.

Little video as well https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G8NqMfvwIpxQrbgBS9HhLVphdDzOfayj/view?usp=drivesdk

571665BF-4054-4B33-BE55-0729212982E7 (resized).jpeg664A47F2-0E84-4D50-8E11-3DA0CB649624 (resized).jpeg

Don't have the game, just assumed it was higher based on the other flippers values. I'd start at the default, and adjust from there. Take the glass off and keep feeding from the spinner/loop until you find what works best.

When in coil settings, as long a you have higher power engaged (switched pulled out), you can flip the game to see if the power is right. So change the value, hit enter, then test shoot the ramp, adjust power, hit enter, shoot it some more. I don't recall on LOV if when in coil settings if balls hit into the ship will kick out or not. I would always set that up on AP games, but don't recall if I did that for LOV when I moved the AP service menu into it.

Hmm not in slow mo but could be jumping the ramp and banging the plastic ceiling. Couple of these you looks like you hit low on the ramp and killed the speed into the side. Take the glass off and try a bunch and see if there is something happening like I described. If it hits cleanly but hops into the plastic ceiling that's a ramp issue and not you.

Ahh, yes, I forgot about bonus x on the top lanes, thanks for reminding me.

Got to spend some time to work on the the machine this evening. I am happy to report that some tweaks have the game playing fantastic! Here is what I did.

1. Raise the lower flipper angle by quite a bit above the alignment holes. Easier to hit the center ramp and easier to trap up, big improvement.
2. Replace Titan flipper rubber with Perfect Play, just my personal preference.
3. Adjust the ship post, it was binding on the playfield hole. Happy to report that the washer to prevent the spring from jumping above the e-clip was installed by the factory.
4. Raise playfield angle, around 7.0 near the ramps, ~6.5 degrees at the flippers. Must have some sag in the PF.
5. Adjusted the scoop eject hood so that ejected ball does not center drain. (it would do this at most any pulse setting, I had it barely kicking out to prevent this previously).
6. Cleaned and waxed the PF, quite a bit faster now and my combos are beating the timer. Previously ball was a hair too slow and combo timed out.
7. Added some thickness to the inlane guide by layering thick tape on the inside to eliminate ball hop. The mounting holes for the guide clearly are not centered with the artwork on the PF, but that does reinforce the theory that the mounting holes were drilled a bit low.

I'll have to get in touch with AP regarding the ramp flaps and lock-down bar, but otherwise loving this game!

image (resized).jpeg

Too late!

Too early!

You guys are killing me! I'll check the top entry post and the above plastic to see if the ball is hitting either. When I take the glass off I'll take that top clear plastic off and say a prayer that I don't send a ball flying through the air testing it.

I did try setting the power up to 27 (30 is max) and the shots that complete do feel better, but they don't complete more often.

RandomRetro - all I want is my shots to feel like yours looked. Sometimes they do. More often then not it's "and....no." And I consider myself pretty good at on-the-fly shots. I can do 20+ loops on No Fear, but can't make two ship ramps shots here.

I hear you. Have had similar shot issues on other games. Try using slow motion picture on you phone too if you can to get a real good view on the balls action.

I'll be interested to see if the balls go flying with the plastic off!

I would bet the balls will go flying without the plastic. Recommend keeping that beautiful magic glass away from the game during your test!

I can guarantee they will. The plastic is there for a reason, lol.

Can someone help with the shooter rod spring size? Couldn't find it listed in the manual and am needing to order a replacement. TIA

Not sure about size, but I just replaced mine with the orange strength, made a big improvement over the stock (which I believe was green).

So spent this morning "tuning" my game with excellent results.

First thing I did was pull the glass and used my phones digital level to adjust the right front leg a bit to improve the side to side unevenness.

My game had problems making the outside loops and the most right hand shot into the shooting lane .

The loops rattled and rejected. The right most shot , when made with speed, would hit the wood side rail of the shooter lane and bounce back into the playfield.

The side to side adjustment with the digital level helped the loops a bit. I then watched where the loop shots rattled. On the left side, the post to the upper left of the ramp target was a problem. Removed it totally (had removed the rubber on it earlier). this open up the entry into the left orbit. Adjusted the steel metal guide rails, on the ends, in the left loop a bit with needle nose. There were two adjusted.

On the right loop , also watched where the rattles were and adjusted two metal guide rail ends where the rattles occurred . basically opened up the line of travel a few thousandths.

On the most right hand shot. I was going to adjust the metal ball guide , but for now, just put a piece of rubber on the wooden shooter lane rail where the ball struck to cushion the blow so that the ball does not bounce back onto the playfield. The ball now just drops into the shooter lane as designed.

Overall results were pretty dramatic. Both loops are made significantly more often and the right side shot does what it is supposed to do.

Had my best score yet and already seen parts of the game I have not seen before.

Overall this game needs a little more love out of the box. Part of the problem with the loop rejects is the thickness of the metal side rails. Since the game has hi quality /thicker side rails the clunkiness occurs. A few tweeks with the needle nose make a big difference.

No offense, but that should be fixed then...AP only has 4 games out

I need to take the glass off and do the same...The rattle and rejects on the left and right outside orbit shots are killing me.

You are right...Plays much better at 7 degrees...I re-leveled, added a little power to the flippers via menu: 2 to lower left and right flippers, and 1 to upper left flipper...Game was scorching, less rejects and flow for days.

How does the Valkyrie work again? 5 combos and it lights?

This game is highly addictive btw...Anyone that's on the fence, take the plunge...This game rules

Excellent

Yes every 5 combos you get a Valkyrie ( helmet on the display Lower left).
Use the Valkyrie during battle (2nd right flipper) to take away the next shot.
Exception - dearg due is defeated by a Valkyrie, so that basically gives you completion, 5 million bonus and a random battle that starts right away.
Onward Viking!!!!